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Performing rights society and PPL
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75 Replies
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I thought they had succeeded with the Youtube thing?
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I so hope you are right Phil, my only worry is that they have already persuaded the powers thet be that they have a Perfect a Right to our Sodding money!
I had a phone call about a week ago at the shop asking questions about how many people hear the music played from my radio, the guy got off the phone rapidly when I said I was a one-woman band, but it was still very disruptive, and got me wondering whether I may be letting myself in for a load of ol’ B*ll^cks!!! -
Well I have always questioned the prs’s legitimacy,
on the grounds that if you listen to a radio, the broadcaster has already paid for a public broadcast license, so why should a company. playing the radio to "the public" pay again?I second the "Good riddance "
Peter
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Have I miised something re\\\\\\\\\\\; the PRS Pete?
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quote Lorraine Clinch:Have I miised something re\\\\\\\\\\\; the PRS Pete?
Dont think so Lorraine
(?)
Peter
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Sorry Pete, getting ‘interference’ on my ‘soundwaves!’
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You see the thing is, many artists actively promote their material through Youtube (Tom Robinson for example). Yet the PRS who supposedly represent these artists are now responsible for closing down a valued mechanism for free exposure.
I suspect many musicians are going to be pretty hacked off with the PRS.
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I just received a letter in the post today (dated 11/03/2009) from the PRS advising me that if I play music on my premises I would need to pay them for a license. (I’m just wondering if they read my post here the other day and are onto me 😕 )
The letter advises me that if I do not play music at this address I must contact them to advise them that this is the case…. I think I’ll do just that and send them an administration charge for my time in dealing with their request!!
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Dont turn the radio on in your van Phill! Is that classed as work premises??? 😕
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not sure if you saw the newspaper on Saturday, i think phill?
says that the won their case with youtube already and youtube will now or already have restricted music video access to all uk ip addresses as a result.
pete waterman was backing it, as are many others.they done the whole calling us up and quizing about number of staff, radios playing etc.
they later followed that up with a personal visit out of the blue some months later. -
quote Phill:The letter advises me that if I do not play music at this address I must contact them to advise them that this is the case….Like the TV Licensing gestapo, they want you to go on record so that if they call round, and catch you with a radio playing, they will have caught you out in a lie. That makes it easier for them to prosecute. Ignore the request.
As with the council smoking inspector, anybody that calls around here is likely to need police protection.
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Thing is the letter was sent to my old address (we get the mail re-directed) and as we are no longer at that address I can confidently state in repsonse to their letter that we do not play music at that address.
..and here is my invoice to cover my admin fee 😛
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quote Phill:..and here is my invoice to cover my admin fee 😛
You know better than that Phill.
Nothing less than full payment up front. 😀
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Just out of curiosity, has the prs ever prosecuted anybody and won?
or is it an automatic fine?
and if so what penalties are incurred?
I can understand the you tube thing, but not being alowed to play the radio to the public is a bit different as they radio station has already paid to broadcast to the public?Peter
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Just had a phonecall from this lot. They began by advising me the call was being recorded for "training purposes".
Bottom line is they phone up to try and "catch people out" in the hope that music is being played in the background.Just be careful out there
😕 -
did you have piped music on your phone while they were put on hold 😕
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They turnover more than a million pounds every year. Not bad for a company/charity that don’t actually do anything but extort money from small businesses in Britain!!
In 2007 they employed on average 4 people throughout the year. Hardly a large organisation yet they appear to have the resources to constantly bombard certain individuals with letters and phonecalls – this is verging on harassment I reckon. I believe their strategy is to home in on certain areas and keep up the pressure until the business concerned submits and pays their licence fee before moving onto their next victim. Year on year they will eventually build up a huge quantity of "licence" payers.
They claim to represent the interests of British musicians, when in reality only musicians that sign up for membership of the PRS will ever receive any royalties. So what right do they have to insist on royalties even if (for example) all you play is albums by American musicians that are not members of the PRS?
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Many years ago , 1987, I had a small shop. Knowing the problems the PRS could give me I rang them up and asked them to come and assess my shop and see what I must pay. It was only me and my wife working there so I though we would not pay anything. ( No paid staff). PRS came and we had to pay. Why? Because we were entertaining our customers with music.
We used to listen to Radio 4 most of the time and for music we used a cassette player. The radio was there so we could "potentially" play music from it. Music from the cassette player was covered by the PRS too. Even when we had bought the tapes. No getting away from them.
I am sure that now days, if you have no radio or music player in your shop or workplace , you have a computer and that can "potentially" play music. Bet you have speakers with it????
