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Plymouth;- 30ft Sign falls and badly injures women.
Interesting thing happened in Plymouth this weekend..
Bet someone had a telephone call they wish they never answered this morning…
http://www.thisisplymouth.co.uk/news/Wo … ticle.html
Woman claimed she was hit by falling club sign as genuine casualty was being treated
A WOMAN tried to claim that she was injured by a falling sign while ambulance staff treated a genuine casualty, police say.
An injured woman needed stitches to her head after she was struck by a 30ft-long sign outside the Reflex nightclub on Union Street.
Police say passers-by rushed to help the woman, who was trapped beneath the large wooden sign at about 11.15am on Saturday.The victim was taken to Derriford Hospital with a deep cut to the side of her head, which required several stitches. She was released from hospital later the same day.
A police spokesman said: “During the initial stages of the incident, a second female presented herself to ambulance staff, complaining of severe back pains and claiming that the sign had also landed on her.
“Whilst she was being prepared for a spinal board, officers discovered that the female was in a nearby building at the time of the accident and not involved at all.”
He said no action had been taken against the woman.
Passers-by who gave the injured woman — believed to be in her thirties — first aid until the emergency services arrived described how she was distressed and lying in a pool of blood.
RAF medic Dean Thomas, 27, had been having breakfast with his family in the Union Rooms when the woman was injured in the freak event.He said: "She was conscious by the time we got there. I think she had been knocked out and came straight back round. She was upset and lying in a pool of her own blood.
"The gash by her eye was pretty bad. If it had been one centimetre lower, it would have had her eye out. She’s very lucky."It was a very big sign, with nails hanging off the end of it, so it could have been a lot worse.
"I had a look at her head and stuck on a dressing, from the pub’s first aid box, to stop the bleeding and held it there until the ambulance arrived."
Police requested the presence of firefighters to secure the front of the nightclub, while paramedics treated the woman, believed to be from Plympton, who was taken to Derriford Hospital.
She was released later the same day after treatment to a cut above her right eyebrow and bruising to her shoulder, back and knee.
A police spokesman said: "It could have been a lot worse."
The sign has been seized and the Health and Safety Executive has launched an investigation.
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17 Replies
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Don’t know who put that sign up!
But! I think that they had better just bend over the table now! As it looks like their is going to be a very long line of people waiting to have a go -
WAS this sign…
http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=q&sourc … 68,,1,-0.9
Looks like the entire fascia front came off…not just the sign.
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It’s shocking the number of shopkeepers I’ve come across that think the answer to a rotten fascia is to get a new sign fitted. I’ve lost count of the number of times I’ve had to explain that the sign I will be fitting needs an underlying surface that is sound enough for me to fix a sign to. They seem to confuse the structure of a building with a decorative sign panel.
Let’s hope that the H&SE in their infinite wisdom will realise that the buildings underlying fascia structure was at fault and not automatically apportion blame to the sign maker. However, the way the report has been written – it would appear that the sign is being blamed?
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not us… but its underlay isn’t it
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no he means the bit behind the sign is lacking newness 😉
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I lost one job, but nearly 3 in the past 6 weeks for same phill.
wasn’t fascias though, it was projecting light-boxes. 3’x2′
it is a joke what some shops will ask you to fit a sign too.i agree it looks like it was the wooden shop front that has came away and not the actual sign. that has just been fitted to the fascia board.
as you say, lets hope the sign firm isn’t left with the blame. trouble is… did the sign fitters check the fascia board was sound before fixing to it?
the story could be twisted to be that the failure was in fact the wooden fascia, but the only due to the "added" weight of the new signage. -
very worrying stuff this as in the past even after recommendations i have fitted to existing signage frames im sure we all have at some point or other but its the same old thing the customer just doesn’t want to spent that kind of money and….. well like i say its worrying and given me personally thought for consideration in future.
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not 100% answer here but a properly typed disclaimer signed by the customer is the only way. either that or walk away…
the trouble is, when we do walk, along comes the next guy and shoves it up, gets paid and away he goes… you just need to swallow it sometimes and move on. ide rather walk than kill some old lady or kid… i know if a member of my family was killed or injured as a result of someones shoddy workmanship, ide be doing everything in my power to finish them. -
totally agree 100% mate id be the same…. like is say i think i need to sit down and get some proper disclaimer docs drawn up now.
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What was more worrying was the woman who tried to claim that she was also injured by the sign, when in fact she was no-were near the accident, whats even worse is that the cops didn’t bother to charge her,
In-fact wife’s just back from Blackpool and a taxi driver told her, That the new game a lot of kids are playing now, Is to try to get run over by a bus or car and they can then claim thousands from the drivers insurance, saying it was their faulty, That’s why I now carry a hi-def video camera in the car and cab with me its on record all of the time, That is until I do something wrong then it gets blanked..lol
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This is every installers worst nightmare isn’t it?
