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Radio playing at work, More money grabbers!!
Hi fellow sign-makers!
Just on Monday I got a phone call. English guy who asked if I was the owner. I said yes & he admitted that the call was recorded for training & reference purposes.
The music was on softly in the background.
"I’m from the Performing Right Society, what music do you listen to I the office?" he asked.
Radio 1 through the PC I replied.
How many are in the business?
Just the two of us.
Turns out that I’ve been braking the law playing music in my little office.
He’s signed me up for an eternal £85 + vat per year.
The forms have arrived but I’ve yet to send the dosh!Anyone else in the same boat?
What if I used headphones?
Philip
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40 Replies
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My understanding is that you cannot play music in public without having to pay royalties. However, If the music was playing in your office (i.e not in public area) then I can’t see that you are breaking any law. If you were, then sales reps and all company vehicles fitted with radios should be subject to this same rip off – er…. I mean fee.
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Have a look at the FSB’s forum on this subject – http://www.fsb.org.uk/discuss
Plenty on this "hot potato" and also the "getty corbis" issue that’s stinging many many people.
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quote Philip Houston:Hi fellow sign-makers!Just on Monday I got a phone call. English guy who asked if I was the owner. I said yes & he admitted that the call was recorded for training & reference purposes.
The music was on softly in the background.
“I’m from the Performing Right Society, what music do you listen to I the office?” he asked.
Radio 1 through the PC I replied.
How many are in the business?
Just the two of us.
Turns out that I’ve been braking the law playing music in my little office.
He’s signed me up for an eternal £85 + vat per year.
The forms have arrived but I’ve yet to send the dosh!Anyone else in the same boat?
What if I used headphones?
Philip
tell him to pi** off and call chris moyles….
cheeky git,
(:)
roffs -
the prs is a privately run body, ask them to visit your site and verify that you need to pay royalties,
they do try and intimidate people, but as far as I know, they have no standing as far as making you pay.Peter
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Yes they are having a massive call out at the moment mainly hitting larger offices, hairdressers etc…..just remember "Dont tell em your name Pike!!"
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My God….i thought I lived in an over regulated country!
I’d tell him that since your conversation you have decided to no longer listen to the radio and that you now have a huge supply of cd’s in your office. Of course these would all be purchased through legal channels…no sneaky down loads.
think I’ll stay in NZ after all. -
Unfortunately they still get you for this too. Anything other than personal use requires a public license from the performing rights society as they are the money grabbing authority for the music industry. You cant even get round it by playing royalty free music.
Personally I thing its unjustified money grabbing, the way to fight back is send them an advertising bill. People don’t buy signs from you based on the music you play therefor no justification for for paying the excess license fee. At the very least you might be forced into getting a BBC radio license!!! (hot) (hot)
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I filled up with Diesel on my way home from work tonight. It cost me more than 90 quid. But what really irks me is that more than half of that is tax. I have to pay 45+ quid to the government every time I need to fuel my van in order to go about my daily business trying to earn a living.
British gas have today raised prices by 35%!
I find it astonishing that a country like Britain that is fortunate to be rich with natural resources (coal, oil and North sea gas) is "apparently" being fleeced by the worlds reliance on oil. If we didn’t have oil and gas reserves how much worse would it be!! The truth is we are being lied to by our politicians.
Why aren’t the people of Britain marching towards parliament with the intention of lynching all the incompetents that are trying to run this country. 🙄
£85 + VAT (the Vat portion being yet more tax of course) a year to the PRS to allow me to listen to music at work is beginning to look like a bargain 🙄
…oops sorry – I’m moaning again 😳
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if two people is the truith then thats a bargain
we wont be inviting PRS to turn upthere is another thread on this here, also PRS have been featured on West Country News..
And yes we paid it.
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i posted about this before, yes it is for real and yes they can hit you with a fine.
quick-fit got hit for about £200,000 for several of its depots…
AOL has been hit for millions apparently because its Internet radio channel is available in the UK.
