Problem with details when cutting logos and text

[Martin Pearson]

If it happens when you cut small stuff then it is caused by the blade turning in the vinyl, easy to fix just select tangential mode on your plotter

[baron]

quote martin:

If it happens when you cut small stuff then it is caused by the blade turning in the vinyl, easy to fix just select tangential mode on your plotter

thanks Martin, but what is "tangential mode" and how do i set it, is it on the plotter or software, sorry i’m very new to this 😳

[Martin Pearson]

It’s on the plotter itself not in the software, if you are new to the boards it might be nice if you introduced yourself in the say hello forum, people on the boards are happy to help but it is nice to know who you are helping.

[baron]

😳 all taking care of in the newbie section.

Not sure how set it on the plotter, it seems very basic in the options that are available there is a reset, offline, pause and test button, and buttons for changing pressure and cutting speed, nothing for any advance settings

[Karl Williams]

If your using Flexi, there is a setting in the software for Drag Knife – Tangelical – Pen or Pounce. There should also be a setting for curve control.

[John Childs]

I don’t know the Rabbit cutters, but aren’t they cheap Chinese things? If so, they are unlikely to have tangential cutting.

The best bet would be to play around with the blade offset – if it is adjustable on Rabbits.

[Martin Pearson]

Baron, there you go bit more help for you, I didn’t know you could set it in the software.

Karl, I don’t use Flexi as I can’t afford it, I didn’t realise you could alter plotter settings like that in the software, I have always just selected my Graphtec plotter settings on the plotter itself using the plotters own menu.

[Karl Williams]

Signlab and Flexi do this. Not tried to do it in any other software though.

[baron]

quote KARL WILLIAMS:

If your using Flexi, there is a setting in the software for Drag Knife – Tangelical – Pen or Pounce. There should also be a setting for curve control.

Where abouts are these setting, above is all i can find within the cut/plot pages, and device settings for the cutter, just wish i found this site a few weeks ago to get ppl opinions on what cutter to get, feel like i’ve made a horrible choice.

[Martin Pearson]

I use inspire pro which is actually written by Scanvec prior to Flexi, I can change some settings in the production manager but not all of them.

[John Childs]

quote KARL WILLIAMS:

If your using Flexi, there is a setting in the software for Drag Knife – Tangelical – Pen or Pounce. There should also be a setting for curve control.

Karl,

What’s the point of changing that setting to tangential if the cutter doesn’t have tangential cutting capability (?) 😕

[Karl Williams]

Setup properties then job defaults. There are settings in there.

[Karl Williams]

John, I don’t know the cutter or its capabilites, I am only stating where the settings are in the software mate.

[baron]

Doh!! another brick wall, the cutter mustn’t support these settings as the software won’t open this page, as soon as you click it nothing 😥

[Karl Williams]

Have you set the blade in the software at the right angle?

[Martin Armitage]

I don’t know the rabbit, but could your blade holder be knackered
Mart.

[baron]

no, where can you set this? i’ve been looking through all the setting, but can’t find how to change it, there seems to be so little setting when this plotter is installed in the manager part

[Karl Williams]

I’ll have a look later. Shop is busy!

[baron]

Thanks Karl, I’ve just been on with the supplier again and he’s requested some pics, i’ll post them up here as well in case anyones ever seen anything like this, wrecking my head 😕

[Karl Williams]

Looks to me like your cutter in set to draw instead of cutting, or your blade holder is knackered! Did you say it does this on larger lettering as well?

[baron]

when i change it from draw to cut theres no difference, but as soon as i put the pen in its perfect, but i’ve only got the one blade holder, i’ll see if i can get another from the supplier to test, it does do it on larger graphics but no were near as bad, you could live with it on larger logos, and must ppl would never notice it.

Drawn with pen, all edges are sharp and crisp

[Chris Wool]

i would say that the vinyl is buckling whilst being cut and it still appears to be in pen mode whilst cutting.

chris

[John Childs]

I still think it’s blade offset.

