printing number plate with pc60

[Chris Wool]

quick guide 50 pence for ribbon +vinyl + perspex + backing

[Richard Urquhart]

thanks for that , i think i could make money doing it that way ,i normally use cut vinyl but doing the small text at the bottom of the plate is so fiddly i cant be bothered
thanks again rich

[Bill Dewison]

I do them all the time like that Rich, they’re profitable. More so if you print the boy racer backgrounds onto the clear at 30% black, although I keep being told how illegal these are so it may be wise to print yourself some white labels to stick on the back of the plates saying “Show Plate Use Only, Illegal for Use on Road”. Just covers you in the event of. 😀

Cheers, Dewi

[Richard Urquhart]

hi dewi, i can see what you saying but not sure how to do it

i can set the black to 30% but it didnt change the colour and how would i get numbers in full black or do i print numbers say spot black the reprint logos background again without removing from printer ??

[Bill Dewison]

Just modified this quickly….

I use CorelDRAW to layout my plates, so its quick and easy to alter the tints for the background logos/graphics. Not overly sure how to do that in Flexisign 😕

The plate above is pretty typical of what I get asked for in the shop and one of the bonuses of having the PC60 to do them. Its reasonable money as well as I charge about £25 a pair for these, cheaper than some, dearer than others, but I’m happy with it 😀

Cheers, Dewi

[Richard Urquhart]

dewi looks good i see at the bottom of your design you put your company name ,i understand this and as a number plate supplier which i am i should put my company name and my post code however some don’t like this have you found this to be a problem ? do you get round it by suppling as show plates ?
i will have a play with the pc60 over holes i have managed to use lots of ribbons just playing do you find roland better than print one ?
i have had a set of there’s and they seem good but don’t have real Roland ones to try

[Chris Wool]

rich make sure that photo colour is switched off in the driver else it will take all the colours to print grey

chris

[Richard Urquhart]

thanks Chris
if i say type rich as text in flexi in spot black go in to the colour box in production manager and tell it 30% black can or will it do it

or can spot black only print black at full strength

[Bob @ Prestige]

Just like to but in here, Dewi, regarding your example, am I right in saying you print the background logo and the badge at the side of the plate using the PC60 ? and then re-print with the digits in a darker colour ?

I do plates, but bought a printer, citizen thermal thingy with the software, this prints the digits onto the reflective panels which I buy in pre printed or plain, similar to your sample, badges are seperate.

Do you print onto a reflective, and then assemble the plate ?

Just curious, as I sometimes have to do the digits in corel if they want some wierd spacings, the citizen printer wont allow me to amend the spacings other than standard typing

Bob (?)

[Chris Wool]

rich
should print a patern black 30% by just using the black ribbon dont know a thing about flexyamejig

chris

[Bill Dewison]

Rich, I’ve tried both and other than the white cartridge from PrintOne, I’ve found thier ribbons to be equal to Roland’s own. My orders are always 100% right, they get here on time, so I just use PrintOne now. I know there is the whole “swap empty carts for head” thing, but to be honest, if you’re not earning enough out of the machine for a £250 head, its not worth keeping it in my opinion.

Bob, I print the side graphic (with daffy) onto white, then the number plate is printed background and all onto clear. I then lay them both up onto a piece of reflective, pop on some acrylic and seal using the rollers. The whole thing can be done in less than 10 minutes excluding the design, but for a simple design, again 10 minutes. The only one I’ve fallen down on was a plate for a motorbike where the colours had to be exact. I couldn’t match them, so I refunded the chap his money, then sold him some stickers to mount on his existing plate. Not worth messing around, if it can’t be done, it can’t be done.

Cheers, Dewi

[Richard Urquhart]

thanks Chris and dewi
i will get some more ribbons from print one silly getting Roland ones if there is no difference

i have been printing gold and silver on to black vinyl and the results are brill i just need to get some work in now i have got the basics of the machine
thanks rich

[Richard Urquhart]

dewi what clear vinyl do use mate???

[Bill Dewison]

I mostly use Oracal 751, unless I’m in a scrooge mood, then I use 651 :lol1: The 751 is extremely thin, so it suits the job and I’ve found the print quality to be great.

I’m still waiting to grab some Convex, as I’m constantly being asked to do crosser graphics, again, I’m just a scrooge when it comes to buying anything other than my usual vinyls 😀

Cheers, Dewi

[signdevil]

If a plate is illegal for road use then it is illegal for an outlet to sell the plate. Dewi, the design you show is quite clearly illegal in respect of the badge and the background so do we agree that we are criminals even when we state to the consumer that the plate is for show use only.

After all, it is not illegal to sell a mobile phone but it is illegal for the phone to be used whilst driving. I cannot think of a more apt similarity than this.

I’d like to hear some other thoughts on this subject if anybody has any.

😉

[Paul Goodwin]

Hi SignDevil

I agree to a point with the criminals bit but…….

If we sell it as a show plate and not for road use, who are we to asume that the customer isn’t only going to use the plate for when they take thier pride and joy sup’ed up Nova to a car show or a legal off road event only, and not use it on the public highway. As thats what we as sign makers have made. A SIGN and not a road legal number plate.

