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Repair , dump , or buy a bleeding edge machine?
My PC60 has blown another head , it has done sterling work in the past but is costing us a fortune in ribbon and repairs
We have a Soljet and can do all full colour work on it and even printing gold and silver on colours isnt a problem as we print the colour on gold or silver foils
We used the PC for small runs , badges etc and it’s mostly a “legacy” machine , like repeat jobs of what we have done before for a customer. We can achieve more or less the same effects with the Soljet , but not *quite* the same.
Gonna cost me 600 quid to repair . If I sell it with a blown head , I wont get more than 800 -900 quid. We do have a real Dog of a thermal printer the pnc 5000 which will use the same cart refills and can do the occasional “must be the same as before” type thing. (untill *it’s* head dies )
Thing is , I dunno whether to flog the pc 60 , repair it and continue using it , use it as a doorstopper and keep it “just in case” or buy another type of machine.
Its called a Busjet pro , it can print at 2880x 720 using a sort of solvent/uv curable ink on ANYTHING 1m x 330mm x (wait for it) 120mm thick!!!. It prints on curved and rough surfaces and can print directly to pens , promo items , wood , foamex , glass , tiles , acrylic , metals, fabric etc.
You do have to precoat the items with a specialised ink receptive coating. Cost of inks and coatings are not that appreciable , it would work out at about 3 quid a sq meter , so something like a full colour print on a pen would be around 1/5th of a pence to print or an a4 graphic on a ceramic tile , round 18 pence.
Machine cost 5 grand , comes with a yrs guarantee , spare head , installation , inks , coatings etc, heads are Epsons , machine is made in Korea.
I have seen output on foams , tiles and some acrylic that has a peak and valley surface. The foamex had beveled edges and the machine printed on the bevel !!!!
Thing is , this is real bleeding edge stuff , local representatives don’t have a demo machine , they requires all money up front and I would be a sort of local guinea pig. I’m a little worried about backup and service , tho the Co is very reputable. There will undoubtedly be issues that come up (how durable is print , albeit on the samples I saw it was very good – the tile looked even better than dye sub stuff and it was impervious to damage)
I do a huge amount of promo branding and the ability to lets say put clocks or lighters or stuff that could only be done with a pad printer in this and get instant output is wonderful for this industry , the ability to print directly to wood , metals etc is also a boon. Prints directly to fabrics too and one can do stuff like cellphone covers etc. Width is a concern as its only 33cm? (width of super a3) as is the fact that you need to precoat the item
I would imagine that for real durability , one would need to post coat with a liquid lam (like a pen thats being handled a lot)We are going to a local show called Markex for 3 days at the end of this month which caters for the promo/advertising type industry , I could have the machine by then and be doing stuff on the show , which would blow a lot of the other exhibitors and attendees minds!! The money isnt that much of an issue , as I would buy it with personal funds
Thing is , what do I do , repair my PC60 , dump it , flog it ,or take the risk and buy this “wunderkind” type machine?
Some specs on the machine at http://www.bellcoinc.com and at http://www.busjet.co.kr
Lemme know what you think please. -
5 Replies
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hi rodney
your right about the print of small text on the pc 60 it is just that bit better than most and i find it difficult to ween some customers off the pc stickers hence still got mine .£200 a head fitt your self or in the uk send 200 roland carts back for a free one from whot yove said in the past you should be alright with the fitting got the info if you want.
intresting the other printer tho big discount to be the first ?????.
chris
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Hard choice mate. This is not a case of the normal, “getting into digital so go for the best”, more buy what is needed for the existing customers.
Edge is undoubtedly a great machine with many things going for it, but it is double the price of a pc600. If the pc600 is only needed to cater for existing customer, or specific work, &…. Does it very well with a good return. Why change? Why pay double? (I only see long term benefits, but saying that, not being an edge user I maybe ignorant to the obvious))
Ok, lower running costs, faster printing, but if not running long lengths of stuff, it’s very much a stand over it changing ribbons etc. I say this with the idea that you will use it for very small multicolour labels and the like. So even when say a short run of badges gets printed, ribbon changes, you still have to lift out and load again to contour cut. (Not slagging this machine, just “I imagine” labouring job unless very long runs of small decals)
The pc600 although high running costs, obviously makes you good money, it runs itself, changing ribbons etc and cuts, then stops… job done!
