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New signs express shop email policy
We have a new signs express shop in midlands in Ireland.
They have persistently been spamming local businesses with unsolicited emails.
I know this for a fact, because even my sign company has been sent several.
Is that normal practice for Signs express franchises?
Where do they get their mailing lists? -
44 Replies
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It’s a legitimate form of marketing surely?
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It’s against the law Kevin afaik
http://www.out-law.com/page-4062
The regulator takes a dim view of this activity too. -
Sorry Phil
Unsolicited emailing or spamming is strictly against the law.
Doesn’t say much for the professionalism of start up businesses being encouraged to do this to the point of being supplied with the necessary list and templates to carry this out -
I’m pretty sure Phil advocates this marketing method in his new book "How To Setup A Sign Express Franchise without the Franchise Fee".
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quote KevinGaffney:Sorry Phil
Unsolicited emailing or spamming is strictly against the law.
Doesn’t say much for the professionalism of start up businesses being encouraged to do this to the point of being supplied with the necessary list and templates to carry this outAs a group we do us email as one way of promoting the business and we also ask for referrals to send information to. Any promotional email sent by a Signs Express Centre also has the unsubscribe option so that companies can opt out if they choose to. Any web enquiry we receive also asks permission to keep companies informed of promotions and developments.
Not sure where you get this information from, "to the point of being supplied with the necessary list and templates to carry this out", Yes we have templates for all our centres to use but we don’t provide lists of contacts for them to email.
The fact that you have received an email highlights that we need to look at the data capture of that Centre, if you would be kind enough to forward your email address I’ll make sure the system is purged and your contact details removed.
If you feel that this does still not address the issue please feel free to contact me directly.
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quote Jason Xuereb:I’m pretty sure Phil advocates this marketing method in his new book “How To Setup A Sign Express Franchise without the Franchise Fee”.
Hi Jason – Phill’s book highlights this in section 14, page 143; the email bit not "How To Setup A Sign Express Franchise without the Franchise Fee". 😉
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Hi Craig
I’ve checked with other business colleagues and they have also received unsolicited emails from Signs Express.
Blanket emailing even with an unsubscribe button, is illegal and not even ethical.
Perhaps, your members should be informed of this as it calls into question their business practices -
You can’t spam people with emails unless they have given you their email and authorised you to send them to them. This is called permission marketing. They then must have the right to unsubscribe at any time they wish. It does not matter how you dress it up or what reasons you give for doing it. It is illegal.
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Driving at more than 70mph on the motorway is also illegal – but most of us do it 😉
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some interesting reading here especially this part
But you can send unsolicited marketing emails to companies or individuals within companies – though doing so may not be good for your reputation.
http://www.businesslink.gov.uk/bdotg/ac … =RESOURCES
😕
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Interesting point Phill. Where do you draw the line with what is acceptable behaviour? It’s clear where Signs Express do.
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Hands up those who have never done a leaflet drop door to door?
Hands up those have never done a mail shot via the post?
Hands up those who have never stuck up a roundabout banner advert or even lamp post advert?i doubt many, if any can say yes to all of the above? if so… there is no difference to sending an email doing same.
i am guilty too… its part of trying to promote your business. wrong or right.
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Ok Robert. Leaflet drops are NOT illegal.
Unsolicited spamming IS. There is a difference. It’s ok for these Franchises to operate under one set of rules while the independent sigmaker is supposed to stay within the law. Unbelievable logic -
Most annoying thing it seems is they didn’t mail with an option to opt out in the future.
And how much of this cr*p just slows down the Internet.
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They actually did with me. However I tried to unsubscribe but continued to receive it. How dumb anyway to send this to your competition with links to a website showing pictures of completed work in the UK, and not one job these local guys had done themselves. Talking about looking professional
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quote KevinGaffney:They actually did with me. However I tried to unsubscribe but continued to receive it. How dumb anyway to send this to your competition with links to a website showing pictures of completed work in the UK, and not one job these local guys had done themselves. Talking about looking professionalBy any chance did they also send you the complete mailing list, or did they actually use a group address or bcc…….?
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Legal or not, sticking paper through someones door asking them to contact
You is no different from an email in you inbox. In fact I think most find this form
Of spamming worse. Being legal, doesn’t stop it being spam.As I said, as businesses we are all guilty of it in some form or another.
I think the gripe here has more to do with it being sent from the competition more than anything else.
I’m not knocking you for that, I have plenty signmakers on my own doorstep doing same, much worse actually, but
But ill not loose sleep over, survival of the fittest, and all that.
