Roll running off track on my Summa

[Lynn Normington]

grit rollers need cleaning ?? just guessing Warren

Lynn

[Warren Beard]

quote Lynn:

grit rollers need cleaning ?? just guessing Warren

Lynn

which are grit rollers 🙄 😳

[Lynn Normington]

you know the bit’s that hold the vinyl down, unless your plotter doesn’t have them 🙄

Lynn

[Tim Painter]

Pinch Rollers are the top ones which are spring loaded, The grit is the lower one that has the knurled rough area.

[Matt Boyd]

this happens to me on my trusty old camm1 cx 24. i don’t have grit rollers on the bottom, just 2 pinch rollers, 1 either side of the machine. i had to run off 2 x 5ft cut shapes the other day and the first 2 tries was a disaster! first try it didn’t line up correctly due to the length and ended up going ski wiff! the second try it ran off again and bunched up and ruined the material! i’ve tried putting g clamps on the outer edge of the roll of material, but its not 100 percent. i managed to do the 2 x 5ft lengths though…….i actually held the material and as it ran out as the blade was cutting the shape i just put slight pressure on one side to make sure it stayed straight, worked a treat! maybe that will help you mate?? worth a try!

[Ian Muir]

as been said… pinch rollers = rubber rollers on top… grit roller = metal engineered knurled thingy on bottom…

they need occasional care, if material ruins off after you put it in straight then they do need care

Pinch rollers either change or take off and lightly sand till rough…

Grit roller bungs up wif glue so take a spark plug brush (copper) to it or dig shit out with end of a scalpel…

Ian :lol1:

[Karl Williams]

When you pull the lever to lower the pinch rollers they turn a square bar at the back to ensure all the pinch rollers go down level. If the nylon plastics that hold the bar are worn the rollers won’t have the same tension at either end. This will cause the vinyl to skew in the plotter.

Just my input from experience. 😉

[Warren Beard]

Just thought I would update this thread,

It seems like it might have been the grit rollers as I gave those a good clean and it seems to be tracking well again on 5m lengths.

I think I have a humidity problem as well though as I think that is why the vinyl puckers up when on the machine between the pinch rollers for a minute, seems worse on the black too.

Will keep you posted

Thanks all

Warren

[Martin Pearson]

Where does your plotter live Warren ? I get the same sort of problem with vinyl when it’s cold in the unit and always thought it was down to the temperature rather than humidity, can’t say I have noticed it being worse with black though.

[Chris Wool]

quote :

I think I have a humidity problem as well though as I think that is why the vinyl puckers up when on the machine between the pinch rollers for a minute, seems worse on the black too.

correct and will vary between makes as well

chris

[Warren Beard]

Cutter is in my lounge 😳 and vinyl in the spare room which would be slightly cooler as it is next to the garage which is cool. Also only noticed it happening recently since the temp has gone down a bit. I also have only recently started using Metamark vinyl so a difference there to. I think all are playing a part in it but today I was cutting quiet a few 5m lengths and no problems at all so hopefully most of the problem was dirty grit rollers.

I have to say though the Summa is a fantastic machine, it took 2.5 years before I needed to change the blade and now cleaned the grit rollers for the first time 😳 and it’s never missed a beat.

Cheers

Warren

[Warren Beard]

me again, well I thought it was solved but it’s still running off 👿 I seem to remember it started doing this after (or because of) a vinyl crash, the vinyl came out the roller and got chewed up in the machine, I’m thinking something might have got bent or something as I have tried so many things and nothing solves it.

Anybody else had this problem and can anybody recommend somebody who can come out and fix/service it?

cheers

Warren

[Phill Fenton]

Our old summa used to track 5M without a problem. Nowadays it struggles to track 3M accurately due to its age. The usual problem with these machines is that the rollers become distorted over time. When not in use ensure the media clamp is off which takes the tension of the wheels. Once they become flattened the tracking is affected. The answer is to change the wheels and leave the media clamp off when not in use. Cleaning the grit rollers also helps.

I have also found that 751 series cast Oracal (which is very shiney/slippery) tracks less well then a calendered vinyl such as 551 or 651 Oracal

[Kevin Flowers]

Warren
i have had Summa cutters for coming on to 6 years, when mine start to track badly i clean the pinch rollers with meths or IPA. DON’T rub the grit rollers with anything that shreds easily as the teeth will get clogged or try to use a wire brush on them, in fact i don’t think i have ever cleaned mine in 6 years. If cleaning the pinch rollers doesn’t cure it then i fit new pinch rollers which normally cures the problem in my case, they do become hard with time.Also bear in mine most Summas come with a 3 year warranty so at a push get in touch with the supplier. I don’t think your crash would have done any problems Summas are very strong cutters

Kev

[Chris Wool]

phil said that better than i would.

one thing i have noticed on my grahtec is if the pinch rollers are close to the edge within 3 -4 mm it tracks poorly. further in all is well.

on the old graphtec i changed the pinch wheels after 10 years and it gave it a new lease of life.

chris

[John Childs]

Whatever happened to sprockets? Never any tracking problems with them. 😕

[Warren Beard]

Thanks guys, I always leave the clamps up when not in use so seem to think maybe they do need replacing to give it "a new lease on life" :lol1:

Even when I move the clamps in so not near the edge it does it, I have run the clamps close to the edges to give me 595mm cutting width for the last 3 years with no problems so it’s not that, as mentioned I am also using new vinyl but tried another vinyl and it did the same so I am now pretty sure your suggestion of hardened rollers could be the answer.

Any ideas where to get spares? and is it something easy to fit or do I need somebody to do it for me to be safe?

