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printer profiles
I’m having a battle with printer profiles and media and i wondered if anyone else has had this…
The best way i can explain is as follows:
If i fill fairly large square vector shapes with solid colour in illustrator then print on to white vinyl, the results will vary from print to print. The problem being that 90% of the shape will fill okay, nice consistent colour, then one part will show slightly less good coverage, then by the end of the print it’s back to normal. The effect when you stand back from it, is a mild striping pattern or line just through one part of the print. I’ts not banding as such, it’s more like the ink pattern momentarily faded slightly.You would expect a square of colour to look consisitent all the way through, but quite often there is this slight inconsistency.
I think it may be a profile issue, it happens too often to be flaws in the material i think (i’ve seen this on banner media also), or possibly, the versaworks rip?
anyone seen a similar issue?
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24 Replies
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hmm.. think i might know but it is horizontal lines?
Can you photo or scan and attach to the file swapping forum or members gallery/babble forum?
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quote Dave Rowland:hmm.. think i might know but it is horizontal lines?Can you photo or scan and attach to the file swapping forum or members gallery/babble forum?
Dave, if i remember correctly, the lines are always in the same direction as the print head travel.
so far, i’ve had it on white vinyl, banner media and art canvas, so different suppliers and different profiles etc, and it doesn’t seem to happen every time, just quite often. you could also describe it as a dirty mark running through the print.
I don’t think it will scan in well enough to really see it properly but i will try
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Dave, what do you think is causing this then?
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yes we have these lines from time to time and put it down to lots of things.i believe that its the way the inks are flowing to gether on the surface of the vinyl when all the variables are right its perfect. i also think that the vinyl surface varies in quality from time to time which don’t help.
humidity – temp – air temp – head speed – profile – number of passes all i think can bring on this problem but which one on a given day.
99 times out of the 100 printing at 720 dpi 8 pass will cure it. or change vinyl make.
chris
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Chris, I agree, it does seem to be open to a lot of variables. One day, i can print on any given media with the correct profile and it’s perfect, another day, i can get this problem again. I have tried a few different vinyls and banner medias and it has happened i think, on all of them at one time or another.
I recently printed a 12′ long banner with a large green rectangle on it, and it was perfect all the way through until the last two inches where the stripy lines came in!
My main concern would be if the printer was making this happen, if it’s not and it’s just a known problem with inkjet systems generally, then i would assume everyone has this problem occassionally?
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i bet the customer did not notice.
one mans perfect is another mans rubbish is what i have noticed in the digital print game over the last 8 years and when i look at other prints i think i am to fussy not that i am always right.
chris
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does this only effect banner material ? and does it only appear in the magenta?
As I said, can diagnose better with a scan or a close up photo mate. Infact I sometime scan vinyl in to see the pattern of dots our machine fires, I do live a sad exisitance i know. 😕
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dave if they are chasing the banding i think they are its not a mechanical type of banding like a nozzel not firing or incorrect feed distance its like the ink is not blending together nicely and will more than likly happen with a high ink load colour dark green etc. but changing the max ink load or profile does not always stop it. the more i think about it its to do with the vinyl surface.
chris
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i will try to post a photo of it.
Chris, your comment about customers not noticing etc, i do agree with also, i know exactly what you mean, although in this case, it is very noticeable because it’s happening in solid colour blocks.
Dave, it’s happened on all the media types i’ve used, not just vinyl.
I think Chris is right about the problem though, it does appear that the ink has not blended, the best way i can explain it is as if the ink was momentarily running out so it starts to just fade but then it is suddenly back to normal and it only happens in small amounts, no wider than about an inch.It would make more sense if it was the media surface just not being as good as it should be all the way through the roll etc, it would account for the unpredictable nature of this problem.
If it is that then it’s pretty annoying because it’s pot luck as to when and where it happens, and as of yet, i haven’t been able to get any of my suppliers to acknowledge that this could be their material. I have been told by one supplier that their digital vinyl is flawless. -
If what you are describing is along the feed direction of the vinyl, I would strongly suggest that the first place to look is the flatness of the material as it passes through. I have found that some materials are prone to having a small ripple which lifts the material towards the head, changes its temperature etc and causes the effect. It is most noticeable on areas of flat colour and with thicker materials such as banner and backlit polyester.
To cure it is an art rather than science but ensure the material is loaded taughtly side to side. Unroll the material at the back so there is no pull from the roll and set the vacuum high. I have found using the addiional rollers is useless as they will either mark the material or change the print absorption at the pressure point. Also ensure you have calibrated the material for ink % in the profile as laying too much ink magnifies the problem.
I hope this is useful.
Peter
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Peter, thanks for the suggestion, although it’s not happening along the feed direction, as i mentioned before it’s occurring in the print head travel direction.
