new starter HELP!!

[Rick Cousins]

Hi Lee

I would recommend that you got some experience in a busy sign firm first. There’s a lot of pitfalls out there and a lot of competition too!

I have been in the game for 3 decades and I’m still learning – it’s what makes the trade so interesting!

Regards
Rick

[Gary Birch]

hi
I actually bought an existing business albeit a failing business just over 3 years ago. I had absolutely no experience in the sign trade but as a time served engineer was good with my hands. I found the transition very difficult indeed and given the time again would not build a business in something I have no experience of. Now over 3 years later on I am probably in the position I should have been in back then.

My advice is get some experience and then if you like it go for it. My business has really taken off this last year and continues to grow. But one thing is for sure if I had have had experience back then it would have grown a damn sight quicker.

Hope this helps and ain`t too much waffle lol

Cheers

Gary

[John Harding]

Go for it – nothing ventured nothing gained
I started 5 years ago having watched someone else do it for half an hour, made some mistakes but no regrets, good friends on UKSB have helped no end along the way

John 😀

[LeeMorris]

Yes this is a good site for info and the users seem really helpful.

I do work at the moment i have a well paid job but not rewarding, so would have to do signs part-time to start.
What would be a good cutter and software to start out with, without breaking the bank.
Cheers Lee
Any other info and help would be great!

[Nicola McIntosh]

quote leemorris:

Any other info and help would be great!

hi lee 😀

your best bet would be to take out a membership, as u would have access to demos and other invaluable stuff that would help, well worth it 😀

nik

[Lynn Normington]

Hi Lee :welcome: as Nik say’s join up and you will have lots of info available. It may also help if you decide which part of the graphic vinyl sign world you want to go into vehicle graphics etc. this business is so diverse
good luck with whatever you decide, feel free to ask any questions they will always be answered 😎

Lynn

[LeeMorris]

Yes i will be upgrading my membership didn’t realise the other options when i joined.

Any info on what cutter to buy. i take it you get ones know that print and cut but must be a lot more money.
You do see a lot of signs now with full pictures on them , banners and vehicle etc

Will i be turning down work if i don’t have a printer cutter ?

Thanks Lee

[PaulWilliams]

Hi Lee,

I am also a newbie here. Luckily it isnt all hands to the deck for myself. I have bought a budget cutter and using it for my car owners club only for the moment. I will continue to do this for a couple of years and hopefully get a little extra work for more funds for the club. If this looks promising over the next couple of years I may then take the big plunge.

The guys on here have been more thgan helpful to me in the last few weeks (and friendly too). I have only taken the bronze membership out for the moment but can see that being upgraded in the future when I start/need to do a couple more advanced jobs.

Goo luck!

[David Rogers]

quote leemorris:

….. Will i be turning down work if i don’t have a printer cutter ?

Thanks Lee

No, not at all. For a new start just stick to buying in your print. Find a good supplier that gives a good product, on time and sell that for a while…at least until you see if you have the market to pay for the initial outlay of a decent printer plotter.

You can get a reasonable quality, yet fairly cheap 600mm plotter for well under £1k. Normally with some signmaking software thrown in. There are lots of cheap ‘n’ cheerful ones out there and they are fine for occasional use or to tide you over for the first year or so, but don’t expect pro-quality cutting and a long lifespan if you use it all day every day!

Several members opted for a P-Cut – they seem fine, but are an absolute nightmare (aparently) to install & get running right.

Good makes to keep an eye out for on the used market are Roland, Graphtec, Summa, Mimaki & Gerber.

All the best anyway. Best advice I (and others) tend to give is "don’t be a cowboy signmaker!" Trade on service, quality and then price. That way your reputation will be for being a GOOD signmaker, not a cheap one!
Look at other signs around you – see what works & ask yourself why it works, and conversly – why the duff stuff doesn’t so you can adopt a style that is yours to develop.
Get a couple of suppliers for every product, and try to use vinyls that will be a credit to you. Personally I won’t stock under a 5-7 yr, some others only stock 7+ as there market dictates that material. Don’t get suckered into ‘cheap material = good for business’, you saving 20p a metre can be the difference between repeat business & the word spreading that the lettering came of the last van you did!

