Replacing Acrylic Panels in frame

[Stuart Miller]

Can anyone help with my enquiry about framing panels?
I’ve heard about wind loading sucking out panels. What is thjere to look for and how do you guard against this?

[Robert Lambie]

i dont like jobs like this. by that i mean a patch up job.
Ide rather just take the whole fascia sign/box down and fit with a new panatrim style frame sign with composite, or a folded pan sign from composite.

you will get acrylic from places like Amari Plastics or Europoint. you can get it cut to size also.
use tensol or similar to glue the hanging strip along the top. again, not a route ide take, but thats just me.
Trouble you will have is sagging of the original box or it not sitting even. here you will see panels not closing flush at the joins and more.

[Stuart Miller]

Thanks for the reply Rob>
I can see that problem.
Also there does not seem to be a hanging strip so the frame only has a 5mm slot all around.
What about the wind suction?
cheers

[Andy Thorne]

Normally if a box is over a 1000mm high it should have a "storm bead" retaining bead of around 50mm on the face to help (most of the time) prevent suck out. Below that I believe the standard 25-30mm face bead is ok. My concern would be if you are adding more weight (i.e.acrylic heavier than foam) into a sign which you may not be sure how is fixed or how potentially rotten any wooden fascia it is fitted to behind is. (not trying to scare you off – just raising a point)

[Phill Fenton]

If my understanding is correct – the owner doesn’t want the sign to light up as the old electrics are no longer working? In which case why not use Foamalux Ultra instead of Acrylic? This is a bit lighter and easier to cut as well as being less costly but still has a gloss white finish similar to acrylic. I’m sure half the time when customers specify acrylic they simply mean plastic and do not know the difference between PVC and acrylic. Being non illuminated means it will be less problematical to close up the gap. The norm with illuminated signs is to use rebates on the edges to provide a degree of overlap when the panels are closed up but you can simply fasten strips to the back of the panels to hold them together without having to worry about reducing the amount of light passing through the panels since they won’t be lit up anyway. Hanging strips are a must to prevent the panels from bowing or being sucked out

[Martin Pearson]

I was going to post earlier & then got side tracked 😆

Was thinking along similar lines to Phill, if the customer isn’t going to use it as a lightbox then does it really need to be acrylic? You have used ACM in these before so why not the same again.
As Phill has said often customers don’t really know what they want or what is the best material to use so just ask for what they think should be used based on a google search or what someone else has told them.
Have you had one of the end panels off ? If all you have done is looked at the front of the box then all you will see is the slot the panels fit into, without removing an end panel you won’t be able to see what arrangement there is for a hanging strip. Previous signmaker may have just slid panels in without bothering to fit one or knowing one should be fitted, have seen that done a few times.

[Stuart Miller]

Thanks Guys
Quite agree on the Acrylic maybe not best when not to be lit up. I was led away from ACM as the frame channel is 5mm so thought 3mm composite would be loose in it.
When the customer has the lease organised we will be going to do a more in depth survey to see what is behind the panels and testing the wood and fixings.
I just did a quick removal of one end panel of the frame and slid one panel out. Could see there was no hanging strip and the frame just had a 5mm wide slot which is 20mm deep. The frame is 810mm high.
The old boards that are in are 5mm foam board.
Not heard of Foamalux Ultra, Phil, I’ll look into that. Think the price will also lead him towards foam or Composite,

[Martin Pearson]

Stuart if the panels didn’t have a hanging strip that was more than likely because who ever replaced the original acrylic panels with foam didn’t know that one was needed. I have seen it a few times & also spoken with other signmakers who had no idea that one should really be fitted.
Foamalux ultra I believe is a little denser than most standard foam boards having less air in it 😆 😆 Long time since I have bought foam now that I am doing a lot less work & mainly vehicle graphics.

3mm composite should be fine as it is far more rigid than foam although as Robert has already said I would be for removing the old lightbox completely & fitting new sign either in a panatrim/eurotrim frame or a composite sign tray 😆 😆

[Phill Fenton]

quote Stuart Miller:

Not heard of Foamalux Ultra, Phil, I’ll look into that.

Foamalux Ultra is a foamboard but with a gloss finish instead of Mat

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[Stuart Miller]

Another question on this,
if decide to use 3mm composite material how would you stop the boards rattling in a 5mm frame channel ?

[Joe Killeen]

Seen as its not perspex you would not have the issues of expanding and extracting so you could remove the trim and fix through the face of the panel and re-fit the trim or stick 2mm to the rear of the composite.
Joe

[Justin Atkins]

If it’s a standard dualcase box, the trim will push back to hold a 3mm panel, you’d just re-drill through the trim bead to hold it in the new position. Or as above, bond some 2" square 2mm packers to the outside edge of the back of the composite every 2ft or so.

[Stuart Miller]

Thanks again

[Jamie Hunt]

If i use panels I would go with the dibond or Ibond from Amari Plastics ( as said earlier a lot of customers dont know the new materials so they always say acrylic) and i find this joint works best ive changed the colour on one panel to show which joint goes to which panel overhead projection view