The list goes on…i watched it on breakfast TV just a few weeks ago… a mechanic that worked alone in his garage was charged £200 because although he works alone, when his customers come in to pick up their car keys, they can hear his radio. and yes… he did have to pay for this reason only…
we were being asked for about £700 "i think"… i know they quote a couple of hundred for the girls in the office but we have 4 units all with radios and various number of staff in each, so we were getting multiples but were told it was discounted. (very good of them eh?) anyway… as i said in previous post, we did not pay it and removed the radios. although most of the staff now walk about with an i-pod ear bit in…
2 or 3 months past and in walked the rep/officer to find out if we had radios playing…
you can imagine the smug look on our face when we told him to beat-it!at the end of the day, they still win out because we now don’t use radios at work… maybe we will eventually bend to it and pay up. but for now they are onto plums… 🙄
.
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One of the benefits of being located in the country is that there are plenty of places to hide a body. Our local council are still looking for their smoking compliance inspector.
A good plan is to neatly fold all their clothes and leave them on a beach somewhere. If you can get a cheap canoe from eBay and leave that in the area as well, so much the better. 😀
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this may sound strange, but we need to find ‘free artists’ that would be willing to play music for free, artists that sign something to disclaim sometihng, then make "workers radio" to fight back. Advertising would pay for the radio staton.
So, whos going on Drums, lead guitar and who’s got a singing voice?
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we heard about PRS getting nasty, what about the other one PPL?
I just saw this on their website
http://www.ppluk.com/ppl/ppl_lf.nsf/PDFs/$file/LicenceInformationSheetPPO.pdfHere is the PRS stuff
http://www.mcps-prs-alliance.co.uk/SiteCollectionDocuments/PPS%20Price%20Guides/Offices%20and%20Factories%20Price%20Guide.pdfhttp://www.mcps-prs-alliance.co.uk/SiteCollectionDocuments/PPS%20Tariffs/Tariff%20I.pdf
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We had this a few years ago I asked the staff if they would like to share the cost of the license was promptly told no so I got rid of the radios and I am now a tight so & so especialy from new starters who bring their radio in and I have to tell them to remove it or pay for the license
:banghead:
and so it goes
all the best
roger -
If that means that I have to pay a fee just in case a member of public hears what I am playing on the radio……………does that mean I can now sue for noise pollution from establishments that are licensed and I don’t want to hear it 🙄 🙄 🙄
I can understand pubs, clubs and public facing retail paying up, but factories and offices. Im sure there will be a loophole there somewhere…….No wonder Londons LBC is popular………no music!!
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slightly off topic but someone from my dog school made a compilation video of some of our dogs….dubbed music over it an posted it on Youtube using my dog schools account………….then I got an email from the music copyright holder warning me about it 😮 Talk about big brother!
John
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Here are two applications that tie together internet radio stations and up and coming artists that don’t have any copyright / royalty stipulations on listening to their songs. They’ll probably try to come up with a reason to charge for these as well though.
Banshee:
http://banshee-project.org/Songbird
http://getsongbird.com/ -
Lyndsay has a friend who has been battling with Getty Images for the past year over images on her website. They were digitally tagged and rather than a simple warning to remove, she was sent a bill for about £2500. Its all too easy for the big companies to look after their property…….
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Huh (?) (?) (?)
