Pricing for retail

[Andy Gorman]

Seems reasonable. Of course, only you know what your overheads are. I assume that you will make it clear to people if you advertise these prices that they are based upon a standard material, and not say, reflective for example. Minimum order charge? You don’t want to sell too many 2 digit door no’s at 25p each do you, or do you?

[Bill Dewison]

Excellent point there Big G, I hadn’t considered that. I’d imagine that scenario would be repeated with the boy racers wanting names cut and the like. Not too bad if their name is Engleburt Humperdink, but I doubt that’d look good on a Citron Saxo anyway 🙂 A minimum order would solve that problem.

Cheers, Dewi

[Kevin.Beck]

you`ve got to have a minimum order charge.

what you don`t want is someone to order a 1inch letter costing only 25p

I have a minimum charge of £5.

[Bill Dewison]

A minimum order charge is the way to go then. Just had a thought though, if I pre-cut a small run of letters and numbers and priced them at slightly more than the pre-spaced ones (ie. 50p for a number two, things like that) would that give me the best of both worlds? Obviously I have little knowledge with regards to the shelf-life of cut vinyl, so this may be totally unworkable. Plus Letraset may send the heavies round 😆

Cheers, Dewi

[Martin Pearson]

The prices seem reasonable, I wouldnt make up to many sets for the shop though, maybe just make up a couple and see how they sell, if at all. If people know they can get exactly what they want pre-spaced for a few pence more it makes buying a lettreset a bit of a waste of time.
Watch your pricing though, we have a per letter charge but also work out a price for long sentences and multi copies. If you dont do this you will frighten some people away when they find out there lettering is going to cost a fortune.

[Kevin.Beck]

Just cut to order. don`t have ready cut, you don`t know what colour they want, or inside or outside fit,what font, upper or lower case.

i charge by the length.

300mm £5
400mm £6
500mm £7

etc etc.

Thats for single lines.

For a metre long, 3 lines of text, £30+ ish.

we used to have precut custom decals in the shop, you know the sort of thing, Motorsport. Pioneer etc. Thought it was a great idea, at the time. but the amount of just looking shoppers we had.. wasted a load of time, always happened when we were in the middle of a job. got rid of them in the end.

[Will]

Hello; good advice I once received was that you cant just take the price of your nearest competitor and then charge the same item at slightly less or the same, you and his circumstances may be totally different; no, employ some science i.e. work out your fixed costs over one yaer(rent, rental of machines loans etc) add to this projected other costs such as travel, postage, fixing machines, stock etc. then add in what you need to earn in one year, then work out your hours worked in the year (lets say 40 hours x 50 weeks) now you can see how much an hour of your time must be charged out at. work out how many minutes it takes to produce one of your letters, add to this the material cost of the item + say 30% (as you have bought it at a trade rate & are retailing it) eh voila! your CORRECT item price. It is worth working all this out as once youve done it you can apply it to everything you sell & youre not just pissing in the wind. also if the price youve come up with seems overly high you know you need to cut back some of your expenses somewhere. This is the scientific way to do it & it works (please refrain from using bad language on this site) admin 👿

[Robert Lambie]

maybe a little cheap mate.. but its your call at the end of the day. i think we start at 35p upto 1″ letter.. 4″ is about £1.25… i dont do the pricing in our place but i know those ones as i regularly have to price for taxi names as we are round the corner for the taxi rank 😆

[Allan Weyman]

Don’t bother precutting stuff Dewi, no one would buy it, that’s why you won’t have Letraset knocking on your door, they gay it a miss as well.

I do 1″ for 25p if you get a hunderd 1″ letters it’s £25 that ain’t half bad for about £1.50 in material and 20 minutes work. Add a bit for setting though if it is a bit involved like laying out a menu or whatever. Mind you my wife is a fast weeder, I find women are better at this job than the chas, more patience I think.

You won’t stick to that price list anyhow, it will only be a guide, at the end of the day once you have been up a running for a bit you will know when you are doing the job when you are happy with the price or not and you will soon start adjusting one way or other.

Allan

[John Singh]

A price list of a sort is OK Dewi, but don’t get a fixation on individual letters

Most customers will come into you with text they would like on a sign
They may give you total artistic license since in most cases they haven’t got a clue and sometimes they are not ashamed to say so.

In which case you are not any longer cutting letters!!!

You are now the designer, the creator
They want you to produce that miracle sign thats going to turn peoples head. They don’t really want to think that their sign has just been pulled off a shelf of 5,000 identical ones. Most discerning clients want their sign bespoke

This may be a project they have undertaken

The boss has given this job to them to sort out……or….