I get my customers to now sign a decleration that they are illegal for road use. and when i finaly get round to having my webby made, there will be an electronic disclaimer they have to agree to too.

😉

[Bill Dewison]

Thats the thing, the DVLA would love to prosecute signmakers for making these plates, as more often than not, the signmaker has a little bit more money than the boy racer who was using it, and the signmaker after all is an easy target.

It is an illegal plate, and its clearly marked as that, but as you say Gary, the situation could arise were we will be catergorised as criminals for supplying them. Unfortunately the DVLA have not set down clear guidelines to what is illegal to sell, only what is illegal to use. If they tell me it is illegal to make plates like this, fair enough, but I suspect they’re more likely to try some sort of test case prosecution against one signmaker, to see if they can make it stick. Unfortunate, but I could imagine it happening over the next year.

On thing that puzzles me though, the plates I make can be photographed clearly by roadside cameras and can be read at the same distance away as any other plate, so considering those are the two issues stated by the DVLA for not allowing these types of plates, it kind of makes a mockery of it. I agree that using any old font would mean a plate could be unreadable, but a background or indeed a side graphic to a plate is doing no harm whatsoever. What is the difference between the official GB sticker and Daffy Duck? You can still read the damn plate!! 👿

Cheers, Dewi

[Robert Lambie]

quote dynamite signs:

thanks Chris and dewi
i will get some more ribbons from print one silly getting Roland ones if there is no difference

i have been printing gold and silver on to black vinyl and the results are brill i just need to get some work in now i have got the basics of the machine
thanks rich

Hi rich, out of curiousity mate, how much do roland charge for say a black ribbon these days?
i remember when we bought our pc60. a ribbon cost £14.99 and i think about £19.99 for a spot colour. when folk complained about the running costs of these machines & then by the introduction of the same ribbons from the likes of print one, they were forced to reduce the cost to about a tenner a ribbon. still too high!

by the way i hope you keep your spent cartridges? 200 empty cartridges gets you a new print head from roland free…

[Richard Urquhart]

hi mate i think victory are about £10.00 and spot colours are 19.95
print one are cheaper so i think i will stock up ,i have only been playing about and have used 4 ribbons i was amazed how quick i used them !!!!

[Bill Dewison]

Yeah they go real fast Rich, its easy to use a whole batch of them just playing around with ideas 😕

Have you got all the PrintOne info on prices etc? They should be lying around somewhere if you haven’t, I think their spot colours are about £7.50 on the cartridge exchange, and about a fiver on the refills, much better value than Roland’s own. Boggles belief that Roland charges so much as the money you save with PrintOne will more than afford you a new print head when you need it, so it kind of makes Roland’s 200 carts for a head offer a bit daft! 😕

Glad you’re getting to grips with it though, shame we weren’t geographically closer, could have met up and had a “print the most realistic fiver” competition :lol1:

Cheers, Dewi

[Richard Urquhart]

hi dewi , there have been many times over the last week i just wanted to come and see someone who could just show me what to do its taken a week to work out all blue spot colour use the same bar code and i just tell flexi spot blue ,ithink im getting there !!!!!!!!!!!

[signdevil]

What about the on-line selling of registration plates. The law states that if something displays a registration number then it is a registration plate and to be able to sell a registration plate you have to be registered with the DVLA and you must inspect and record details from specific documents. These documents have to be the originals!!! What this has actually done is in one swoop wiped out the sale of a product on the internet. We live in the highly developed western world where e-commerce is supposed to be actively encouraged by the governments that represent us and this goes right against the grain. Any thoughts on that one?

😉

[Bill Dewison]

quote dynamite signs:

hi dewi , there have been many times over the last week i just wanted to come and see someone who could just show me what to do its taken a week to work out all blue spot colour use the same bar code and i just tell flexi spot blue ,ithink im getting there !!!!!!!!!!!

Considering the distance you travelled to collect the PC60 in the first place, I bet a trip to Manchester was the last thing you would have thought of anyway :lol1: I found when I got the PC60 that just asking for hints and tricks here worked wonders, but admittedly my guru was MrSticker, a top bloke who knows his stuff 😀

Gary, I agree with you, for a government that promotes so-called free trade, their latest offerings, particularly in relation to vehicle registrations, is effectively making it impossible to trade. By taking the stance of blaming the signmaker for the end users actions with a product, who would bloody want to supply a number plate!?!? Does the newsagent get sued if he sells a box of matches to an arsonist? 😮 Does the chemist get prosecuted if they sell a pair of scissors to a serial killer? 🙄 But sell something as simple as a number plate to a customer, god forbid that number plate ever turns up on a stolen car, the signmaker will probably be arrested for grand theft auto! 👿

I do rant on a bit, its your fault Gary, I’m annoyed about it now :lol1:

Cheers, Dewi

[Robert Lambie]

do the dvlc or anyone charge for the certificate to make plates?

