Opinions on separation issue

[Chris Wool]

looks like a fair test to me, have they seen that.

chris

[Stuart Taylor]

quote Jason Xuereb:

Can I get your opinions on this issue?

http://tiny.cc/e4AqW

Arlon have tested the vinyl and their own tests have concluded there is no problems with the vinyl.

I think its an utter joke to be honest.

Hi Jason

Good demo and comparison between the good and bad product.

Was this the Arlon 6000 or 6000X version ? Surprised at Arlon stating there are no issues with the product – We are a Distributor of 3M and Arlon and the 6000 series is pitching against 3M 180 Controltac, both products classed as "repositionable" and clearly in your video the second sample applied could not be "repositioned" – At this stage of application the bond of adhesive/film should be much stronger than adhesive/vehicle which it isn’t in your second batch. This is what "repositionable" adhesive are designed to do !

Are you dealing direct with Arlon or through a distributor ?

I would definitely go back to your supplier – If this was a problem experienced by one of our clients in the UK I would not let the manufacturer hide from such an obvious adhesive delamination issue which must be in the manufacturing process not the application or conversion process.

Hope you get some more positive reaction soon from your supplier

Stuart

[Jason Xuereb]

Hey guys,

The arlon rep came out to see us when we were having the issues during an install. Basically they tried to pass the buck.

I had this reply this morning to that earlier visit two weeks ago:

quote :

Jason I received the findings from the US about the roll of 6000X you had issues with. The results of the tests completed were that the adhesive was of ‘regular composition’ and showed no compromising defects which would have contributed to the performance of the adhesive or the face film.

Thats it in an email. No phone call or anything. I made this video today because since that visit I have found a few metres of 6000x I didn’t have any issues with from maybe 6 months ago.

That’s why I have made this video to document the problem and that in the past I have never experienced the problem.

I am also bemused at their response because when I brought it to their attention at that time I wasn’t even seeking compensation. I was seeking a reassurance that we would not experience these problems in the future because I want to have faith that when I do a vehicle wrap its going to perform as advertised.

At first I got told my lack of out gassing was the problem (over 48 hours). Then I got told my application tempreature was too cold (14 degrees celcius not ideal but within the application range). These samples are un printed and un laminated. In my video i also show the tempreature of the surface this time 28 degrees celcius.

There are people in the united states having the same problem:

It seems to coincide with the introduction of arlon imprinting their logo on the release liner. I never had an issue with the 6000x with no arlon logo on the release liner.

I just wanted to get your opinions on it. I hope it really gets sorted because I was a big fan of this product.

[Alex Tucker]

Hi Jason,

I can’t speak on the adhesive sep problem as we didn’t see that when we used the 6000x but we did notice that when the logo started to appear on the rolls that the product was never the same.

We had a roll of the 6000x when it was first released and we loved it but as soon as we ordered it in for a few jobs we got a very grabby vinyl which was never as nice to work with as the original test roll. The only physical difference we could see was that the logo on the release liner. I don’t know if this helps at all.

Hope you find resolution as we couldn’t so we went back to using Avery 1900 and DOL.

[Jason Xuereb]

Hey Alex,

I felt the same. The adhesives are different. The newer feels mushier or softer like. I could still work with it but when the adhesive separates from the face film I just can’t recover from that.

[Alex Tucker]

yeah totally agree, also it would be a nightmare to strip when it comes back to you in a few years, you’d be high on Orange peal for a month!

Pity about the issues as the Arlon 6000x gives a great finish and holds the print well even when heated around bumpers and wing mirrors.

[Jason Xuereb]

Yes I brought that up also in discussions and I was clearly told that the 6000X is not a removable product so they do not garauntee that the adhesive will come off. Going to have heaps of fun stripping the vehicles.

Great to know now.

[Jason Xuereb]

My supplier has fixed this for us. But it doesn’t leave a lot of faith in Arlon themselves resolving situations like this in the future or letting their consumers know of a problem when it occurs. We’ve tested a few additional rolls and they seem to be ok. It looks like this issue is limited to a certain batch of bad product.

A few more people have experienced the same issue is lesser degrees and accepted it as the adhesive as being too aggressive. Separate of the vinyl from the adhesive should never occur during application unless of course you leave it overnight and then try to reposition.

[Alex Tucker]

glad you got sorted dude, but even leaving a vinyl overnight still should not show separation of the adhesive, I don’t know your experience on this but when we strip a wrap we try to never leave any adhesive behind but the bare min. We switched from Oracle to Avery for this very reason.

Can’t imagine the nightmare if you got that amount of Arlon adhesive left behind as in your movie, we’d need a full day and a lorry load of orange peal to strip a wrap.

[Jason Xuereb]

Yeh I guess I’m going to find out in a year when it needs to be stripped. I’ve stripped 6000X before and never had this issue. Sure you get some adhesive here and there but generally its removed with the face film.

[Alex Tucker]

do you guys laminate your face film or do you wrap without?

mod-edit 1 please read board rules :police3:

[Jason Xuereb]

Everything gets laminated. I did it unlaminated in the demo to show its a fault in the film and not the converting process.

[Alex Tucker]

nice work dude, how long are you wrapping? Your overlaps are pretty neat and your curve work is very smooth, good flat contra work too, do you have any issues with visibility?

We always try and put the text on after the wrap as it makes it easier to position and when the client comes back to say they gave us the wrong phone number it makes it easier to fix 🙂

mod-edit 2 please read board rules :police3:

Sorry Rob

.

[Jason Xuereb]

Hey Alex,

I have been wrapping for I guess one and a half years. My first real wrap was a motorcycle then I did our company vehicle in December of 2007.

I’ve got maybe 10 or so vehicles under my belt now.

[Alex Tucker]

soooo many rules to remember.

You are really doing great for only 10 vehicles under your belt, my new fitters need around 5-10 vehicles just to get good enough to complete a wrap, great going dude. If you ever need any help or need to bounce ideas please let me know (unless you plan to set up shop in Dublin of course 😀 )