[Karl Williams]

I think you’re right John.

[baron]

quote Chris Wool:

i would say that the vinyl is buckling whilst being cut and it still appears to be in pen mode whilst cutting.

chris

Is there anyway to stop the vinyl from buckling, should i loosen or tighten the rollers? i’ve unspooled some of the vinyl from the roll so its not trying to unroll such a heavy piece.

quote John Childs:

I still think it’s blade offset.

I can’t find any way to adjust this, there’s no option on the cutter, or in any dialog box.

The supplier has got back to me saying that they have supplied hundreds of these and have never experienced this problem and he’s contacting the manufacture and showing my photos to get there advice, so least he’s being helpful.

[Barbara Eden]

Hi Baron, and welcome to the boards 😀
I spend most of my time cutting logo’s and text no more than 1.5" high, so know where you’re coming from 😀

Usually, if I’ve imported text or logo’s straight into my cutting program, rather than producing it IN the program, I find I have to spend some time cleaning them up – have you tried doing that – might help 🙂
Babs

[Alex Pirozek]

Baron,
I would say it’s down to your blade offset, if its correct when you put the pen in then the offset is probably set as 0 as the ball point of the pen is in the middle. The blades cut by dragging and when they reach a radius or corner they need a offset from the central point in order to turn and cut cleanly (Just like the offset on a castor wheel on a supermarket trolley). I get the same results when i forget to change back my offset settings on the cutter from the pen offset when i cut vinyl. There must be some settings on the rabbit for this or at least in the software.
Hope this helps,
Alex.

[Lynn Normington]

or maybe your blade is blunt if it’s not an off set issue ??

Lynn

[Peter Normington]

is the blade located in both top and bottom bearings in the holder.
if it isnt it gives a similar fault to incorrect offset as the blade "wobbles" about if only located in the bottom bearing

Peter

[Paul.Hill]

looking at your pics the only thing wrong is the blade offset set up the plotter correctly using the manual to select the right settings for your blade.

[baron]

thanks for all the help everyone, the blade offset comment seems to make sence, but the manual is useless, and i’ve never used flexisign before and can’t seem to find anywhere to adjust it

[Martin Pearson]

Just work through the tutorials that came with flexi, it will explain how to set up and its easy to understand

[John Childs]

We would adjust ours on the cutter itself rather than in software.

Is there not an adjustment somewhere in the control panel?

[Chris Wool]

i went and had a look at a similar plotter there does not appear to be any adjustment available to the offset ? pen or knife that’s your lot. thats not to say there aint any just could not find any reference to it.

any way i have had similar to this before and was the vinyl not slipping on the cutting strip and not quite moving as a flat sheet but buckling
stick a strip of vinyl over the cutting strip this should be more slippery and retry.

dont jump up and down boys and girls lets see.

chris

[Lee Husselbury]

I had the same problem, the vinyl seemed to be getting snagged/pulled somewhere causing letters to go like yours in the picture. It needed to be pulled tighter across when loaded and force reduced a bit, seemed to sort it for me.

[Peter Michaels]

Hi Baron,

I wonder if you’d be so kind as to let me know the name (ebay
username or some other contact details) for the seller that
you purchased your machine from. I’m also in the market for a
cheap plotter/cutter. You may email me at pm-uksignboards@threefiddy.com
if you prefer not to post details here.

Thanks,

Peter

[David-Foster-]

Doesn’t flexi sign pro cost a few thousand pounds? I would have bought some cheaper software and spent the extra on a better plotter. 😕
You can get a plug in for Corel X3 for about £150, sign tools 3.