[Nicola McIntosh]

quote dynamite signs:

hi dewi , there have been many times over the last week i just wanted to come and see someone who could just show me what to do its taken a week to work out all blue spot colour use the same bar code and i just tell flexi spot blue ,ithink im getting there !!!!!!!!!!!

rich you are not alone!! i too got panicky…’oh how do you do this & that’ trust me you will get there, now with me it’s job in… printed… out, i think it’s because vectorising & cutting is easy and we have gotten so used to it that the digi side was like ………..wow!! anyway i got there too with a great help from dewi & steve!! it’s just getting to know the wee bits to get you going!! 😀 😀

Nik

[Paul Goodwin]

The registration Rob is £40

that is to supply road legal numberplates. if it’s a case of anything that has what may apear to have a registration number on it that makes it illegal, well i can’t come up with thewords right now, it’s just stupid.

if a guy comes in and asks for a sign made with say MR B1G ,using the font ballon for example, is that automaticaly a registration plate? no it cant be because areg plate has to be made with specific font, specific spacing ect ect. all u have made is a sign with letters and numbers on it. which is not sold in anyform to be used on a motor vehicle on teh public highway.

If u sold 1 with the legal font and everything else that goes with it, well yes that is a number plate and u need to see and record the docs, anything else that in anyway shape or form deviates from the legal plate cannot be clase’d as a number plate.

as i said i cant come up with the right words but i hope u get the gist.

[Robert Lambie]

I think what this comes down to is pretty simple; I was stung with the same sort of scenario a while back.

We are situated in the town centre, behind a taxi rank, we do loads a work for taxis.
One day a taxi driver comes in holding a cheap broken bit of plastic taxi plate with very poor graphics. He said, this is my taxi reg plate. & ive just paid £25 for it… can you make me another… I said yeh.. So off I went and made him one in metal, exact same but much better quality!
Next day another taxi comes in… Same thing, heard you can make me a plate, mine has split just putting in the screws… off I went and made another. Cut it short we made about 100 charged £15 each… all setup the same… just a number change and reg…
A while past and new plates were issued. I think it’s an annual thing… in comes the tasi guys wanting this new style. This was easy… so I went about duplicating it all exactly & saved it as a template.
It was cut vinyl, pc60 black logo printed. Metal plate with reflective vinyl. (The originals where cheap plastic and not reflective) we decided to keep the price the same and make a stock of them. The following day we made about 100 for stock.
Sold a few and in walks the police! They said that the council sent them in, it was illegal for me to do this as it was only “them” that could make the plates. (They have their own sign division you see) I went on to tell them it was the drivers complaining about paying £25 for cheap crap when we charge £15 for top end ones… I asked can I have a license to print them then. Nop… sorry only the council can.
Bottom line is the council what the annual profit of renewing the plates. Just like I am sure the dvlc know fine well that every car & sign shop on the street can make them…
Sooo… in turn they put up the standards of making them and make it only legal for those that pay them to be allowed to make them.
The laws always been the same, I just suspect they are tightening the loop holes.
Internet trading? Much much stricter than street trading. You would not believe the crap I had to go through to setup a credit card taking facility over the internet!
I bet many of us don’t actually realise the amount of companies setting up business on the net that use a day to day credit card machine in their business and over night decide to trade on the net? Doing it right is difficult! High percentages to pay on transactions the lot! I think they maybe introducing a standard 6% or higher for net trading, if that’s not already happened. The guy that set our machine up told us of many horror stories, and that was just what he had witnessed.
We all know the crap that’s sold on ebay, just think of the amount of fraud and the like being sold via dodgy sites?

Bottom line here is… councils, dvla etc want their cut no matter how much we winge on. As soon as we have a credible argument, they will turn it onto the safety/legal side of the argument, where they will win hands down every time.

[signdevil]

Dewi, you share my thoughts exactly and that is why I feel this law is so flawed that somewhere soon somebody high up is going to end up with egg on their face. This will happen when the DVLA decide to try and enforce this law and carry out a test prosecution as you say. If the person they try it on is ready then they could find they have a bit of a job on their hands.

A friend of mine sits on a panel which advises the DVLA on the matters which sometimes become law. This friend is a major player in the reg plate making industry in this country and his company sell show plates and sell on the web also. He assures me that as long as the vendor is up front and clear that the plates are for ‘off road’ use only to the purchaser then no law is broken. He also assures me that the DVLA have already tried the test cases against vendors selling ‘show plates’ and the DVLA have been defeated on each occasion. This is not something however the DVLA brag about.

Explain to me the logic in this one. If I had my business based in Ireland, I could sell plates into the UK via the web and no law is broken. If my business is based in the UK and I sell plates in the UK via the web, the law is broken (or so they say). Where is the logic in that???? That just serves to stifle trade in the UK and pass it on to other countries ???? The web knows no boundaries and the enforcement of such a flawed law will just force the trade of plates in this country underground.