The local working man’s club committee has commisioned one of its members to sort out a sign for the car park

…..or …the wife of the local plumber who is rushed off his feet has been asked by hubby to sort out a sign for his unit.

Its a project for them

Treat it as a project for you

Cost it as a project

John

[Bill Dewison]

Going to attempt scientific method, see what it comes out as,hope I don’t fry my brain with math. 😮
if I can extinguish the melting mush thats my brain after I’ve used Will’s method, I’ll see what it comes out with.

I wasn’t saying though that I was going to apply these prices to signs, these are only prices for ppl who want to buy letters to apply themselves. It may be a mental idea, just want to see if it works. As far as applying letters to signs, I’ll be charging a job price/project price as John has recommended. Using John’s example of someone coming in for a parking sign, I’d charge them not only for the letters, but the sign board and the artwork/layout for doing it. This may not be practical in all cases, but the idea of the ‘loose letters’ is to avoid having to do lots of small application jobs all over the place. I’ve seen described here a case where the customer has asked ‘How cheap to letter my van’ (think it was Steve B.) but instead of giving him paint & a brush, I’ll sell him some letters. If this is the craziest of ideas, fair play, just want to be earning whilst I’m learning.

Cheers, Dewi

[Allan Weyman]

Dewi,

I sell plenty of supply only lettering from the shop, that for is a nice easy bit of bunce. Guy came in today and gave me £50 for two cab doors and a bit across the front of a Ford Cargo luvly. You can even buy them off my website I have actually set up a vinyl lettering mail order online shop. Dont’s sell that much online but get the odd order. Selling lettering only is great and suits my low labour force operation. No pressure, nothing to go wrong, and if they cock-up the application they will be back in for more, you can’t go wrong. Go for it.

I would suggest you download and print off a vinyl application method sheet and offer them a copy of that for free. APS of Slough have a good one. Also sell them a roll of masking tape and an applicator (more profit) as although it is a simple low tech, cheap piece of equipment it is a lot better than using a credit card and suprisingly hard to find a soft piece of plastic that will suit.

Allan.

[Bill Dewison]

Excellent, thank you for that Allan. Selling them the application tools is a good one, hadn’t thought of it like that.

Could I ask, when you say low labour force, is it rude to ask how many ppl work with you? I’m intending on running the shop virtually on my own, although my wife is willing to step in whilst I go out to quote or fit. Thats assuming I get work like that in the first place of course 🙂

Cheers, Dewi

edit: Managed to download vinyl application method sheet. Its got piccies as well which is a nice touch 🙂

[Phill Fenton]

Good luck with the shop Huey (sorry Luey – no Duey ,… whatever 😕 ).

With your design background and obviouse intelligence I’m sure your business will be a great success.

I just wondered why you decided on a retail environment for your business? I realise it’s the American model for a franchise sign business, but renting a small industrial unit provides lower overheads for a given amount of space.

Long term most of your clients will likely be small businesses and you probably will not deal much with the general public. ..You probably have sound reasons for opening a shop rather than operating from an industrial unit but I was wondering what you see are the main benefits in setting up your business this way?

[Allan Weyman]

I disagree with that, I have a shop with a reasoable sized workshop behind and a nice car park. I see where Dewi is coming from here and I don’t do bad with a mixture of niche printing, some general printing, copying (all formats) mugs, lots of clothing, signwork, vans, vinyl graphics etc. and i am always busy, no peaks no troughs what ever the time of year. I have friends who are in units specialising and work can be very seasonal.

I think Dewi is aiming at a similiar set-up, he’s younger than me and probably has a lot more energy and provided he can keep his overheads right he should be alright.

I would also advise him to try to buy his premises like I did, if at all possible, especially if it has a lettable flat above (rent from my flat pays the small mortgage I took out on my own house to buy the premises). Buying is also a nice retirement fund if he is thinking that far ahead, and it is a nice feeling if you get a bad week that at least you have made another payment towards your investment not money down the pan forever with rent.

Leases in this country are notourisly unfair and biased towards the landlord, I know so many high hoping guys that have come so unstuck with these I & R (Insure & Repair) leases. I could bore you with several horror stories from close friends of mine, I could also tell you of another friend who bought has sold up after a while and walked away wiith a cool £150,000 clear profit on the premises alone!

If you must rent make sure you have a break clause so if all goes ti*s up you can get out without being respnsible for the property for the next ten years even if not in occupancy. This advise is relavant whether you rent a unit or a shop.-My t-shirt supplier has a unit and is currently kicking himself for not buying when he had the opportunity a few years ago, he reckons that decision has cost him well over £100,000 to £150,000.