I think next month my Summa turns 3 years old.

cheers

Warren

[Warren Beard]

just been doing a few more tests and the roll of vinyl is actually moving sideways for sure, I stuck some tape up against the edge of the roll guide (the sleeve bit the roll sits in on either side on the back rollers) and after cutting a 2200mm length the whole roll and guides etc had moved about 2mm away from the tape.

Do you think the vinyl being pulled through skew would force the vinyl roll to slide across? Or do you think maybe when the roll turns it is somehow making the roll slide which in turn is forcing the vinyl skew through the cutter?

Sorry I know it’s only speculation from your part if you have not had this happen but would like to hear opinions.

I’m going to try find a spares supplier so see what they know.

cheers

Warren

[John Childs]

Warren,

This is going to be difficult to explain coherently, but our old Summa used to have a pair collars that fitted into the end of the vinyl roll. These had a larger diameter than a full roll of vinyl and so the vinyl didn’t sit on the feed rollers, rather the collars did. Then there were two rings on one of the feed rollers that could be moved up to the collar and clamped into place. That stopped the vinyl roll from moving sideways.

To be honest, I never understood the theory, and how it could be beneficial to hold the vinyl roll rigid if it was even slightly askew and likely to feed through at an angle, but it did work, and improved tracking no end.

Our current Mimakis have a similar facility, although much simplified from the Summa one, consisting simply of collars that you place either side of the vinyl roll and tighten down to restrict sideways movement. As photo.

[Alan Drury]

At one time my Summa tracked badly and this was eventually solved by changing the pinch rollers. When the vinyl jams it can put a ‘flat’ on these resulting in poor tracking. If you have tried everything else these rollers should get a closer inspection.
Alan D

[Warren Beard]

Thanks Guys, John, mine are slightly different to that as you might be aware, I have a flange that goes in to the ends of the core and these sit in a slotted guide (so does not actually sit on the roller but in the guide which is on the roller)

I spoke to the company I bought it from and they said it might not be level and the larger rolls are sliding "downhill" I checked with a level and moved the machine around the room but still the same problem with any sized roll.

Anyway i called them back and they are getting Artsystems to give me a call as it’s still under warranty as they had no other suggestions.

I’ll update the post once I have news.

Thanks for your help and suggestions.

cheers

Warren

[Phill Fenton]

What you’re saying makes sense Warren.

My machine was more than 10 years old before I had to replace the rubber roller wheels – so 3 years is not a long time – perhaps the fault lies elsewhere. (They’re expensive too).

As John says – our Summa also came with collars that fasten into the vinyl core tubes and raises the vinyl off the large metal cylindrical rolls. (I tend to not use these myself but they should improve the tracking).

If as you say, the vinyl roll is moving sideways across the steel cylindrical rollers, then it seems more likely to be these that are at fault. I would check they are clean and free running as well as level.

Let us know how you get on if you eventually get to the bottom of it.

[Michael Potter]

Hi Warren
The guides that the flanges track in have a rubber ring on them that causes the friction to keep the guides in place if those rubber rings have split that may contribute to your problem as the guides are then free to move with little to no Resistance. Mine split after about 3 years so it may be worth a look.
cheers Mike 🙂

[Warren Beard]

After talking to Artsystems they are going to get back to me, I think there is a good chance it is the rubber rings holding the guides as they are cracked and the guides are not so tight on the roller anymore like they used to be. To back this up further when I put a light roll of about 3 meters on it doesn’t have enough weight to make the roller turn and just slips in the guide and then the tracking is much better.

I’ll see what Artsystems say and suggest.

cheers

Warren

[Michael Potter]

Hi Warren
I am just being nosey. Did you find out what the problem was /is.
cheers Mike

[Warren Beard]

Hi Mike

I never updated the thread as I am not 100% sure it is resolved but is much better it seems.

Artsystems were very good so am happy with them.

They changed the O-rings but that made no difference and we all thought it would, we had tried new pinch rollers and many other things to try resolve the issue but nothing helped.

Eventually we decided to put on a new roller, not the one with the guides but the back one, this seemed to practically solve the problem but cannot explain why, I haven’t done any long cut jobs since but is fine so far and hope it stays this way.

It used to run 100% true up to 5 – 8 meters, now might be out by about 1mm over 3 – 5 meters (was going out 1mm for every meter)

Cheers

Warren

[Doug Pulver]

Warren,

I’ve got a Summa D60 and every now and then it tracks the vinyl right off the rollers.

I’ve tried this and it helps. If you have a long run to do, load the vinyl in the plotter. Let the plotter do it’s thing and then manually run the vinyl out and back the length of the total cut. This will help keep it on track.

Doug

[Warren Beard]

quote Doug Pulver:

Warren,

I’ve got a Summa D60 and every now and then it tracks the vinyl right off the rollers.

I’ve tried this and it helps. If you have a long run to do, load the vinyl in the plotter. Let the plotter do it’s thing and then manually run the vinyl out and back the length of the total cut. This will help keep it on track.

Doug

Hi Doug

Yes this is what i did to get around the problem but the fact of the matter is the machine is less than 3 years old and still under warranty, these machines should run for many more years than this before a problem like this should arise. They can;t expect you to always do this when the machine should just work properly, yes if it was many more years older but not an under 3 year old machine.

It seems sorted for now so I hope it is resolved and I have many more years of a great machine as many other Summa owners can verify.

Thanks anyway Doug

Cheers

Warren

[Kevin Flowers]

Warren
i have 2 Summa’s a 610 & 1220, had the same problems Art Systems all but built the 1220 for the same reasons you have again about 2 years old. It still throws the occasional problem but i now put it down to the vinyl, rushed loading or not enough clearance back or front of the machine because certain vinyls don’t fold/roll properly on longer runs as it feeds through. My machines are a lot older than yours now but still run well. I normally limit cuts to max of 3 or 4 mts i don’t see the point of handling anything longer than that in one length.

Kev