There are a few of us at present who have formed an ‘alliance’ for the purpose of sharing information and above all pooling our finacial muscle should we need it to launch a defence if /when one of us should become the guinnea pig in the test case. The plan is if one of us is touched then the others will be there to assist in the defence because what happens to the one will affect us all. If anybody that sells plates / signs / show plates or whatever would like to be part of this ‘alliance’ then feel free to drop me a pm.

Just look at the fox hunters. You may or may not agree with that activity but by standing together, who knows what will happen.

[kev hoy graphics]

signdevil:
Complain all you like mate, at the end of the day it will be down to many things other than just who can make some money for the sales of plates.
e.g.
I want to pinch a white merc sprinter van.
I drive around till I see one the exact same as the one I want to pinch. (Easy coz there is loads on the road)
Anyway, I see one. Take down the registration and walk into your sign shop or use your shop on the net. Ask for a set of plates to be made. You hand them over and that’s that.
Apply some double sided tape to the back & then find the van I am going pinch!
Walk up and stick the plates on top of the genuine ones & pinch the van.
Owner calls police and reports van missing, gives description and reg number.
The stolen van passes the police that have just heard the report. At a glance they see it’s not the van due to plates so they look the registration up and it’s not reported stolen, but is a genuine number?
Further down the road the stolen van hits a child crossing the road & keeps going!
Witnesses take down the number but off it goes into the night.
Next day the van has respray and yet more new plates, bought from? Yep, you! or one of the others on the net or high street that don’t have a plate licence.
So from this little story, we find someone a victim of theft, someone a victim of being accused as the hit & run driver & none of the two cases can be solved because “no real” details were ever submitted on buying the plates. The DVLA or police can’t start to ask did anyone issue these plates because the people that sold them are not on record.

There are probably many different scenarios on this so you’re beat before you start.
Your argument is, it’s not fair because you want to make money from them because you can. On the other hand, the police, the DVLA have other more important issues about you selling the plates!

[Bill Dewison]

Agree with you Kev, and if that was the DVLA & Polices drive, to stop situations like the one you’ve described from happening, fair enough. I have no problem whatsoever with selling a legal plate and getting documentation from the customer to legally verify they are the owners of that vehicle, but when it comes to a show plate, the DVLA haven’t set out thier stall.

If their arguement was to avoid the situation you mention Kev, okay, they may have a vaild point, I hadn’t looked at it like that. But their arguement seems to be more on the side that “The cameras can’t read the plate” or “The plate cannot be read from a certain distance”. Neither of these are taking onboard vehicle theft or other likely crimes commited using false plates.

A show plate is a show plate, but the law sets the rules in opposition to each other. Buy a radio scanner, but don’t use it! Buy a car capable of 160mph, but don’t do it! Sell rubber chickens, but d… oh, maybe thats just me 😳 😳 Seriously though, if they make it illegal, full stop, to make a show plate, fine. Unfortunately though, as Gary has rightly pointed out, this will only push the trade underground, which is 10 times more likely to bring on the scenario of the stolen van/hit ‘n’ run.

I don’t necessarily know the answer to this one, but some very clear guidelines and less threats of prosecutions every five minutes and we may start getting somewhere. If the DVLA work with number plate retailers rather than bullying, a more constructive solution could be found that would hopefully suit all parties.

If anyone from the DVLA enforcement department are reading this (which on Christmas Eve I very much doubt) please oh please explain what the left bar is all about. You want the GB symbol in there, but you don’t mind if its not there. But put something else in there, like good ole Daffy, and its an illegal plate 😕

Cheers, Dewi

[signdevil]

Kev

You are obviously under the misapprehension that all scenarios have not been addressed so I’ll answer your questions and then perhaps you’ll see where we are coming from.

You come into one of our outlets to buy your fake plates. We’re going to ask you for all the appropriate documents and we are going to record those records using the DVLA template document, which may be downloaded from the DVLA web site. You can still go and use the plates in crime but your details are recorded. Stumped!!!

You hit our web site in the hope of getting your hands on your fake plates (don’t forget this whole thing is about traceability). To order plates on the net you’re going to be asked for your full name and the address to which your credit/debit card is tied. After that we will check that the card details given actually match the name and address given and if this checks out we will only despatch to the address to which the credit/debit card is tied. On top of all that when we do despatch the delivery is recorded and will require a signature. You can still go and use the plates in crime but your details are recorded. Stumped!!!

Now I am no criminal or car cloner but even I suspect that those involved in criminal activity would not go down either of these two roads to get themselves a set of registration plates.

I am not complaining I am simply raising some very valid arguments to a poorly considered decision. A decision which is causing problems for many long established and respectable businesses and with respect a problem which you quite clearly have no extensive knowledge of.