Tell them that the only music in your establishment is you playing your own compositions on the lute. -
quote Graeme Harrold:Lyndsay has a friend who has been battling with Getty Images for the past year over images on her website. They were digitally tagged and rather than a simple warning to remove, she was sent a bill for about £2500. Its all too easy for the big companies to look after their property…….I use ‘istock’ images not getty, even though i think theyre tied together as iStock advertise getty on their site. You can use images for sites etc with no comeback and if you pay the extended license for images, you can print upto 500,000 images royalty free!! the extended license is typically £75. There’s some incredible images there and ive contacted them personally to double, triple, quadruple check that I can print with out any bad comebacks. They always say "yes" that I can print as many as i want but after 500,000 then we have to talk again !!!!! Id love to print 500,000 prints of whatever, then Ill gladly pay extra royalties :):)
As for the PRS, sadly its true as has been said above many time. We dont have the radio on anymore, to be honest its actually better because the radio just plays the same tunes over and over if its BBC, and local radio just repeat the same adverts every 6 seconds! Theres only so many tacky radio ad’s you can take. Tell your staff that the lovely sound of cutters, pressers, fabrication, sticky vinyl being ripped off and the "wholesome" sound of the boss shouting "work harder – need money – work harder" is better than any drivel on the radio – and they get to keep their job if they hit targets :):)
Does anyone have any magic "work" pixies that come in the night and do jobs for you? I cant find them on eBay or google! strange that 🙂
Dave. (the shouting boss)
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How does this work then? is it based on the amount of staff you have working for you rather than the amount of customers who come through the doors??……If it’s the amount of staff then who do I lay off? Tea boy or wife?? Ah well, hope the tea boy can cook!!! lol
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quote Steve Bird11:who do I lay off? Tea boy or wife?? lol
Get rid of the wife.
The amount of sex stays the same, it’s just that the washing builds up. 😀
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quote John Childs:quote Steve Bird11:who do I lay off? Tea boy or wife?? lol
Get rid of the wife.
The amount of sex stays the same, it’s just that the washing builds up. 😀
why, is there something going on with the tea boy we dont know about john? 😕 :lol1:
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quote Robert Lambie:quote John Childs:quote Steve Bird11:who do I lay off? Tea boy or wife?? lol
Get rid of the wife.
The amount of sex stays the same, it’s just that the washing builds up. 😀
why, is there something going on with the tea boy we dont know about john? 😕 :lol1:
yes, he ran off with Johns wife. :lol1:
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Interesting case here at the moment concerning the PRS and a major weekend music festival. The PRS threatened to oppose the license as the organisers owed them approx 400,000 from previous events. The organisers wanted to know why they should be paying on the double, (paying them to perform and also paying for the rights to the music)
The PRS allowed the festival to go ahead pending a future court case…….methinks they don’t want to go there……..legal precedents have been mentioned. 😮
Having run a music club and tangled with the PRS I could never understand why these guys looked for money from live venues, if a perfromer wants to cover a song, surely it is up to him to pay the royalty? And if he is playing his own music he is being paid for it. -
Any tinkerers or basement inventors here? Sounds as if you could make a mint in the UK with a device that turns off the sound system whenever someone opens the front door or rings the phone.
I’m just entertaining myself imagining what would happen if some guy with a clipboard walked into a shop of whatever sort where the classic rock/country&western/hip hop station was blasting here in the States and told the owner to pay up.:rofl: :shoot3: :rofl: :shoot3: :rofl:
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Home automation products would do the trick!
http://www.smarthome.com/_/index.aspx You could get an IR signal for when the door was opened that could either cut the power on the radio or if you wanted to rig something more sophisticated could adjust the volume. I think for the phone ringing trigger it would be easier if the radio was running through a computer. Then a script could be written that would "idle" (programming term for the computer handling a loop waiting for a situation to be true or false to branch to an action) which could mute the volume. I live in an extremely high crime area. One of my neighbors uses some of this type of stuff at home to turn lights and tv’s on and off at different intervals when she’s out of town.
I guess if you wanted to go lo tech you could just tie a string from the door to the power cable and have it pulled when the door opens. Rube Goldberg style.
I would just lie to them about listening to the radio and then bribe some neighborhood kids as look outs by the doors for the PRS goons. 😀
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The truth is, a portable radio can be played anywhere,
like on a beach, or in the street, or at work its yours and you can turn it off then there is no problem. If its played as background music and the "audience" have no control they may have a case.Like I said earlier, you can ask them to visit your premises to determine if you are holding a public performance or not.
