Ooo dear. How did this happen?

[David McDonald]

Hi mate

Had this happen once before with a white colour change on a BMW 1 series, it took 5 days to strip! Never could figure out why it happened and it was the normal vinyl we always used and vinyl from the same batch on other vehicles was fine.

Can’t help you but Pane, but we shared your pain!

BTW not sure who manufactures the glue remover that Metamark sell but we’re finding it’s excellent stuff.

Cheers

Dave

[Pane Talev]

Hi Dave. This is a first time in 25 years I experience such a thing. The more heat I apply, vinyl was getting harder.

I’m ok with avery glue remover but in this case I cannot get to the glue. I need liquid that will go trough the laminate and vinyl (something applied with roller perhaps)

[Chris Wilson]

Signgeer do.. think it’s called crystal-tech.. or maybe that’s the one for chapter 8 kits. Anyway the idea is you apply to vinyl, leave it a few minutes and it turns to gum that just falls off. However we got it in for this nasty truck that had reflective text writing and it didn’t work. Maybe we did it wrong.

Wallpaper steamer would be worth a shot.

Cheese wheel would do it, but you get some cheese wheel pro thing. Looks like it would smash through it better but I don’t think it goes in a drill.

We had a similar issue ones with Avery 1140 or 50 or whatever there wrap is. We tried it on our wee and then got bored of the design and wanted something new. It was a nightmare to remove. But it didn’t leave glue. I’d hold out some hope for the others. If others have experienced this using same batch of vinyl and one was fine but other was a nightmare, I’d be pointing fingers at the paint. Paint jobs on vans are getting pretty bad at minute. We had a new caddy in just the other day that had paint runs all over it. Dribble after dribble. We bought a black van. Basically blow on it and it comes off. I’d be scared to get it polished, even t-cut would take it back to primer.

[Pane Talev]

Thanks Chris.

This is the first case where the wallpaper steamer didn’t help. Vinyl was getting harder. I will call Signgeer on Monday. Thanks

[Tim Hobbs]

Hi Pane

It’s odd isn’t it, that sometimes it goes like this. I feel your pain.

We have used this stuff for years. Love it. We get it from a local motor factor. It’s great for removing tar and any stubborn glue which is latex based. You must use nitrile gloves though. Latex ones get eaten as you would expect.

[RobertLambie]

Hi Pane

Just so I can have a think on this, what type of printer did you use for this?

Looking at the pictures, please correct me where I am wrong.
1: The van is light blue.
2: The wrap is printed solid black with text.
3: The white area covered in the adhesive is the digital vinyl, the vinyl that was printed onto. And where you have stripped the vinyl, only the laminate has come away and is also lifting the ink from the digital vinyl?

Was the van new with a factory paint job? by that I mean it was the sprayed the pastel blue colour I can see, because pastel blue is an unusual standard factory colour for a van.

Regarding the Tar and Glue remover that Tim mentions, I use that too, it’s great stuff. You can buy it from auto car valet type suppliers, or janitorial suppliers. but make sure you get a decent branded one as there are many “weak” alternatives.
Also as Tim mentions, use latex gloves and splash goggles because it burns like hell if it touches your eye in the slightest. ( yep, I have the T-shirt for that too 😳)

[Pane Talev]

1: The van is white

2: Wrap is printed, right door black , left door light blue. Vinyl comes off super difficult even in the folded areas that I have pushed inside. (Edge of door)
3: Vinyl comes off equally difficult everywhere.

5: Printed on Mutoh Valujet 1624x

6: Laminate doesn’t pull ink. Clear Laminate does come off the print in the areas next to the glass.

Important for me to remove the plastic part of the vinyl. The glue I can remove easy. Will your recommended product go trough the vinyl?

[Pane Talev]

This is how the van looks

[RobertLambie]

Hi Pane

Thanks for the feedback mate.
Having read your reply I totally see that I had “visually” misunderstood what I was looking at! 🤔🤣

I think it is more important to give a reason for a failure, rather than just a solution to fix it.
However, I am not set on exactly why this happened because one theory contradicts another.

You have exactly the same print, vinyl, and laminate on two surfaces, installed at the same time.
The wrap was removed from the glass “exactly as it should have”. But failed on the paintwork.
This tells you that the surface of the painted doors has created a reaction to the adhesive of the vinyl.
So the blame for the failure is not the vinyl.