Finally, reverting back to your Sprinter scenario. What was to stop you removing the plates from the Sprinter you spotted in the first place? That is after all what the real car cloners do!
😕

[signdevil]

Kev, Whilst I am hot on this subject and to further convince you that our opinions are not entirely uneducated, you might like to peruse this body of text which was recently sent to the head of vehicle crime unit at the DVLA. Sorry it is a little long winded but serious matters deserve seriously considered opinions and arguments. The text reads :

Firstly may I make it clear that I am in support of the prevention of vehicle crime through the practice referred to as ‘cloning’. In the second sentence of your e mail you use the phrase ‘breaking the law’ whereas the phrase used by the DVLA in the XXXXXXXXXXXXX of the 17/10/2004 was ‘broken it’s guidelines’. The last thing we as a company wish to do is break the law and leave ourselves open to prosecution. I constantly source information from the Internet and speak with other companies within our field regarding the matter you refer to. It is true, on occasions we sell registration plates to customers and we do not always see the original documentation for the vehicle the plates are for nor the photo id for the purchaser as stipulated in the guidelines. There are many reasons that we do not always see the original documentation for the vehicle, the most common being that the customer has only recently purchased the vehicle and has not received the log book from the DVLA, which as you know can sometimes take up to 4 weeks to arrive. Should the customer lose or have a plate stolen in that 4 week period then how is that person expected to replace the plate if he/she does not have the documentation. When we sell a set of registration plates through our retail outlet then we will always abide by the guidelines and request that we see the original documentation for the vehicle and the photo id of the person making the purchase. When a set of registration plates is sold via the Internet then it is clear that the possibility of viewing original documentation and ID is pretty much impossible due to location. In circumstances such as this then yes, we have to state to the customer that the plates being supplied are not for road use and supplied for ‘show use’ only. In most cases this statement is true as GT Grafix is recognised as a major supplier to the modified car market and we sell many plates which would be deemed illegal for road use but they are used at show days and such. Car show days in this country are in abundance and proud vehicle owners are always looking for that special something to make their car different to the next. This market is huge and car enthusiasts will come to companies such as ours to source their goods. The simple answer to your question is no, I do not feel we are breaking the law because we are selling a product which is clearly stipulated as not being for road use. If it is not to be fitted to a vehicle and used on the road then how can it be a registration plate?

Your second question to me relates to the approach made to us by the DVLA expressing their concerns. This is correct, I do recall receiving a letter from the DVLA asking as to whether or not we follow the guidelines with respect the request of original documentation & id from the purchaser. I replied to that letter on immediate receipt and assured them that yes, when selling legal registration plates we as a company request the viewing of original documentation and id.

Your third question to me asks if we have any way of ensuring that show signs do not finish up on cars destined for the road. The simple answer to this question is no I do not. I also do not have any way to stop people forging tax discs, insurance documents and driving licenses but due to a criminal element in every society the world over, this kind of thing will always exist. I believe we are not breaking the law by selling the plates and making the customer fully aware of his/her legal responsibility towards them. I do however feel the customer is breaking the law if the plates are used on the road after being advised of their position.

Having now answered your questions there are a couple of points I wish to raise in the defence of ourselves and companies like ours. Firstly, I am of the belief that ordering a set of registration plates either online or on the telephone from GT Grafix is the most secure, safest and honest way of purchasing this product possible. The recent article in The Sunday Times implied that companies such as ours are solely responsible for the problem referred to as ‘car cloning’. I absolutely disagree with the views of the person who wrote that article and feel it was badly researched, badly written and was very misleading if not damaging. When GT Grafix takes an order for a set of registration plates via the Internet or telephone, the security checks we use to prevent ourselves suffering credit card fraud are extensive. We do not accept cheques, we only accept credit / debit cards and we only despatch the goods to the cardholders home address. Under no circumstances will we despatch our goods to an address other than that of the registered credit / debit cardholder. Fortunately the checks we make on the purchasers credit / debit card go hand in hand in ensuring that potential car cloners do not use a service such as ours as a source of registration plates. It is a well known fact that those involved in criminal activity like to have no traceability whatsoever and buying a set of registration plates from GT Grafix online or on the telephone is not exactly the wisest thing to do if you do not want your details recording. We keep records of every single set of registration plates we supply whether it be on the counter, by telephone or online. If a set of registration plates have been sent out from our premises within the last five years then we have every registration number, every name and every address. Should a vehicle be used in crime and we made the plates then we are able to tell the authorities exactly who ordered the plates and to where they were sent to. This traceability after all is what the legislation is all about. Considering the points I have raised regarding a criminals attitude towards traceability, I think it is reasonable to assume that anyone contemplating ‘car cloning’ would be silly to order registration plates online from a company such as ours and would instead either purchase the plates from a back street unregistered outlet or better still simply remove them from the vehicle they are cloning. I have explained the three ways in which a car cloner can lay his hands on a set of registration plates and for somebody to assume that the easiest way is to get them from an online plate maker is quite frankly naive and uneducated.