Ask them if you need to pay royalties next time you have a barbie, and the neighbours overhear the music? Bunch of con men the lot of them,
By the way the Mechanic mentioned earlier won his case, and did NOT have to pay
Peter
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so is it possible to get hold of ipods with microphones/noise cancelling so the boss can shout at you?
ipods and machinery bothers me, get tangled up and that.
prs and classic music? i think a lot of classical artists have passed on?
i had wondered about broadcasts from non-music stations or artists willing to play music for free as a hobby etc or unsigned artists.
So what about Hit’s TV? I presume then I need a TV License, but do i need a pRS license?
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maybe a silly idea but what about background music. a cd? playing through a tanoid type system… same as b&q and the like but slightly more tasteful. 😀 beats dead silence 🙄
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Admit to nothing to anyone…..if they believe you are playing music they will nail you to the wall………we take things like this personally………to them you are just another number to improve their commission……these people have no thought for your well being at all, in fact they would happily close your business if they got something out of it…………we live in a country with some crazy mixed up ideas……
Just my opinion.
john
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i agree with you john… toruble is, these guys got the girls in our office… usual crap…
"if boss isnt around, could i ask… do you listen to music at work?"a quick giggle… "yes, course we do why?"
"oh really…. many work in that one office.?"
reply…
"3 of us, two full time one part time why?"NABBED! 😕 :lol1: :lol1: :lol1:
you know the rest….
just looked at this sort of thing… i plan sticking in a tanoid system if i can get a good price on them. if i do ill at least get some background music for the time being. this site gives you some variation to suit all… still not great i guess. 😕
http://www.musicbakery.com/.
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quote Robert Lambie:i agree with you john… toruble is, these guys got the girls in our office… usual crap…
“if boss isnt around, could i ask… do you listen to music at work?”a quick giggle… “yes, course we do why?”
“oh really…. many work in that one office.?”
reply…
“3 of us, two full time one part time why?”NABBED! 😕 :lol1: :lol1: :lol1:
you know the rest….
just looked at this sort of thing… i plan sticking in a tanoid system if i can get a good price on them. if i do ill at least get some background music for the time being. this site gives you some variation to suit all… still not great i guess. 😕
http://www.musicbakery.com/.
Nice music site, but you still need the license to play it to your staff/public
B@$T@RD$
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but intro music says pay once, use forever… royalty free music?
am i missing the obvious Graeme? 😕
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yep… nothing wrong with the idea.. except the fact the music will drive you nuts
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quote Robert Lambie:i agree with you john… toruble is, these guys got the girls in our office… usual crap…
“if boss isnt around, could i ask… do you listen to music at work?”a quick giggle… “yes, course we do why?”
“oh really…. many work in that one office.?”
reply…
“3 of us, two full time one part time why?”NABBED! 😕 :lol1: :lol1: :lol1:
you know the rest….
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Limited company? tell then that you are a £1 shell company and are happy to be shut down……..play these barstewards at their own game.
just my opinion.
john
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You know I was thinking, I thought radio stations got their revenue from the ads that they play. So essentially isn’t that why radio is broadcast over the air free of charge to listeners anyway? It shouldn’t matter how many people are listening to it, they all are supposedly listening to the adverts as well! Sounds a lot like a double tax on the same item if you ask me. It might be time to let some politicians that support this sort of thing know that they might be out of a job come election season.
Also would an XM satellite radio subscription get around this insane mafioso law?
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prob is, your Satellites are above you as you are far from us, I know we cant get any of them this side of the world.
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If you look at it from the flip side, we should be charging the artists a fee for broadcasting there songs! Thought that’s what advertisers do, we are advertising their material so we should charge them
or is that just me being silly?
Ian
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Thanks for pointing that out Dave. I wasn’t aware that XM didn’t have wider coverage.
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