😀 -
No comment 😉
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Look on the bright side if they have so much time for sending emails they mustn’t be very busy 🙂
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quote Jason Xuereb:Look on the bright side if they have so much time for sending emails they mustn’t be very busy 🙂
Good point! 😀
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So when you subscribe to magazines like Sign Blink and visit events like Signed UK, do you tick the box "Opt In" to marketing calls or get confused with the sentence that explains the calls 😀 😀
Btw. those who have paid me to hack into Robert Database, sadly I had to send those chq’s back. :lol1:
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Kevin
These are the crew you need to contact: http://www.dataprotection.ie
this is a link to their complaint form:
http://www.dataprotection.ie/docs/Compl … rm/455.htm
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Graeme. Good point, I will check that one later tonight.
Thanks Dorian for the link.
Rob, that’s fair comment but my main complaint is how a large franchise can advocate illegal marketing strategies. I don’t blame a new franchisee doing whatever is required to generate business but surely they should be advised when they are operating outside the law. It also begs the question, what other advice they are being offered re the sign industry.
I couldn’t care less about the competitor thing, cos I’m 25 years in the business and thankfully quite well established -
I actually replied to this thread in more of a humorous note, because as I said, I personally think all types of businesses are responsible for some form of spamming. Myself included…
All due respect Kevin, but your complaint is simply that “your email address has been included in a couple of email campaigns sent out by one of your local competitors”, because lets face it, at this point in time you are “simply implying” that a head office is responsible for this email mistake in some form or another, whilst suggesting other irrelevant accusations. Which I think is taking things a bit far…
I dont know what some of my employees are doing one minute to the next… never mind 80 different companies dotted all over the UK. :lol1:anyway… im not rubbishing your complaint mate, just think it’s a tad much.
If it persists, i am sure a simple email to head office will rectify your spam email. on that, can you not just check the email box and click, "this is spam" job done? -
Shane’s not saying much 😕
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quote Phill:Shane’s not saying much 😕
:lol1: :lol1: :lol1: :lol1:
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surely you could just delete it 🙄 lets face it how many e mails do we all get every day and just delete it’s not a huge problem is it 🙄
Lynn
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Instead of guessing what marketing your competition is doing…….now you know.
john
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quote John Thomson:Instead of guessing what marketing your competition is doing…….now you know.john
Spot on, I get emails from rival suppliers all the time, good way of seeing who is doing what and for how much.
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quote Robert Lambie:Legal or not, sticking paper through someones door asking them to contact
You is no different from an email in you inbox. In fact I think most find this form
Of spamming worse. Being legal, doesn’t stop it being spam.As I said, as businesses we are all guilty of it in some form or another.
I think the gripe here has more to do with it being sent from the competition more than anything else.
I’m not knocking you for that, I have plenty signmakers on my own doorstep doing same, much worse actually, but
But ill not loose sleep over, survival of the fittest, and all that.
😀Still illegal
Peter
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Peter, and You have never, "even in the slightest", broken the law in your life to put food on your table or make your business successful peter? 🙄
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I know I’ve said it’s illegal but realistically I can’t see what the fuss is about. Just delete the dam things if it bothers you that much.
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OK I started this topic so it’s probably time to end it.
Why do some people on this board feel comfortable with supporting marketing tactics that are clearly illegal. Do you draw the line at robbing fonts, designs. Clearly newcomers probably need educating re their marketing strategies. However I’m more than surprised at some of the flippant comments I’ve seen over the last few days.
Does this mean, as some have suggested, it’s ok to speed?
Doest it mean it’s ok to use pirated sodftware?
I wonder -
merry xmas
😀
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Kevin, from personal experience.
I had a franchise open up not 300 yards away from me several years ago. I was miffed when told that they were approaching all of the local businesses in person, and when a shop owner (now this was from one of my customers) told him "we use Dave" then proceeded to remark that I bad-mouthed other sign businesses (which frankly was untrue).
Hey – it closed a few months back (for whatever reason) – some of the lads there set up a similarly named operation, bought the van & re-liveried it…and I got on OK with them last time we spoke (we’d shared a boss in the past).
I feel from reading this (and feel free to deny) that you are less bothered about the legality and more bothered about the apparent directly aimed threat to your business from their aggressively pro-active approach…otherwise you’d just hit DELETE & assign them to the spam bin. I get on average 30 ‘spam’ emails a day from various sources. Stuff to make my waistline thinner, my hair thicker & other things bigger, LEDs from China, inks from Bangladesh, website analysis, 419 scams…the list goes on…and if I got marketing spam from another local sign company I’d be on the offensive and have a rant too…and dream up schemes to counter it…then go, "Ah, stuff it, why waste my life on what others have done…99.99% of people just bin this crap anyway"
As others have said – nobody here is totally squeaky clean in business or in life – however upright we try to be…there’s always something. Speeding – another topic for another day.