Secondly I would like to explain to you and give a valid explanation of why I feel the law in this respect is fundamentally flawed, my example is this. You are a lady living in Birmingham and you need to purchase yourself a set of registration plates because you have just bought yourself a private registration number. You contact an online plate maker in London and you learn that in order to receive your plates then you need to supply the original V5 document for the vehicle and also your original passport, to the company in London! This is out of the question so you search the Internet and you come across http://www.fancyplates.com who are more than happy to take your order, despatch the plates and you receive them in Birmingham the very next day. You needed the plates, you got them and http://www.fancyplates.com broke no laws in supplying them to you because the laws we have in England & Wales do not spread to Scotland, Northern Ireland & Ireland. For the company in London to supply you the plates then you will have either had to travel to London to produce your documents or the company in London sell them to you and tell you they are not for road use and you have to accept that before they will despatch the plates. To recap, the plates are readily available to customers living in England & Wales and if they’re not being supplied by companies in England & Wales they’re coming in from other countries. It is my opinion that there is no logic there, it is restrictive of businesses in England & Wales and the legislation plays absolutely no part in the reduction of the epidemic referred to as ‘car cloning’.

Finally, in 2003 the DVLA introduced this new legislation in an attempt to control the supply of registration plates due to vehicle crime. Others and myself sent numerous e-mails to various people within the DVLA regarding concerns about how the new legislation would affect our businesses. I personally received no replies to the e-mails I sent and I felt very much in the dark over the whole matter. Almost two years on I am more than familiar with the legislation having read it many many times. I understand that the legislation was introduce with all good intentions but the only thing it achieved was to cause a great deal of turmoil to legal living plates makers and customers alike. If a customer is required to produce only original documentation and photo id in order to buy registration plates, this in effect snubbed out online manufacturers of registration plates overnight. In an age when e commerce is supposed to be encouraged worldwide this is surely a case of ‘restriction of trade’ which in itself is possibly illegal. I believe that the legislation was not properly considered and there are some outstanding elements of it which make things difficult for everybody whilst at the same time achieve nothing. There are 36’000 registration plate makers in England & Wales and it is my suggestion that there is an online checking facility open to those companies which wish to conduct there business online. I am not suggesting that we should have the same access to information that the police enjoy but if we were able to subscribe to a system where we could enter a registration number, a surname and a post code and receive an immediate accept / reject from the DVLA computer, would that not then be ideal. There would be no breach of public confidentiality, it would be safe, secure and the problem could be solved overnight. We all make the exact kind of checks many times over each day when we take credit card payments and from what I see, this process would be exactly the same. If this system was implemented the DVLA would achieve their objective and the online plate makers would stay in business and trade safe in the knowledge that they are assisting the DVLA in a system, which works.

[Bill Dewison]

Bloody hell Gary, are you going for the longest post ever mate! :lol1:

I’m going to need my glasses, the above will take a while to read and I need a whisky or two 😮

Cheers, Dewi

[John Singh]

I’m printing this one out to read on my 250 mile train journey

I know what your thinking! Its OK its a return ticket

[Bill Dewison]

Ok, read it 😀

Blimey Gary, you really have thought this through! You’ve made a number of logical and valid points in your communications with the DVLA, lets hope they read it all and take at least some of it onboard.

I agree it is unlikely that a car cloner would use a legitimate service and be more likely to gain the plates by some other means, although I could imagine the opportunist car thief being tempted, but as you’ve said, if they come in the shop they need documentations.

I’m reading it again, that was good! All number plate retailers should read it, its like the Bible Code or something, nice one 😀

Cheers, Dewi

[Robert Lambie]

quote johnalphasign:

I’m printing this one out to read on my 250 mile train journey

I know what your thinking! Its OK its a return ticket

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[carbon]

Hi everybody

Surely the easiest way for the car cloners to get access to registration plates would be to buy the blanks etc from suppliers of these components and assemble the plate themselves as it seems to me that these suppliers don’t need to register (see section of DVLA web site below ) which seems to me to be a rather large hole in the fit against car crime. Please correct me if I’m wrong on this.

The new Register of Number Plate Suppliers

From 1 January 2003 all number plate suppliers in England and Wales will be required by law to register their details with DVLA. From that date a business will be unable to trade as a supplier unless it is registered.

Introduction

A Number Plate Supplier is someone whose business consists wholly or partly of supplying number plates i.e. finished plates that incorporate the registration mark of a vehicle registered with DVLA. Manufacturers, distributors, assemblers, motor factors, motor dealers and retail outlets including on-line retailers could fall within the scope of the scheme provided that they supply the finished product. Motor dealers who refit their used vehicles for sale with replacement number plates would be classed as number plate suppliers.

If a business supplies only blank plates or other components or materials it will not be required to register. People who manufacture plates solely for their own use, rather than supply to third parties, are not within the scope of the legislation e.g. a fleet operator who assembles plates and fits them only to vehicles in his fleet. As he does not supply the plates, he is not a supplier for the purposes of the legislation.

The Register of Number Plate Suppliers comes into force on 1 January 2003, but to allow businesses that are not registered to do so and to adjust their procedures, certain offences will not come into force until 1 March 2003. These offences are:-

i) Trading while unregistered
ii) Supplying an unregistered business
iii) Failure to keep records
iv) Failure to make the appropriate checks

The Police or Local Authorities will not have right of access to a business until 1 March 2003.