Why not buy another pc600 if you plan to shell out? Sell the old one cheap for fast sale, or trade it in with Roland rep against a new machine… or say at Roland rep, after buying a few machines you want good discount or you shop elsewhere! You could get a brand new pc600 and save about £1500 on discount and sale of old machine? There would be no, new training required as its same machine but newer version.On another note, the new type of machine you talk about sounds right up your street.
I know from looking at your work, this could open many new product ideas/possibilities for you & costs about the same as the pc600.
Being the first and the rep not having his own machine is a bit of a duff start though.
Being the guinea pig is never a nice feeling & you’re always waiting on probs arising.
We were the first company in the UK with a PC60, infact we ended up with Roland’s own demo machine until ours arrived.
Anyway… my choice would probably be the new machine, as it will do the existing work, aswell as the possibilites of other doors opening for you. The downside is obviously, the possibilities of hidden costs, maintenance & after sales problems.
Then again there may not be any.
Buying the pc600 new again… well you know what it does & can do, no training and back to business, downside is a few grand updating it again.
The edge will do all you existing work. “faster & cheaper on long term” but new ground, training, and possibly more labouring.” (Only my view)
It’s double the cost for one though… and how long would it be before you recoup the outlay? I don’t know your volume of work so maybe quick?Anyway.. ill stop going on, I tend to rabble… 😳 :lol1:
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Robert , essentially I have to decide to get rid of thermal printing alltogether. The edge wont do what I want and I would be loathe to invest in one.
I have put in the order for this new machine , after speaking to the european distributors who rave about it (big co , had one for a while , knows the issues etc) and albeit they know they wont get a sale from it , advised me to go for it. They distribute NUR’s , mimaki , aftermarket inks etc and the chap I spoke to was forthright etc.
Thier price is 13 000 euros for this machine and mine has dropped since this last post to about 7 300. (including enough inks to do 300 sq meters etc)
It would compliment my exisiting setup and would expand my abilities rather than just do what I already do.
I worked out that to print a 2″ x 1/2″ image on a pen would cost in the region of a 1/4 pence (using the 2x : 1/2 rule IE x advertised cost by 2 and 1/2 rated speed) and an a4 pic directly onto a tile is around 75 pence . Im sure at these levels and with the ability to print directly I can recoup quick , I would probably charge around 10-15 pence a pen on quantities of 1000+ for full colour graphics. This thing prints on curved surfaces , so small images on golf balls , lighters etc shouldnt be a problem. Whats more , printing directly to metals and shaped items will be a major boon for stuff like badges , keytags etc. What is even more exciting is the ability to print directly to fabrics , like ribbons
We get a huge demand for full colour logos on lanyards , medal ribbons and so forth , we screen these in one or 2 colours but its an expensive and messy process , hopefully this will streamline things. Only problem , as with all inkjets , is white. I’ll do a review on it when we have it up and running. Its basically like an instant sublimation machine without the need for heat presses etc and the ability to do stuff that cant be done in a heat press or screened or pad printed.
Im of the opinion that signage is moving to the printing side of things at a rapid rate and that machines like this are the beginning of the end for a lot of traditional processes like screening , pad printing , dye sub and in some respects ordinary printing. Im going to be on the bleeding edge here , but I feel that the rewards might well seriously eclipse the risks. -
quote Rodney Gold:Im of the opinion that signage is moving to the printing side of things at a rapid rate and that machines like this are the beginning of the end for a lot of traditional processes like screening , pad printing , dye sub and in some respects ordinary printing.Screen printing is far too versatile, I don’t ever see the end of screenprinting, it can actually do anything at a cost which is unrivalled by other methods, things come and go, screen printing is here to stay, simplicity wins everytime with this process and if you feel the need for hugely complex designs with four colour process it can do it too.
Intricate printing to textiles doesn’t have to cost £50K for a secondhand Mimaki. -
I have a screen and pad printing section and already a lot of jobs I would have screened are being replaced by other methods. Screen printing is ubiquitous and relatively cheap to set up and yes , it does have certain advantages *now*. But as machinery becomes more capable , and consumable prices drop , digital methodology will take over. Customers require flexibility , just in time manufacturing , higher quality and don’t wish to hold more stocks. Much like Hifi , the convenience of CD spelled the death knell for tapes and records , and MP3’s and high bandwidth internet is sounding the death knell for optical music storage.
Printing on demand is the way to go here. Essentially , machines like the grenadier , busjet , flatbeds etc are all eating into the traditional process markets and will eventually dilute them.
There will always be a demand for other processes , due to costs , speed, specalitiy printing or very high volume runs.
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