[v8adam]

Guys i have the exact same plotter with the exact same problem. a Rabbit HX-720 made by Hengxing. I have tried it using ArtCut which came with it and also a demo of SignTools3 which uses CorelDraw to design. I dont want to go spend the money on a more expensive but better program unless i know its going to work. Ive had this thing for 2 months and can do bugger all with it.
Even when using the Test function on the plotter it has round corners on the square. Like Baron, i have tried using the pen and it draws perfect but put the blade in and it doesnt cut properly. Ive changed the blade and makes no difference.
Can anyone please help. Ive tried everything listed in the topic, there is no Blade Offsets or anything to set, and the vinyl is as flat and tight as possible.[/i]

[Martin Pearson]

With a more expensive plotter you can set the blade offset on the plotter itself using the plotters own menu system, someone has said that these plotters don’t have the option to set blade offset on the plotter itself but you should still be able to set it in what ever software you plot from. Don’t know about either artcut or coral but there should be somewhere within the software for plotter set up where you can change the value.

[John Childs]

quote v8adam:

Can anyone please help.

I don’t think so.

Other than to suggest that you all get your suppliers to rectify your machines, or, if they can’t, send them back for a refund and buy a better machine.

Sorry to be so negative, but that’s your best option.

[v8adam]

there has to be a way. so many of these are sold that surely there is a way. there is no blade offset at all in artcut of signtools3.

[Martin Pearson]

Try doing a search on the boards as this has been talked about on the boards far to much already in my opinion, there is probably already an answer to your question somewhere on the board.

If you plot straight from artcut there has to be a plotter set up somewhere within it that will cover this and if you don’t plot straight from artcut but export to some other software for plotting try looking in that.

[John Childs]

quote v8adam:

so many of these are sold

Correct.

And then they all come on here, or similar boards, trying to get them working. 😀

I’m not convinced about changing the offset in software anyway. These are very basic cutters built down to a price and I’m not sure that they will even accept software commands to change things like offset, blade pressure etc etc.

What you could do, although I wouldn’t hold out much hope of it improving matters, is to change your blade. For instance, if your cutter came with a 0.25 offset blade, try a 0.3 one instead. Like I say, it may not work, but if it changes the cut, for better or worse, then at least you would be sure that offset IS the problem.

[David-Foster-]

Hilarious! I just found the solution to your problem in the manual (online! I aint got one of these) under:

Cutting Disorderly! 😀

(2) Cutting disorderly
a. The connecting cable is damaged. b. The COM port of computer is damaged. c. The main board is damaged or MAX202 on the main board is damaged. d. The machine is turned off wrongly before finishing the cutting last time. e. The material settings don’t conform to the output length and width. f. The space of new computer is too large, install more software. g. The axle isn’t earthed and has static electricity interfere. h. “Setting” displays (on the upper right corner) after ArtCut2005 Software clicks on cutting output, for flow type control in setting port (1) select DTR/DSR, RST/CTS (2) select XON/XOFF in.

Oh…. or the software is pirated.

But seriously it is the blade offset, if the pen draws pefectly just imagine the pen path 1mm behind, it would track like that as the blade swivels.

[Martin Pearson]

David, having read your post I am a bit confused by some of the answers,
f. for example "the space of new computer is to large" surely that should be put computer on smaller desk?

As for set up someone has already posted a very comprehensive set up procedure for these plotters, if people are still struggling after that then I would have thought they should be contacting the suppliers for help, after all they sold the plotter in the first place.

As for software, I agree with you 100% don’t use pirate software, there is plenty of adequate software available some of which is not that expensive at all and it will come with some sort of support from the supplier as well so many of the problems people are having could be sorted out very easily.

[v8adam]

im not using any priated software, im using the software that came with the plotter and im using a demo of a program i may buy if it works.

as for the blade offset. i DEFINATELY think it sounds like it, by the way its cutting, its allmost like the blade isnt turning, but ive changed the blade same result. And there is not option to change the blade offset anywhere.

And i have contacted the people i purchased it off and have not answer yet.

Ive had this thing for 2 months and cant do a bloody thing with it.