NB. It should be noted that the offence of selling ‘counterfeit plates’ (plates that do not conform to the specifications in the Road Vehicles (Display of Registration Marks) Regulations 2001 comes into force on 1 January 2003.

website link http://www.dvla.gov.uk/vehicles/rnps.htm

[Robert Lambie]

quote :

Finally, reverting back to your Sprinter scenario. What was to stop you removing the plates from the Sprinter you spotted in the first place? That is after all what the real car cloners do!

i would suspect this a pretty daft way to go about cloning a car, even if they do it like you say they do?
if my plates were stole ide report it to the police, not because i want to claim insurance, or that i want the police to waist their time tracking them down. its obviously so, im well in the clear if anything does happen involving my car/van whatever. if they are ebing stole its not because the theif feels he can sell them on?
im no expert but i would say car cloning is about buying time to get the car stole, painted and whatever before the police catch on. stealing the plates first from the word go is like shooting yourself in the foot is it not?

just my opinion of course 😕

[Paul Goodwin]

Good post Gary some great logical points there.

Carbon when i registered i had to give the manufacturer my dvla number, as far as i’m aware they cannot sell the components to any unregistered person.

[signdevil]

quote :

i would suspect this a pretty daft way to go about cloning a car, even if they do it like you say they do?
if my plates were stole ide report it to the police, not because i want to claim insurance, or that i want the police to waist their time tracking them down.

Rob, I do not know if you are actively involved in the manufacture of registration plates. As we are I know that the car cloners perferred way of sourcing plates is to remove them from the vehicle they are cloning.

In the main part, car cloning owes not a great deal to the theft of vehicles. Car cloning is more about hiding a vehicles true identity and using the identity of another of the same model and colour via the registration plates. This is the scenario, you wake up one morning and the plates on your vehicle are missing 😮 You call the police and you don’t even get to speak to a human being, you simply get a crime number from a machine. A couple of weeks later you start to get speeding tickets and parking tickets through the door. Somebody with a car the same colour and model of yours has your plates and they’re racking up the fines that you then have to disprove.

After all, this whole epidemic (or so they’d have us believe) was brought about by the number of people who were dodging the congestion charge in Westminster every month, some 8000 per month I believe.

These are the facts, this is not about plate makers being the cause of car cloning, that is bull. Plate makers are in the main honest people who have run their business correctly for a long time. This is about money, simple as that and because plate makers are up front and honest then they’re the easy target. The authorities do not have a chance or a clue about how to tackle hardcore crooks so what do they do, they use honest people to do the job for them. Just the same way as the Customs & Excise use VAT registered companies as an unpaid tax collector !!!!!!

Crininals do not use banks or credit cards and anybody that thinks they do needs to open their eyes. If they don’t use banks or credit cards then how on earth can they buy plates on the web? With a stolen card? That would fall over at the first check !!!!!!

Again, this is not waffle, these are thoroughly thought out facts.

Anyway, merry christmas everybody 😉

[Robert Lambie]

im not doubting what you say here mate,,, about the plates etc, if you read what i said in my other post, i too think it is down to money.
but i can see how they will uphold an argument by bringing in all the safety issues. this is where they have the upper hand, wrong or right. (not saying i agree, just thats how i see it)

as for buying on the web, well im not sure if you setup with/without notifying your card people but…. depending on certain things, you will not be paid for products sold on the net for 30 days or more!
sooo… lets say….

someone visits your site, buys a set of plates…

they scan in or fax photoshopped licence & documents.
they use a stole c/card
you take payment and it clears…
you send out goods to address.
they recieve them and do what they have to do…

30 days later… your money is not cleared buy the c/card company and money owed is paid back to the person that had card stole.

this is fact, im not trying to be a pain here but the hassle i had setting this site to except payments was unreal… many new laws are being enforced for payment online. like the car plates.. most is unfair for the decent man trying to earn a living.

ive no doubt that some car cloners use pinched plates, but i would see them as the joyriders.. kids….
having said that… there are many many ways to get a set of plates so to a point your probably right on how they can obtain them.

[Kevin.Beck]

don`t forget that for a small amount of outlay, you can perchase the equipment to make plates.

if i were a car ringer, i`d make my own.

a quick serch on the net will reviel where to go for the equipment…

[Richard Urquhart]

Becky thats so very true

look at me running a car body shop and setting up at the same address and calling is something different,sending an application to dvla and them sending me back my supplier number ,think about it if any one could ring cars it could have been me
whats the point of it all as you say just go and buy the stuff you need !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Bill Dewison]

Cunning plan 😀 We could come up with a shopping list for any would be car cloners, all the tools they will need to launch themselves into a career of crime, then maybe the DVLA, the police and particularly the Guardian newspaper will stop blaming number plate retailers! 😮

Bit extreme, slightly insane, but it may make a vaild point… so item 1….
:lol1: :lol1:

Cheers, Dewi

[signdevil]

It would appear that the lengthy e mails and conversations I have had with the DVLA have proved worthwhile to a certain extent as I have made it onto the list of consultees. When making changes to law and legislation the DVLA have a list of companies they consult with on these matters and I am now one of them. I have recently received a hefty document from the DVLA entitled ‘Review of the Registration of Number Plate Suppliers’. The register has been in place for 2 years now and at its inception the government stated that the RNPS had to be reviewed to assess its effectiveness and give the opportunity to make changes. We are now in a twelve week period where companies on the list of consultees can reply to the consultation paper.