Whether it’s the copyrighted image you printed, the font a customer brought in that you kept, the CD compilation in the car that you don’t own the originals for, the video you taped off the telly in 1990 that’s in the attic, the ‘free for individual use" software that you use for business…Yes, their activity is illegal – and annoying. Contact the head office – it’s in their best interests to put a stop to it…after all, it’s their trading reputation.
Dave
(wooo-hooo – now on holiday-ish)
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We have a signs express just around the corner from our Welwyn Garden City office and quite often we find out that we are both quoting the same works, sometimes they win sometimes we win, this is fair i would be worried if one was always winning as this would indicate that there prices are to low.
Regards
Russell.
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If a franchise setup, yes they are most likely to make an impact on us, but the fact that they can get the addresses is down to what marketing options that business has purchased with Yell/Magazine subs/sites that sell on addresses, then someone like sign xpress can buy that address for 1-20p each, you can find many places where you can buy addresses (inc email). How many calls a year do you get from business research people?
Then again, a feature in the local paper would just have as big impact…
its Marketing to me, but yes it would feel unfair and would get me angry but in the end i just have to get on with the job.
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To be fair to Kevin he has raised a point that we need to look into, I’ve no wish to break any laws and if we or our centre owner have interpreted any legislation incorrectly that needs to be put right by us– I have already contacted the centre involved and I understand Kevin was removed from the mailing list after correspondence on 19th October.
My understanding is that 4 group e-mails have been sent since the centre opened some 6 months ago (1 of those being to customers that had purchased) again as stated above, we are seeking independent legal advice on the issue to double check where we stand.
Wishing everyone on the Boards a Merry Christmas and an improving and Prosperous New Year.
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quote Russell Huffer:this is fair i would be worried if one was always winning as this would indicate that there prices are to low.Regards
Russell.
Or the loosing quotes were to high?
Peter
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Hi Craig. Nice to see someone eventually getting the point of my post. You can probably save yourself some time and legal expense by checking with your internet service providers. I think you’ll find they all take a dim view of spamming and may block service if reported.
However, I’ll be curious to see what your policies will be in the future regarding this matter. -
Kev, i do not think it s a case anyone [eventually] "getting your point" mate.
I think its more a case of the following quote posted by Dave, as i personally think, and judging by some other replies "think", more along the lines of what Dave has posted mate.
Again, please don’t take my reply wrong, i mean no disrespect at all, you have your podium, we are simply giving our views in response.quote David Rogers:I feel from reading this (and feel free to deny) that you are less bothered about the legality and more bothered about the apparent directly aimed threat to your business from their aggressively pro-active approach…otherwise you’d just hit DELETE & assign them to the spam bin..
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Kevin, although you have made a valid point it is unfortunately going to fall mainly on deaf ears, most people will see it as a case of someone having a moan because they have another competitor on their doorstep to deal with. It won’t make any difference to how the franchise operates either because at the end of the day the Franchisor is pretty much bullet proof and if there is any come back it will all be down to the individual store. From what I have seen each Franchised store of any Franchise can be cut lose anytime it suits.
As there is a lot of money at stake here a lot of people are never going to tell you their true feelings either so the best thing to do is just forget about it and get on with life. Sorry but that’s just the way the world is. -
quote KevinGaffney:Sorry Phil
Unsolicited emailing or spamming is strictly against the law.quote KevinGaffney:A couple of years back, I fitted a 24ft * 2 ft aluminium sign on a warehouse for a new customer. After a couple of months, lots of promises and no money, I headed to his premises, took down the middle panel and brought it back to my workshop. He then rang me, hurled lots of abuse at me. I explained when I got full payment in cash, he could collect the panel and refit himself. It took him four or five weeks to pay up and called me a few choice names as he handed over the money. Now I do’nt know the legality of this approach, but I still smile when I think of itSo you’re as "squeaky clean" as the rest of us then :lol1: :lol1:
i.e. … if it gets results…..
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hmm taking part of a sign down, i guess that could conclude to a part payment lol interesting approach.
Dont worry Kevin, think you made a good point in your early posts, however the support didn’t go in your favour although another time it might lol. Lets move on!!!
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