[John Childs]

quote v8adam:

its allmost like the blade isnt turning.

You’d know if the blade wasn’t turning. It would only cut in one direction and tear the vinyl in all the others. Not to mention the horrible accompanying noises. The difference would be obvious.

No, if yours is like the photos posted above, then the blade is turning, but it just isn’t following the correct path.

added on edit. That’s not strictly true. The blade may be following the correct path, but the tip of it isn’t.

[v8adam]

ok that makes sense. cos it doesnt make any wierd noises and doesnt rip the vinyl.

[Martin Pearson]

If you have had it for 2 months and still haven’t heard from the people who sold it to you I would be thinking about returning it and getting my money back, it may well be that you have set it up correctly and there is an actual fault with the machine itself. If you wait to long then you are not going to be able to get your money back if that proves to be the case. As for software no one said you were using pirated software but it obviously goes on. I am surprised though that you have a demo copy of flexi 7.6 as they have been selling flexi 8 for some time now and also on all the demo versions of flexi I have seen you cant save, print or cut anything as these features are disabled.

[v8adam]

Its a demo of SignTools3 . It uses Coreldraw to design the work and uses signtools within coreldraw to cut. I dont like it really, but im not done evaluating. Seeing as though i cant cut, i cant evaluate anything atm.

[David-Foster-]

Martin, it is Baron that has the ‘demo’ of Flexi 😀
"the space of new computer is to large" I think it must mean the space on the hard disk drive?
v8adam, I have the full version of SignTools3. When you get your plotter working you should get it. If you know how to use Corel your half way there, rather than learning something from scratch. The plotter is listed on SignTools site.

[Martin Pearson]

Sorry, my mistake, I thought you said you were using flexi 7.6 but that was the guy that made the original post, i would still think about returning it though because if it is a fault with the plotter fairly soon you are going to reach a point where they won’t take it back and you will be stuck with a broken plotter. Worst case scenario I know but could happen.

If signtools3 is a plug in that you use to plot there must be something in there that will allow you to change the blade off set, have you tried contacting the manufacturers of signtools3 for their advice? You might get more joy from them than from the plotter supplier.
Sorry I am not familiar with either artcut or signtools3 so can’t tell you exactly where to look.

[Chris Wool]

demo software
dont that mean it wont cut until you pay for it

[David-Foster-]

demo as in ‘demo’ wink wink I think 👿

[Chris Wool]

the guys over the road from me do really fancy glass work and they have just bought a complete cutter system for glass designs etc.

well the plotter that came with it all is not named or marked and looks just like these things.

it works very very well weeding is as good as it gets.
the difference is its driven by some very dedicated software and a guy came set it all up and gave then 2 days training on the software and cutter.

slight difference in cost thou

[Martin Pearson]

Chris, that just about sums it up, most of the people who have been asking these questions on the boards would have had little trouble at all if there had been some sort of after sales service or the supplier had arranged some sort of training. Like you say though there is a bit of difference in the cost :lol1:

Some demo software is fully functional and allows you to use all the features, normally though when supplied like this it is for a very limited time or a certain number of start ups.

[v8adam]

yeah the demo of signtools is for 25 uses only then needs activation, it is fully functional but only for 25 uses.
I got a reply over night from the person i purchased it off, they ask for my contact number. That was all i got, and that its funny cos that was after i asked for a refund on the unit. I told him that i wwanted to go buy something that actually worked even though it would cost a hell of alot more at least i would actually be ale to use the damn thing.
I will contact ASigns who make Signtools and see if they can help me.

[baron]

Sorry for not replying but i’m on a course all this week, so don’t have access to the net, been on with the supplier who in turn has contacted the manufacture and they have requested some additional information that i’ve sent, so it is being looked into, but if it can’t be sorted, i will be asking for a refund as its useless, and then hopefully you guys can recommend me a better cutter.