They are out to get us. The slimy little jobs worths.
Earl. -
quote Earl Smith:you have a computer and that can “potentially” play music. Bet you have speakers with it????
thing is mate, they already have that covered… about a year ago they got AOL for a free radio channel they had on their homepage for UK customers.
cost them 3 million i think… KwikFit got slapped for a couple of hundred thousand for only a half a dozen outlets… and now as phill points out at beginning of this thread Youtube [although i tend to agree with that one to an extent] the list goes on. -
What I was trying to say there was that even if I had the radio turned off and just standing there not being used I would have faced a fine. I was able to turn it on and entertain my customers. Ok this was back in 1987. My have changed now.
Earl. -
Word on the streets is that they’re currently targeting the Luton area of GB 😕
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quote Phill:Word on the streets is that they’re currently targeting the Luton area of GB 😕Word on the street lol… not from the radio then?
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Yeah
had a call from them this morning!Peter
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quote Peter Normington:had a call from them this morning!
Me too.
Couldn’t hear him over the sound of the radio though. 😀
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quote John Childs:quote Peter Normington:had a call from them this morning!
Me too.
Couldn’t hear him over the sound of the radio though. 😀
I did wonder if you could listen radio but through SSB or a notch filter, you hear the talk fine but the music will sound crap! Does it state that I would need to hear the music as it was intended?
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I have a license from them but when the years up I’m going to send them an invoice for promotion. I play the music for the artist and customers hear it and go out and buy the record, thats promotion.
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quote Martin Oxenham:I have a license from them but when the years up I’m going to send them an invoice for promotion. I play the music for the artist and customers hear it and go out and buy the record, thats promotion.and how much do folk get paid for promoting stuff like Nike, Dunlop all over their clothes, boots and even their hair
This seems a little one way
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quote Dave Rowland:I did wonder if you could listen radio but through SSB or a notch filter, you hear the talk fine but the music will sound crap! Does it state that I would need to hear the music as it was intended?Hmmmm, do I detect a radio amateur de GW0ACH/GW8VBV dah di dah
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quote Dave Rowland:I did wonder if you could listen radio but through SSB or a notch filter, you hear the talk fine but the music will sound crap! Does it state that I would need to hear the music as it was intended?
Hmmmm, do I detect a radio amateur de GW0ACH/GW8VBV dah di dah
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quote John Cooper:Hmmmm, do I detect a radio amateur de GW0ACH/GW8VBV dah di dah
You might.
de G4RUS
😎
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mornin all ex-G0UBF! … -.-
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Afternoon -ex-Gobbledygook
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just come across this site
and http://pro.jamendo.com/en/product/publicspace
Basically this Jamendo seems to allow public to upload music and share them, the second link is about background music for public places (workplaces?). I suspect will stick to the radio and PRS as we cant really control what the staff want to do.
Just another thing while I am on the music thing, I now use free Spotify account for music, quite an easy way of finding an album in hi-quality, they make money from advertising. http://www.spotify.com/en/
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I’ll keep that link
Thanks Dave -
quote Dave Rowland:Just another thing while I am on the music thing, I now use free Spotify account for music, quite an easy way of finding an album in hi-quality, they make money from advertising. http://www.spotify.com/en/Not available in my country yet (hot) 👿
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It seems that playing music is a bit like buying gas or electricity, you can buy a license entitling you to play music on your business premsises from different suppliers. 🙄
Had a phonecall from a different crowd yesterday called PPL (www.ppluk.com). Similar spiel to the PRS…..
I wonder, are they targeting signmakers at the moment? Be careful out there 😕
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Had both PRS and PPL on this week!
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quote Gavin MacMillan:Had both PRS and PPL on this week!
had OMD, PHD, REM, ACDC & ELO on this week… 😕
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quote Robert Lambie:quote Gavin MacMillan:Had both PRS and PPL on this week!had OMD, PHD, REM, ACDC & ELO on this week… 😕
ROTFLMTO
The licence is not a new thing, i can remember my old boss when i was a trainee hairdresser said he had to pay because we played LP`s in the saloon, and that was in 1978
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i should add, yes Phill, we had them on again this week too. so judging by you, mine and gavins calls, they are very much targeting the sign industry in at least scotland just now.
the girl in the office says they were even asking do we have "call waiting" music when we put folk on hold. which we did do a couple of years ago but removed it due to this too.