There are two things within the paper which are of importance to me and most probably to you also. Firstly, the paper makes no recommendation for the assistance of distance sellers (people who trade by mail order). Secondly, the paper makes a recommendation for the legal supply of show plates. It would appear that the sale of show plates may well be allowed but the text ‘For Show Use Only’ may have to be displayed on the front of the plate. The size, location and colour of this text may well written into the legislation but this has not yet been decided.

We could have just made the first move in the right direction 😉

[Kevin.Beck]

i think putting the text ” for show use only” would put most buyers off.

butat least the laws moving in the right direction

[Bill Dewison]

I agree, the text being shown on the front of the plate would put most buyers off. The whole idea of a show plate is it is to show off, how can you show off with an ugly notify text band! 😕

As you say though Gary, at least things are moving forward now. Well done on getting on the list of consultees, you’re certainly well informed and in a good position to talk some sense to the bureacrats! 😀

Cheers, Dewi

[Mike Grant]

WOW that was a marathon read for me, just as well i’m on holiday :lol1: A lot of valid points that I wouldn’t have thought off.

Back to the original question which got lost somewhere down the line…….

To print solid black and grey at the same time go to the rolands print setup and select the colours, you will see a box to tick “PRINT IN GREYSCALE” or sommut like that, working from memory here! 😳 Once you have selected that, all the colour boxes will change to black. TICK THE COLOUR “BLACK” BOX (it will default to RED) It will then print solid black and any tone of grey in your artwork.

Hope you can work that one out! 🙂

As far as the showplates go I would print “For show use only” on the front and tell your Max Power customer that they have to have that on or you are breaking the law and will have to go somewhere else. Knowing that lot they will take the plate and ask you for a strip of vinyl to cover out the wording, but that should put you in the clear IMHO! Oh yes and make sure you do not use the official font either!

[Kevin.Beck]

instead of having the text printed in black on the plates.

It would be a better idea to have the text like the BSI logo/number- sort of raised digits via the manufacture prosess of the acrilic plates.

[Richard Urquhart]

mike you life saver

god knows how this post has gone on and on ,but most of all thanks for answering my question

i did have a play about and as you say i ca change the settings to greyscale

[Nicola McIntosh]

‘and now the end is near..and so i face..the final curtain’ 😉

not frankie’s rotten version… sid’s!! 😀 😀

sorry rich had to add it in 😀 ..great post & terrific reading!! 😀 😀

Nik (it’s the holiday’s) 😮 😮

[carla ritchie]

i see some of u have the scot flag logo under ur pics so i assume ur in scotland
if so why have u registered when our law is different to englands and we dont have to register to produce?

[Robert Lambie]

hi carla
i am not clued up on the plate setup but i am pretty sure you have to be registered? reason i say this is, one of our regular customers does plates and they are not allowed to produce a plate without company name and serial of some sort printed at the bottom very small. i could be wrong here of course, but same happened to us a while back for taxi reg plates also. 😕

[carla ritchie]

yes i read that assumed taxi plates wa sjust down to ur council as mots for taxis are done by council approved places aswell

as for my understanding legal plates should be but dont have to be in scotland 1 day it may well will have to be [i could ofcourse be wrong ]

weve been doing plates for a year now and 1 visit from a nosey copper who left with out really doing or saying any thing ive had tradeing standards in about copy rights ect but again didnt come to any thing so i guessing im not doing to much wrong
how ever we also class our legal plates as show plates as we have 2 kinds of legal plates
1 , actual legal plates with my company nam and postcode as per laws ect
frankly must have sold 2 in a year lol]
2 legal plates with the exception of the peoples names or slogan i e nothing else wrong just name on instead of mine sold tons of these .

number 2 get the leagal disclaimer sticxker on back
same as show plates

now i now i may be wrong and appreciate ur veiws im just pointing out my veiws and ways that are working for me .thanks

[Peter Normington]

disclaimers in law are not worth the paper or plate they are written on.

I could put a sticker on the back of a settee saying " you bought this item at your own risk, no warranty, its a settee, if you decide to sit on it then thats down to you, If if breaks, then your fault,"
or to put it another way, do you think any of the big supermarkets could put up a notice to say "if our food poisons you, we cannot be held to be responsible"

There is an argument that would stand up in law for "show plates" but its not a disclaimer,

Peter

[carla ritchie]

hi u know what ,i could have an arguement on this subject all night but when i argue it gets heated and words come out and as its my first day here i dont want banned already ,so ill bow out and u have ur opinion and ill have mine
good night .

[Peter Normington]

Carla,

this site lives on argument and discussion, nobody is ever banned for giving their valid opinion,

(racist and derogatory remarks excluded)

We don’t really bite, honest

Peter