[v8adam]

yes Baron iam in the same boat as you, if my supplier can not help me then i will be asking for a refund. I wish i had found this website first.
I paid AU$630 for my cutter and had i known it would have been this useless i would have gladley purchased a more expensive name brand unit so that i could actually use it.
Keep us posted Baron.

[David-Foster-]

What’s that my mother used to say…. ‘Buy cheap, buy twice!’

Hope you guys get your refunds. You will get lots of advice on best plotter to buy on here. It will be a Summa, Graphtec or Roland. I have an Ioline (£1295) and it’s excellent. Average price is about £1200 but that was a while back. I think I have seen the Graphtec for £995.

[v8adam]

I spoke to the supplier on the phone the other night, and he told me that he thinks it is the vinyl iam using. But i told him i was using really good vinyl (Avery brand) and purchased from a professional shop here in Sydney that sell plotters and vinyl and so on. He told me he was getting a batch of new vinyl in in a few weeks and he would give me a roll to try out.
What do you guys think of that?
A cop out on his part?

[John Childs]

quote v8adam:

What do you guys think of that?
A cop out on his part?

:yes1:

Even if his material does give better results, and I know it won’t, a machine that can’t work with material from one of the world’s leading suppliers is next to useless.

I think he is just stringing you along, playing for time, and hoping you will go away.

[baron]

my supplier is waiting to hear back from the manufacture, butin the mean while is sending me out a new blade holder to try, so will keep you all updated.

[Tonete]

It can be the matter because sometimes the blade cannot turn well in it´s suport, and makes the same effect than a bad offset value. I had that matter, and I putted some sewing machine´s oil on it´s bearings, and then it was cutting perfectly again. Maybe yours have defectuose bearings, or those are dirty, or too dry.

Anyway, I´m with all people that told you that you need to adjust offset, if it´s not possible in the plotter, it have to be done by the software. If yours cannot do it just look for one that allows it. The plotter willl move in the way that the software tells it, and you need can change offset value when you use diferent blades.

Regards and good luck.

[Shane Drew]

quote John Childs:

Even if his material does give better results, and I know it won’t, a machine that can’t work with material from one of the world’s leading suppliers is next to useless.

I think he is just stringing you along, playing for time, and hoping you will go away.

well said John. I agree with that too.

[Robert Lloyd]

Hi Baron

Could you please tell me what material you are trying to cut on that machine?

After looking at your photos that stuff looks kinda thick to me

I have looked at the rabbit sight and was not impressed by the fact that there are no manuals on line the troubleshooting section looks pants and guess what happens when you press the service tab – sod all

But I have to agree with the boys if the knife holder is not moving in any way its got to be the blade offset and if you cant alter that in someway the machine ain’t worth a stuff.

But if they are sell units somebody out their must know the answer as iam let to belive they use them a lot in the T shirt Game

[Chris Wool]

well here is a nother twist to this on going debate
i have overlaid the path the knife should have taken and at first glance the offset is amiss.

but that would not account for the mis shaped letters ?.

my guess is that as the paper plot looks ok, the vinyl is buckling on the platter or mechanically lose on the shaft.

give the bed a polish with mr sheen or some thing so the vinyl will slip better.

just my take on it

me the Muppet cant post the image so new post

Chris

[Andrew Boyle]

I was asking questions at SignUK 😀

[Chris Wool]

thanks andrew
can the other one be deleted

chris

[Andrew Boyle]

NIK 😀

[baron]

cheers for all the sugestions, the pen drawn and cut out where both done on Avery 500 event vinyl, even tried it on the 600 series and no difference, i also tried sticking a stip of vinyl to help it glid better and even gave a clean and no difference.

I received the new blade holder and guess what no change, so i’ve packe it up and sent it back, and have demanded a refund, as my business is suffering and it doesn’t do what its says on the tin!

Thinking of the following few cutter options, i’ve started a new post.

https://www.uksignboards.com/viewtopic.php?t=27293