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I have four of those poxy call centre calls on monday and Tues, just hang up on em before they’ve said owt now, might have been them but, Mondays seem to be the worst day for telesales calls!
the "we’re calling you on behalf of bt" ones annoy me the most, trying to save me money on my bt line which is only ever used for incoming calls or freephones… will they take ‘No!’ for an answer? bell ends!
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Had them on yesterday and today.
No, we don’t play music in the shop. No, we don’t have hold music. No, we don’t sit watching TV…
…at least the ‘payment protection claims’ calls have dried up…5 or 6 a day we were getting at one point.
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hi its the business directory
we just want to check we have all your details correct….patter patter
…….looking forward to you renewing your subscription againMe: What subscription?
Them: The one you took out in November last year
Me: What date was the payment so I can check my statements
Them: (the sound of the phone hanging up) -
How did you get my number?
Which business do you represent?Are you aware my business is registered with the Telephone Preferance Service and breaching that can result in a £5000 fine?
They apologise and hang up.
I have to admit I sometimes enjoy winding them up.
John
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quote John Thomson:Are you aware my business is registered with the Telephone Preferance Service
very good point John… :lol1:
I remember standing in my mates kitchen and a call came in. he is as wide as the clyde… and just replied…
"hi james, thank you for your introduction mate… im mark and i work for BT, can i ask what phone system it is your using just now?… you dont know? thats ok, well can you do me a favour and lift phone and tell me the long code on the bottom along with manufacturers name?"
:lol1: how quick do they hang up in disgust you have the audacity to ask what they ask? :lol1: :lol1: :lol1:
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If the wife’s around, which is normally the case as they phone around the time that dinner has been served and eaten (around 7’ish) then I love to play the old man who’s hard of hearing.
I put the phone at a distance and on loud speaker so they can just about hear me and vice versa.
I pretend I think they are the glazers coming to fix my window or the plumber coming to fix a leak
The wife’s listening in the background in hysterics
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the one that always works "hello sex shop!!" 😀 phone goes quiet…gone :lol1:
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quote Nicola McIntosh:the one that always works “hello sex shop!!” 😀 phone goes quiet…gone :lol1:
yeh but thats you phoning the sex shop nik. 😉 :lol1:
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quote Nicola McIntosh:the one that always works “hello sex shop!!” 😀 phone goes quiet…gone :lol1:
thats your other job lol
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quote Denise Goodfellow:quote Nicola McIntosh:the one that always works “hello sex shop!!” 😀 phone goes quiet…gone :lol1:
thats your other job lol
:lol1:
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ha-ha how do you think i go about with a smile on my face 24/7 :lol1:
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quote Nicola McIntosh:ha-ha how do you think i go about with a smile on my face 24/7 :lol1:
think theres a pill for that one. which im sure your other job/shop will sell nik. 😉 :lol1:
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You need to consider all those cleaners, kitchen workers, labourers, and others doing menial jobs. Music just puts ideas in their heads and distracts them from their responsibilities. Maybe they can learn to sing like the folks that worked in the cotton fields used to…
If you were a musician, would you want to think your music was making the swinish multitude’s lives more pleasant without you getting a few pennies?
We need to bludgeon it into people’s skulls — everything, absolutely everything, from the water you drink, to heating, pleasure, shoes, health, education, dental care, blood, and even music, comes at a price.
Ideally they would put some sort of meter on our hearts and charge us for every beat it makes, one unit cost that covers everything. That would simplify things. If you don’t pay on time…. well… The only question then would be who pays for the funeral.
Oh, btw, merry Christmas everybody… And a happy new year too.
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the thing is, "how much of the money they recoup in royalties actually ends back in the artists pocket?" the company chasing the fees due, take their cut, then everyone else behind the artists, then the artists get their tiny slice.
i have spoke to some folk that are successful in the music industry as well as others in similar set-up and the cut is very small. arguably, a cut of something is better than nothing. 😕we have no problem in keeping our staff up-beat…
one has now learned to beat-box, another plays a vinyl core tube like a didgeridoo, whilst another has vamped up his own WRAP version of "hi-ho…hi-ho its off to work we go" all this is being sinq’d with the sound of cracks of my whip and barks of the pit-balls. works a treat and they all thank us when leaving work at midnight each day of their 7 day week. -
Hi Rob,
I think you’ll find that a public performance of Hi Ho, Hi Ho will incur a royalty charge… I believe Disney own the rights to that. The charge will depend on how many people you expect to experience the performance.
Seriously, though, you’re right. The artists basically get zilch. MCPS and PRS make plenty though. It’s another trough/racket, cloaked in the usual, loving language of rights, justice, and protection.