Diversification is the key here.

Allan

[Kevin.Beck]

High street shop or rental unit.

I`ve got a high street shop, decided to go this route because i didn`t want to fork out £100 a week on a unit.
I bought my shop 4 years ago, must have doubled in price by now. But it does have, for`s and agaists going for it.

Agaists
limited space. i have had to adapt all 3 floors for my equipment.
planning permistion, i had to be granted it before i could start producing goods.
the casual shoper, the just looking type. bound to come in when you are right in the middle of a job. this is ok if you have a full time assistant in the show room. we now keep the front door locked, they have to ring the bell if they want in. this might sound daft, but the type of bussiness we`re in, we won`t get a caller every 2 miniutes.

For`s
getting your self noticed. i`m on a main road, loads of traffic come past everyday. nearly everyone who rings, mentions they`ve seen my shop as they drove past.

[Allan Weyman]

Blimey Becky are you sure that is not my shop you are talking about, that was almost word for word perfect to my situation even down to the electric lock on the door and customer cursing when I am halfwau through an A0 encapsulation or something. Great minds must think a like.

Apart from the fact I do have a fair bit of land and a good size workshop and car park at the back with rear vehicle access

Very important to look for a pemises with ewar access if you are intending to do vans Dewi.

Allan

[Allan Weyman]

Tell me does the board sometimes mess with your spelling I am sure I proof read that last post correctly.

Allan

[Steve Lamb]

I have never priced lettering by the letter, you can get stuck with that.
Always how much vinyl used x ??? %, substrates used x ??? % and how long it takes to make, cut and install etc. Materials plus hourly rate.
Minimum charge is £40.00 sometimes £30 if I’m feeling generous.

How much is your set up worth if your busy and someone wants a few letters, loading your plotter with vinyl and switching it on is worth £20.00 if not a penny more.

Our premises is on a high street but slightly set back so no real frontage but I do have a swing sign on the pavement, don’t mind some of the work that comes in from it, don’t get any real messers. we also have the added benefit of being the only commercially based sign company in the town. I think a couple of others are about but based from home.

Alot of our work is actually away from our ‘niche area’ (within 20 miles or so).
As Alan said you have to have the proper business to business customers,
not the fly by people that want to spend a few quid and still haggle for a discount.

Cheers

[Bill Dewison]

In answer to Phill’s question about why retail, its a long boring story that can be easily abbreviated. My wife and I bought a shop 10 years ago which we renovated and rented out, shop & flat. After substantial upgrades to the property over the past couple of years. the shop tenant of nearly 8 years has gone in franchising, so one empty shop as of mid Jan. Hence no rent to pay, fully kitted out shop, basement, workshop all on 3 phase electrics, I’d have to be a real Huey not to go for it. Essentially I’m reaping the rewards of my work back when I was barely old enough to buy a pint 🙂

Cheers, Dewi

[Allan Weyman]

I dunno first Dewi, now Huewy, what next Donald duck! Looks like you have it all sussed out already Dewi.

Allan

[Lee Attewell]

Allan, Rob’s got a “bad spell” fliter attached to the site (see what I mean?)

[Allan Weyman]

I think you’re right Leeroy I hop Rob has not got it switched on when he does his signwork!

Actually I think we should start a topic of our worse (or someone else’s) spelling mitakes, could be fun.

Allan

[Allan Weyman]

There you are it’s done it again, missed the ‘e’ off the end of ‘hope’

It’s probably my proof readig, there was an article in a trade press magazine I was reading recently, I can’t remember the figures but apparently you can delete well over 30% (or more) of text randomly in an article and the humun brain would still work out the message.

Allan

[Steve Broughton]

quote Allan Weyman:

There you are it’s done it again, missed the ‘e’ off the end of ‘hope’

It’s probably my proof readig, there was an article in a trade press magazine I was reading recently, I can’t remember the figures but apparently you can delete well over 30% (or more) of text randomly in an article and the humun brain would still work out the message.

Allan

I worked in print for more than 15 years, one thing I learnt, its impossible to proof your own stuff. 😆 😆 😉

[Allan Weyman]

Steve,

Point made, Point taken.

Allan

[John Singh]

quote :

It’s probably my proof readig, there was an article in a trade press magazine I was reading recently, I can’t remember the figures but apparently you can delete well over 30% (or more) of text randomly in an article and the humun brain would still work out the message.

There that must be two points for me 😆

John

[Allan Weyman]

It’s not me honest, it’s the computer.

Allan