I really feel for the lady who was injured and the people that installed the sign.
Hopefully the installer had adequate insurance.
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quote Robert Lambie:not 100% answer here but a properly typed disclaimer signed by the customer is the only way. either that or walk away…
the trouble is, when we do walk, along comes the next guy and shoves it up, gets paid and away he goes… you just need to swallow it sometimes and move on. ide rather walk than kill some old lady or kid… i know if a member of my family was killed or injured as a result of someones shoddy workmanship, ide be doing everything in my power to finish them.Sorry but disclaimers aren’t worth the paper they are written on when it comes to H&S issues. IF the signmaker/installer was negligent a disclaimer will not save them, that’s why PI insurance really is a must for things like this. I do hope if the fascia was rotten that the property owner takes some if not all the responsibility.
RayRosher, makes you sick the lengths some people will go to these days just to line their own pockets. The problem has been made worse thanks to the ambulance chasing lawyers with "NO win NO fee!" bull. The other issue is these selfish greedy people making minor claims and getting a quick buck can’t seem to understand why their car and home insurance premiums are creeping up year after year.
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I had a job last year where the customer wanted me to fit a 14ft x 5ft dibond sign to a rotted fascia. He tried everything to get me to put it up even offering to sign a disclaimer without me even mentioning it. I even asked a builder friend of mine that was working nearby to give him a quote to replace it and he was told it could be done the next day. As usual he was not prepared to pay so I delivered the sign and left it with him and clearly marked the invoice supply only and got him to sign it.
Went past two days later and the sign was up, with screws everywhere it looked awful.
I cross the street now so I don’t walk under it.
Adam
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quote RayRosher:What was more worrying was the woman who tried to claim that she was also injured by the sign, when in fact she was no-were near the accident, whats even worse is that the cops didn’t bother to charge her,In-fact wife’s just back from Blackpool and a taxi driver told her, That the new game a lot of kids are playing now, Is to try to get run over by a bus or car and they can then claim thousands from the drivers insurance, saying it was their faulty, That’s why I now carry a hi-def video camera in the car and cab with me its on record all of the time, That is until I do something wrong then it gets blanked..lol
Police, ambulance, fire brigade and more and more large fleet operators now have forward facing CCTV on board as an insurance premium reducer…….. 😮
Still waiting for the Tories promise of removing the H&S burden by reverting back to a common sense approach. The "N0 win no fee" vultures have done nothing but push up premiums and make innocent people take the wrap for others stupidity.
As for the sign, its a tough call, suppose it depends on how long it has been up, but Im sure there will be repercussions for signmakers all over the UK should it be proved fixings, methods or material selection was to blame.
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Did a job in Aberdeen about 8 months ago, it had 5 signs, one on top of another.
Set the scaffold up and gang planked over the entrance. Three guy up on the scaffold getting ready to remove the first layer. BANG. entire sign’S land at our feet ontop of the scaffold.
F*$K 😮It sped the job up a lot but amazed me that the last sign was only about 6 months old , had these guy’s not looked at it.
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I agree that it would be unfair if the signmaker took all the blame for this but realistically where do we stand in this situation?
I’m not sure a disclaimer would hold up Rob and it may even be that the fact you got someone to sign a disclaimer would highlight the fact you were aware of a problem – meaning more of a problem?
Is the fascia classed as the fabric of the building? If so I don’t think we can be blamed for the building failing but I’m guessing this is a pretty grey area.
I’d appreciate any comments on this, I think this kind of thing where this forum can be invaluable (I also think that BSGA can be very useful here but I know not everyone agrees with that!) I would be very interested to see what the HSE decide, is there a way to keep an eye on this?
Gavin
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Definitely a nightmare for everyone concerned. I hope the injured lady makes a full recovery, thank God it wasn’t worse.
All we can do is speculate about the consequences now it’s in the hands of the HSE. Potentially there could be a fine for the sign installer and the nightclub owner if the HSE deems a breach of Regulation 3 of the Management of Health and Safety Regulations 1999.
I think this is the link for anyone interested:
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si1999/19993242.htm#3I’m not legal expert at all, merely expressing an opinion. I don’t think enough customers realise they have health and safety obligations to us as installers, and anyone else they employ to carry out work in relation to their business. It’s a real can of worms.
In an incident as serious as this, I don’t think signed disclaimers or signed off concerns will be enough to escape a punishment but I think it’s still worth doing to show you did all you could to express your professional concerns about the installation – got to be better than having nothing to show when the HSE start asking you awkward questions??
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