Poster Printing

[David Rogers]

We occasionally print posters / bill boards on blue-back paper.

Run solvent though so it’s pretty much waterproof – any waterbased ink is going to run. Laser / copier is fused to the paper so pretty stable in moisture.

Coated will likely help a little, but run it under a tap & you’ll see.

Posters can last months or even years in the right location.

[Gordon Connelly]

Thanks David. In your opinion, then, would it be acceptable to supply pictures printed with aqueous ink on coated aquajet water resistant paper? They seem to be suggesting it’s waterproof…

Would probably be an idea to try this and see how it performs…

Interesting to hear what you said about lasers and their improved stability.

Thanks a lot! Appreciated.

[Martin Pearson]

What inks are you running in your printer Gordon?? If you are using aqueous pigment inks then you will get short term outdoor life up to about 6 months depending on location. The pigment inks are waterproof but the dye based inks are not. Laminating them with a uv laminate will increase the life span outdoors but you still wont get fantastic results.
I would try a couple of different types of media through the machine & paste them up somewhere outside say in your garden & see what sort of results you get. You can always print a comparison graphic at the same time & keep that somewhere indoors.

[Gordon Connelly]

Hiya Martin, good idea with the comparison.

I’m using the HP Designjet with pigment inks (I think HP call that UV ink). I’ll do what you say. I would rather avoid laminating, it just seems to add a lot of hassle and also adds to costs.

By all means tell me I’m stupid.

I did a test with adhesive vinyl that I printed to and stuck to foam board. I laminated one picture with the liquid laminate and the other the normal way with stuff off the roll. I then hosed them down for over an hour and both seemed totally perfect afterwards. I thought that meant I could use the same approach for van panels with printed stuff but I don’t know how meaningful my test was.

All good though, I like experimenting and I’m just killing time with this until my website appears on Google etc. I expect to buy a solvent printer soon too… probably second hand.

[Martin Pearson]

Gordon, do yourself a favor & stay away from printed graphics on vehicles until you have a solvent machine, people will tell you that you can do it & I am sure if the circumstances are perfect then you may get away with it but I just don’t believe it is worth ruining your reputation over.
Speak to any supplier & ask for them to give you something in writing about how long printed graphics will last outdoors if properly laminated with a good quality laminate & the best you will do is about 18 months.
I have a graphic on the outside wall of the unit which was printed on my Falcon 2 which is just over a year old. Still doesn’t look to bad but you can see that the reds are starting to lose colour & although I laminated with a quality laminate the edge of the laminate has started to come away from the graphic & you can see where the dirt has got between the two layers. Some folk will say it would have been alright if I had the laminate larger than the graphic so it was sealed to the substrate rather than just the graphic but I just don’t see the point in taking the risk.
I don’t get a lot of work for exterior printed graphics so can’t justify buying my own machine. If I do get asked I just use a trade printer & the prices are cheap enough that I can still make money on the jobs.
Posters for bands/gigs etc don’t really need to last that long so you would probably be ok without lamination of any sort. HP’s description of the inks is a bit misleading in that they are not really uv inks. They do give better uv protection than dye based inks but they are not the same as uv curable inks that you see used in printers where the inks are cured under uv lights.
Sorry about the long post but as you will find out printing is a huge subject.
Anything internal like pos, canvas printing, wallpaper etc etc then I wouldn’t hesitate using a pigment ink printer, there is still a place for them & they can still earn you money but personally I just wouldn’t trust them for anything outside unless it was very short term.

[Nick Eccles]

Gordon,

before we bought our solvent printer (roland VS) last year I experimented with some laser printer vinyl and waterproof posters (we have a good A3 Laser printer), when I tested them I stuck them to the bathroom wall and had the shower on them for a few hours !!

As for the results the stickers were ok, I even contour cut them on my plotter using regiatration marks, however they always produced a matt finsih and had to go careful handling them when fitting. I decided it wasn’t worth creating a bad reputation over them and only ever did a few for people I knew well and understood the limitations.

Now we have the VS the costs of producing are a small fraction of what they were with the Laser Printer.

Nick.

[Gordon Connelly]

Don’t apologize for the post being lengthy, Martin, when for me it couldn’t be. It’s great to read your opinions, they’re really appreciated. Only on here do I find people like you talking factually about their experiences with such things…

I like your points on what you say about using my printer being used for outdoor work. I was aware of issues but it’s good to see someone actually putting a measured time stamp on life expectancy.

We haven’t invested that much in all this stuff, I’d say about £10k so far. I was hoping what we have now would generate enough to buy a solvent printer but based on what your saying it might be worth forking out sooner rather than later. Problem is cost — got to weight up the risks of a second hand machine against the costs of a new one.

If the economy didn’t look so screwed up it would be a no-brainer but I’ve watched 3 or 4 of our biggest clients go under since 2013 started, with one of us owing us quite a few quid (funnily enough they were wholesale printers).

[Gordon Connelly]

Cheers Nick. I’d love to hear more about your tests. What did you print the vinyl stickers with before you got the solvent printer?

quote Nick.Eccles:

Gordon,

before we bought our solvent printer (roland VS) last year I experimented with some laser printer vinyl and waterproof posters (we have a good A3 Laser printer), when I tested them I stuck them to the bathroom wall and had the shower on them for a few hours !!

As for the results the stickers were ok, I even contour cut them on my plotter using regiatration marks, however they always produced a matt finsih and had to go careful handling them when fitting. I decided it wasn’t worth creating a bad reputation over them and only ever did a few for people I knew well and understood the limitations.

Now we have the VS the costs of producing are a small fraction of what they were with the Laser Printer.

Nick.

[Martin Pearson]

Solvent printers can be expensive to run if they are not used constantly Gordon, older machines the heads dry up & block, newer machines have maintenance routines to help combat this but your pouring ink down the drain.
I would use a trade printer for exterior graphics until such time as that side of the business grows to a level that makes it worth bringing in house. I only work part time so a solvent printer is not really an option for me but the aqueous printer can be left for weeks at a time without problem so happy to keep that.