Dave

[LeeMorris]

Thanks David
People on here are so helpful
Last year i purchased a shop sign and A board for a shop my partner opened up.
The shop sign was that thin it was wavey and the A board fell apart within months . so was not a good sign maker . You live and learn cheapest isn’t best in long run

[Ian Hunter]

I bought an existing business with a friend from my brother5 years ago.He had been established for 15 or years. Fortunately he stayed around for a couple of months and showed us the ropes.
Like everyone else says after a few mistakes you soon learn.
We started with very old plotters and an edge become proficient with these then slowly replaced machines ,software and about a year ago bought wide format printer.
Still enjoying it.
As a new member I also did not know there is an "advanced" membership

[Dave & Rob Lowery]

Hi Lee,

If you join up and pay your dues, you might find this link is just what you are looking for:

https://www.uksignboards.com/viewtopic.p … 249#178249

[Gert du Preez]

Hi, Lee

Doing the actual work is not really a problem. Logical thinking and "stealing" with your eyes should see you through. The problem comes when you have to quote, or advise people. Sometimes a quick 1 hour job can take you all day! Best way to learn is the deep end!! Talk, read, listen, look as much as you can.

[David Rogers]

quote GERT DU PREEZ:

Hi, Lee

Doing the actual work is not really a problem.

It is if you don’t know your cast from your calendared or Gloss PVC from acrylic. Or can’t weld script text together….etc. etc. etc!

quote :

Logical thinking and “stealing” with your eyes should see you through.

Good for a start, but then develop you own style

quote :

The problem comes when you have to quote, or advise people.

Not really, you know your overheads, you know the materials cost…and you know what YOU would want to be advised of if YOU were buying that sign. Think like YOU are the customer…would YOU buy this sign, with this design, at this price? If not…don’t be surprised if you fail to attract many customers…if you wouldn’t buy your own stuff – nobody else will!

quote :

Sometimes a quick 1 hour job can take you all day!

Yup! But the more experience you get – the better the estimated times & costs will become

quote :

Best way to learn is the deep end!! Talk, read, listen, look as much as you can.

It’s how most of us learned!

[LeeMorris]

So what is the difference between these materials

[David Rogers]

quote leemorris:

So what is the difference between these materials

OK. Gotta think about what I don’t think about here!!
PVC (PolyVinylChloride) comes in several formats for signmaking use, most notably:
Foamed – a medium density sign board.
Gloss Foamed – Glossy finished & can look a little like acrylic from a distance, but still the same stuff as the cheaper non-glossy beneath the shine. Identified with a simple touch or looking for any bowing in the material. A dull thud when tapped.

Acrylic – ‘perspex’ – looks glossy, (normally) but more rigid, very dense & higher quality then PVC. Sounds a bit like glass when tapped.

The differences between the vinyls is in the molecular composition. Won’t bore you with needless manufacturing methods…

Calendared comes in two grades: Monomeric & Polymeric…nearly all are polymeric these days, so much more stable in lifespan & use.

Cast vinyls are MUCH more flexible, conformable & have a greater lifespan than calendared materials.

On a roll – they look the almost the same, but when handled, the cast is softer, usually thinner & stretches more easily.

Give an experienced signmaker a piece of most materials and they can identify the type quite accurately. There is even a difference between cast & extruded perspex, and clear polystyrene. They may look the same, feel the same…but they have totally different cutting, drilling & forming properties. eg. Cast smells quite sweet when burnt or machined, extruded less so….polystyrene stinks!

It’s the little things like this that can save a lot of bother when asked to replace an existing sign in the same material…or chosing the right materials (plastics or vinyls) for the right job.

All comes with experience and a desire to learn.

[Aaron & Chris]

Lee, go for it mate!! 😀

We started with no money, no customers and way too much ambition! Jacked the jobs in, they were pants anyway 😀 Started working from a spare bedroom.

Now 2 an half years on we are in 1000sqft premesis, working for some of the biggest companies in our area. You’ll learn very quickly when your mistakes cost you money, the uksb are priceless and will stop you making mistakes if you ask the right questions 😉

You’ve got to have b@lls mate. Be prepared to pay yourself nothing, work all ours and deal with more sh!t than a pooper scooper!

You could do what others have suggested and work in a busy sign shop, but that means having a boss and we had enough of that in our last jobs! (:)

Anyway, whatever you decide to do, be sure to do it with 100% commitment and don’t rip people off 👿

Aaron 😀

p.s. Don’t be shy in asking for help on here, we have all done it and always will 😉

[LeeMorris]

I have run a business before landscaping but it was giving be back trouble lifting concrete etc: So i decided to get a job. I do miss the buzz of working for yourself. My current job is very easy work doing shifts and my salary is £30’000 .
Can i earn this kind of salary from signs ?
I wouldn’t mind earning less for job satisfaction

[Andy Gorman]

£30,000 a year as a signmaker?

Yeah, it’s possible. That could mean a turnover of 40-50 thousand I reckon. That’s a lot of work to obtain from a standing start. Especially for an unskilled signmaker. Of course, you’d be lucky to earn anything for the first few years.