A lot of charities are in that category too, with directors etc on funny money. If as little as 2% filters through to those they claim to represent, they go all teary-eyed and congratulate themselves. It’s all too familiar but it’s the self-righteous tone and pious faces rather than the fleecing that bugs me.
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quote Gordon Connelly:Hi Rob,
I think you’ll find that a public performance of Hi Ho, Hi Ho will incur a royalty charge… I believe Disney own the rights to that.Exactly Gordon, but seeing as i was part of the Seven Dwarfs cast, I have nothing to worry about. 😉
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If I said that you’d prolly ban me…
When you say you were on the cast, are we talking about the kids version of snow white or the adult version? 😮 😮 😮 :sleep3: 😮 😮 😮 😮
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Look Gordon, let’s get some things straight here mate…
Snow White was my bitch but was cheating… Willie-Wonka took half my lads over as Umpah-Lumpah’s during the legal battle. all that is behind me now and no, i do not get any further royalties as a result, but i do still earn a healthy living via Royalties as Tom thumb. I also wrote the script for "Honey i shrunk the Signmaker" but as usual, Disney put a twist on it or ide have cashed in! 😕 -
PRS stuff happening here too (AGAIN) and we just moved.
In my old unit (on my own 80% of the time) with just a reasonably noisy printer, i did turn on the vac table and running a radio was more or less impossible. I used wireless headphones but not all the time. I missed out a lot on radio, no idea what some of the hits are so my pub quiz knowledge suffered.
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quote Dave Rowland:I used wireless headphones but not all the time. I missed out a lot on radio, no idea what some of the hits are so my pub quiz knowledge suffered.
:lol1: :lol1: :lol1:
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[quote="Robert Lambie"
"Honey i shrunk the Signmaker" but as usual, Disney put a twist on it or ide have cashed in! :-?[/quote]That explains a lot i take it the machine got taken before you could reverse it 😀
Kev
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I am currently being harrassed by the PPL. I had three calls from them yesterday and another one today.
I have now reported them to the telephone preference service as our work number has now been registered with TPS to try and avoid these unsolicited and unwelcome calls.
I can’t believe their cheek. I told them to stop recording the call and they refused saying they did not have to seek my permission to record the conversation. However, my understanding is that is illegal to continue recording when told not to do so.
I would urge everyone to register with TPS and automatically raise a complaint against these bandits if you ever get a call from them. In a recent high profile case a company called DM design was fined £5000 for nuisance calls. Perhaps this is the only way to hit back at these people seeing as they appear to be able to harass anyone they like.
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Maybe they heard you singing this Phill
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article … -song.html
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look out boys, looks like signmakers are on the PPL target company list,
had them on the phone yesterday when i was out and member of staff told them we did not have radio, stereo, hold music etc but they still rang back this moring to talk to me who told them the same.
so look out
Paul
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we had them a few years back, they rang almost every day, proberly trying to catch us playing music…
my husband shouted down the phone at them and they never rang back
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Yup we had them again yesterday – so that’s four times since last wednesday. I’ve already reported them to TPS (twice) and I am secretly hoping they’ll call again today so I can raise yet another complaint 😕
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perhaps I could use this to stop my stepson from singing at work
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What happens if you play royalty free music? I don’t but gave a few musician mates who could give me something to play while I left the knob on hold on the phone! Phones me twice in two weeks.
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At our old print work we told them that staff wear earphones and listen to their own legal purchased music, so therefore no license required 😮
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Below is a copy of PPL annual report from 2011. It’s a very lucrative business.
Most interesting part is on page 17 where you will find the average earnings of its 260 employees amounted to £42,090 That probably explains their persistence 🙄
But the really greedy ones are the directors – £1,666,000 was paid out in directors emoluments (posh word for dosh) with the greediest (I mean highest paid) earning £745,000
:vomit:
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I had my first call from them today. Why do we have to pay twice for our music? Rip offs and why they are allowed to do this I have no idea.
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Record the call as a .wav file and use it as your ‘hold’ music…that’ll freak em out. 😀
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There back… We had a phone call today from either ppl or pms music not sure as someone else took the call they were told we do not have a radio in our staff canteen, office or workshop they then asked if we had any iphones, ipads or computers on the premises. They are very pushy tring to catch you out so look out guys there targeting the Essex/London area now.
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quote Phill Fenton:£1,666,000 was paid out in directors emoluments (posh word for dosh) with the greediest (I mean highest paid) earning £745,000
:vomit:
PPL is a racket
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