I’m inclined to think this problem is mostly about the media surface. Having spoken to a rep recently, it seems that although the suppliers claim their materials are free from surface defects, or reverse wound etc, they are in fact subject to different quality of finishes, within the same roll.In fact, consisitency of some of the medias has proved to be a problem for the suppliers themselves, according to one person i spoke to recently
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Paul,
If you think its the media, it will simple to change to a different make or batch to check this. If it is not I would start by recalibrating the ink level in the profile. I have found this can have an extreme effect if too much ink is laid down. The trouble is there are so many variables, even changing the temperatures can make a substantial difference.
By the way what printer/RIP do you have and what make/type materials are you using?
Peter
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I’ve got a Roland SP540v on max inks using Versaworks rip. Well i have tried dozens of different materials, ans switching to different brands has not really eliminated the problem. Having said that, in the last two weeks or so, i’ve not had a problem, it just seems to pop up every now and again.
So far, i’ve had material from Metamark, Victory Design, Spandex, Hexis amongst others and had good results on most. No one product repeatedly shows the problem, it’s very intermittent.Editing the ink levels in the profiles is unchartered territory for me! So far, i’ve just been using the recommended profiles from each supplier. Is it easy to do?
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Its not difficult but is essential to calibrate the ink level in the profile. Unfortunately I don’t know Versaworks as we use Troop V5 but the principle is to put the ink level setting to 400% in the profile, print the calibration chart, check the printed chart for the best print – no pooling, not too thin, etc; and adjust the profile to the indicated % from the print.
It might be worth checking your Versaworks documentation.Peter
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Peter,
that sounds okay, i can try that. Have you done this to all your material profiles then? surely the manufacturers have already profiled for optimum ink settings…i thought that was the point of them spending all their time doing profiling? -
The profiles sit between the RIP and the printer and contain all the necessary info to instruct the printer. They should be made for each individual substrate with a major function being the colour produced. This depends on many factors such as absorption of ink which may be different for C, M, Y or K. What the manufacturers cannot do is allow for variations of individual machines. Hence the guys the do profiling for a living will tell you that the profile must be made for the material on your machine. In practice – we get away with it. However the amount of ink laid down seems to have a variation, not only between different models of the same machine, but in my experience during the life of the print heads. This is why the calibration for the amount of ink can be carried out simply without affecting the rest of the profile. It is a compensation for the current state of the print heads, if you like.
I’m far from expert on this and only relate to what I have learned on my machine. I have observed however that the ink level can affect quality a lot. I certainly would like to hear how you get on.
Peter
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Peter, i may try this and see what the results are like.
Do you generally reduce the ink level in the profile?
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Paul I have come across something like this on my Roland. It was down to the wiper blade just in front of the capping station being excessively dirty, so when the print head goes in for a quick clean ,as it does when printing it was picking up dry ink from the wiper blade and temporally blocking the print heads for a few print strokes. Maybe the wiper blade could do with changing.
Peter -
quote :Do you generally reduce the ink level in the profile?
Yes. One of the major problems is getting correct profiles for printers/substrates. Most substrate suppliers seem to content to hand out a generic profile and tell you to see how you get on with it!! (I’ve had reps in from suppliers who didn’t know what profiles were.)
I usually get a sample from the supplier. Then I do the ink calibration first and then print a full colour spectrum to see how the profile does on the substrate. After 24 hours I check ink adhesion etc.
It’s worthwhile as I have come across substrates where the ink will come off cleanly. Our “normal” vinyl has a profile so accurate I can get very excellent Pantone matching.
Peter
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Peter,
That’s very interesting…it’s been my experience also, that the suppliers quite often come out with a ‘try this one, or maybe that one’ when recommending profiles.
Your profile for the pantone sounds brilliant, i’m trying to find a way to match them well too. Did you manage to do that by reducing the ink level in the profile then?
Paul
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The accuracy of the colour is dependent on the mapping inside the profile. The ink % defines the quantity of ink laid down. While this may effect the colour I don’t think it is significant. What it does effect is the quality.
The excellent profile I have was made by Joe at Grafityp for their S22P vinyl for the Cadet using Wasatch/Colorip/Troop V5. It might be worth checking if he has produced one for your RIP. (It’s good vinyl too)
Peter
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Cheers Peter, I’ll give him a call. It’s so much easier when people know what they’re talking about 😀
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hi everyone!
I’m helping a friend who has just purchased a SP540.
I think I’m recognising the faults being described in this thread!we’re getting the occasional X-Axis (head travel) banding, which looks something nozzle related and I noticed that before I played with the vacuum settings, two raised areas in the Y-Axis (media feed).
vague striping, or more precisely, variant colour was present where the media was not flat.
As I’m not sure of the machine yet, I”m watching this thread with interest!
Wasatch / SP540 / LG vinyl
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yes that does sound pretty much like what i was getting. So far we have the wiper suggestion, which I haven’t investigated yet, and obviously the ongoing suggestion from peter about the quality of the profiles.
what i can say for sure is that having experienced this problem again this week (on a large banner), i then swapped the profile for s different one and did another eleven banners with great results, and haven’t seen that issue since.
So i think it comes down to matching all your media to certain profiles (not necessarily the recommended ones), and sticking to it through trial and error.
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