That’s got me thinking….I wonder what sort of turnover one man bands generally do…….

[LeeMorris]

I wouldn’t expect to earn anything like that at the start. I would have to do this part-time and get the experience. I am really interested in vehicle graphics and thats where i would like to start, Don’t know if its the best starting ground, all those curves etc
Lee

[Peter Normington]

To earn £30k a year you must be dedicated and prepared to work on average 4 hours a day,
Ok this is how it can work,
Do one simple transit for local business people every day, 5 days a week,
Equation = 245 per year @ £140 each = £34300 less materials, so yes if you have the customer base, it’s easily achievable. OK I have not taken overheads, etc. into account , but do your own maths, then make an informed choice…

Peter

[Andy Gorman]

You’ve made the point I was trying to make Peter, only better.

It’s a lot of work. Blimey, I don’t think I’ve done 245 vans in 3 years and I already knew how to do the work, well sort of! 😀

Customer base is the thing, how do you get that working part time?

[Peter Normington]

Some days I work overtime and do 2 vans! 😉

The £30K Salary is achievable, But as in any start up business, you need to set realistic targets, and be able to support yourself untill you get into profit. It will take at least a year to get established, longer if you start of part time, dont forget though there are still a few tax advantages by being self employed, as well as a few disadvantages over being employed. All of which need to be considered.

Peter

[David Rogers]

quote leemorris:

I wouldn’t expect to earn anything like that at the start. I would have to do this part-time and get the experience. I am really interested in vehicle graphics and thats where i would like to start, Don’t know if its the best starting ground, all those curves etc
Lee

Peter’s idea of vans is a good one!! Most vehicles aren’t difficult, curves or not…it’s a steep learning curve. What is the difficulty is designing something that’s saleable and makes money, and then get more work through recommendations – after that your reputation will start to turn £30ish of vinyl and 5 or 6 hours into £250 without too much hassle.

Like Peter, some days you’ll do a couple of them.

I did two on Saturday, one on Tuesday, and today I did two liveries. The REACT landie – cost about £45 in materials, took 6 hours, including designing, cutting & application – won’t say what sold for as they get a ‘special rate’, but otherwise it’d be a £200+ job. Also did some fancy tribal/scroll work on the sides of a transit campervan – under £20 materials – 3 hours start to finish – £160…basically easy money.
The first few years here were a rollercoaster of being swamped & then absolutely nothing until I sorted out a customer base & referrals gained momentum – now most of my vans are referred from previous clients, or from somebody asking "who did your van".

Dave

[John Childs]

Yes, £30k is achievable. Easily.

The thing is how quickly you can get there, and that will will depend mostly on how hard you are prepared to work, but also on how lucky you are.

I won’t say how many vans we did today because it is immaterial to a one man band, but the work is out there if you go looking.

I have always preferred vehicle work because it carries automatic repeat business. Even my smallest customer, the likes of the local electrician or plumber, is back every three years or so, whenever they change their van. On the other hand, in eighteen years I have never had to replace a sign that I originally sold.

[LeeMorris]

I’m not saying i want 30k to jack in the day job. i would do it for less if i get job satisfaction. My current shift pattern 6-2, 2-10, 10-6 means i get time off around work and every 5 weeks i get ten straight days off . i could even design the garphics at work on my laptop, when on afternoons or nights. then i could fit them in mornings because i have to start work at 2pm.

Thanks for all the help.

[David McDonald]

Hi Lee

I started my business 11 months ago and already have 1 full time fitter, 1 part time fitter and an accounts/admin person doing 20 hours. Turnover for the year will be somewhere 6-figures but as for having made any money yet then I decided to write off this first year and every penny goes back into the business. But I’ll start year-2 with almost everything I need for a while; tools, design software, accounts software, no loans, staff , machinery, van, fully fitted workshop, stock, ladders/platforms, mature advertising, repeat customer base, good referals etc. etc. All depends on how much effort and time you want to put in to get things going – I may even take my first day off next year!!

Good luck
Macky

[Gary Birch]

Did you have any sign experience ??

[David McDonald]

About 10 years ago I had a job selling Flexi-sign software and Mutoh/Graphtec plotters for a year – so a little bit of knowledge albeit old knowledge. But have a lot of sales and computing experience, plus good DIY and general design / art skills. Don’t under estimate how important the sales side of any business is.

Cheers
Macky

[Andy Gorman]

Very good point. I’d gladly sacrifice some of my signmaking experience to have more sales skills. I would say that has been the hardest part for me – getting the leads. Never gets mentioned by the newbies. The first question always asked is ‘where can I get a cheap plotter?’. There’s much more to it than that, much more.