Vehicle Paintwork:
Paint is like solvent print, it outgassing long after it has dried/cured.
You should never apply vinyl graphics to a vehicle within two weeks of it being painted.
You should never wrap a vehicle within 4-6 weeks of it being painted.
However, this is greatly determined by the method of drying the paint. i.e. the type of paint, was it in an oven, air-dried or whatever?
Without being technical, the paint must release chemicals into the air long after it is dry.
If you apply vinyl onto the surface, these chemicals are trapped below the vinyl.
Because the chemicals must get out, they cannot penetrate back into the vehicle metal, so pushes forward into the vinyl. This can result in micro bubbles in the vinyl days/weeks down the line.
However, if there is an “air release system” in the adhesive, perhaps it’s enough for the blisters not to show. Regardless, the chemicals in the paint often react with the adhesive of the vinyl and can stimulate it creating a stronger permanent bond.
I have even seen this happen with “magnetic panels” left too long on the surface of a re-painted vehicle and the magnetic panel won’t come back off, and that doesn’t have adhesive!

Polish:
If these vans have not recently been painted or fresh of a production line. Then the next thing that can cause a reaction is the vehcile “might” be coated in some sort of vehicle polish or chemical that has reacted with the adhesive causing a similar problem as I have described above.
I could say that it may be whatever you have cleaned the van with having an effect on the adhesive, but the fact you cleaned the windows with the same, tells you it wasn’t your cleaner.

Printer:
Your machine is a solvent printer and if the inks have not out-gassed long enough before lamination. this is most likely the cause. because the solvent in the ink definitely has adverse effects on the adhesive.
however, if this was the case, there are normally tell-tale signs on the surface of the vinyl also.
i.e. shrinkage, delamination tunnels, curling back, bubbles and more.
However, the fact none of this had the same effect on the windows, again, rules this out too.

Summary:
I do not have a definitive answer for the failure. But what you have to accept is that if a failure is happening on one flat surface, and not the other, the issue is created most likely by something happening on that surface. I.e. the paintwork or chemicals used on the paintwork reacting with the vinyl adhesive.

Removal:
3M do a paste that you apply to the surface and it bites into the surface of the vinyl making it soft and easier to remove. I used this years ago and as much as it helps, it leaves lots of adhesive.

Vinyl-Off, by crystal tech. I used this about 10+ years ago. bought it directly from them in America.
Worked a treat on cast vinyl on box trucks. However, I have seen recent ads about it being eco-friendly etc. so it might have changed its formula. which I have NOT tried. but let’s assume it is exactly the same stuff. Please follow my instructions or it just does not work as it should.

The ideal place to do this is in warm direct sunlight. turn the van to the sun if possible.
If you have any plastic surfaces below or around the area of the vinyl you will be removing. mask them off with tape or whatever, basically, just cover up these areas.
make sure the vinyl surface you are removing is “clean” even though you are tearing it off, it must be clean.
using a typical spray bottle, spray the surface of the vinyl with “vinyl-off” in a “mist” fashion but be sure to cover the whole area.
Leave the chemical for a minimum of 15 minutes to allow it to penetrate the surface. longer may be needed as you have 2 layers of vinyl/laminate.
Start to remove the vinyl and it should come away easily and remove the adhesive at the same time.
if any adhesive is being left. try changing the angle/direction you are pulling the vinyl off.

Using vinyl off in a shaded or cool room just doesn’t work the same. but if done correctly, it works excellent. my only hesitation is that I have only used it on one layer of vinyl, never laminated. but it was a 10-year cast vinyl colour change wraps on multiple trucks. it is certainly worth a go!

Note: Vinyl-off must be cleaned from surrounding surfaces after you have removed the vinyl. this is because if it has been sprayed over things like black plastic bumpers, it will continue to penetrate the plastic, softening it and bleaching/discolouring it.

hope this is of some use to you Pane. best of luck mate.

[Pane Talev]

Thank you Robert for this detailed explanation. Thanks all who replied. We struggled bad on this one. 3 more to go. I hope they remove better! 😉

[RobertLambie]

Did you manage to try the “Vinyl-Off” liquid, Pane?

[Pane Talev]

Hi Robert. No. The 3M stuff was not in stock, plus the small print was not clear on damaging the paintwork etc etc, so we decided to do it the hard way.

[RobertLambie]

The vinyl remover I am talking about is not 3M mate.
If you want, send me your postal address and I will send you a bottle to try. as long as you are stripping it in a warm room or in direct sunshine. I would be interested to see if you get the same results as me.
nothing ventured nothing gained!

just send me a PM if you want and ill pop it in the post. I am not looking for anything for it, I have had it for many years now because I bought a large box of the stuff directly from America.

[Pane Talev]

Thanks Robert. Happy to. PM sent.

[RobertLambie]

Thanks, Pane. I will get it posted out to you today mate. Hopefully, it will help you! 👍