New Computer – New Software

[buffnutt]

Dont forget to get a really good graffix card, it will make a hell of a difference when working with big images. more speed more money!

[kev hoy graphics]

quote :

We are probably going to go the Signlab 7 route from Graphics advantage 6.2. I have read a lot of you use Corel too, but as I’m fairly familiar with Photo Shop and Paint Shop I will probably go for the latest versions of these.

The plan will be to set up a seperate workshop for the versacamm/cadet (There’s another big issue) and keep the the existing cutters and computer where they are so they can continue earning.

i am in similar position as you mate. i think i am going to purchase a cadet but with the troop RIP. using corel or photoshop as my design package. much cheaper than signlab & better built for image work.
cadet or verscamm is another point. i have decided on the cadet because i think in the end it offers more for the money as way of durability.

as for the computer, i think it is wise to contact the people that sell you the printer to make sure it is up to the job. most suppliers will have a minimal requirement spec on machines like this.

the wisest move i would give you to to read all the back posts on this site. you will find very unbiased opinions from people running the machines. talk to any supplier and you will only be told the ups! never the downs of the machine.

[storeinet]

If your a Graphix advantage guy blow out signlab, we have had nothing but problems importing -exporting between the two.

| understand that if you go for the cadet, flexi is is the way to go, have a word with Brian at Impact.

I can’t answer for ver 7 signlab but if it’s anything like ver 6 r 13 leave it alone. then you have to think that ver 7 of signlab has been out just a few months and theres an up-date 2.

Cadlink need to sort out it’s software before release, and the up-date should be free before going to the next ver……..

never again….

Dan

[Rodney Gold]

Essentially , the biggest performance enhancement with digital printing is processor power , the faster the processor , the faster the RIP speed (and believe me , some print files get huge , like 3 gigs for the print file alone).
HD space is next , at least 120 gigs of fast drive and then memory (you wouldnt run anything less than 512 megs)
Your puter you specced is more than adequate for this application.
Any reasonable graphics card will work well and what increases in speed you will get with one of them is program dependant The latest versions of photoshop , corel etc will perform better with better graphics cards , but nowhere near the speed increase you will get with a processor upgrade. As to RIP’s , well you can get WASATCH (colorip) free so you will have a choice of what to use.
Your biggest problem re RIPS etc is to find ICC profiles for the media and the RIP that work really well.
In my opinion , it’s better to tweak Colorip than to use a proprietory RIP as it has mnfgr support etc. I havent used the troop rip so cant really comment that much on this issue at all.
I think signlab is expensive for digital printing only (I run ver 5 and dont know exactly what 7 offers in this regard , but for me to upgrade all my modules would cost a lot) as packages like Corel 12 , Photoshop CS etc are more than adequate to run these machines and are industry “standards”. Most of your files will be print files with very few cutting apps (cutting takes a lot of time vs printing especially small step and repeat jobs) and any cutting features in a package can be ignored generally unless you want to use the same program to run multiple machines.
We love signlab for its engraving features but use it as a “back end” , IE a program to interface with our NC machinery rather than a design package.
Be aware many files come in ready to print form from ad agencies and the like , so whatever you use must import these seamlessly and be able to export in the same manner. This is far more important than their design capabilities.
We run multiple instances of the RIP on a few computers and also have a dedicated puter that acts as a RIP station and a print server. Im not sure whether you can configure the Versacam as a network printer , but if you can , rather run it off a hub as a device on the network.
Initially , as you play , keep the design puter near the printer unless you want to be running back and forth loading and checking on print quality/colour etc.
As to a workshop , by far the most important factor is dust. The vinyl becomes statically charged and picks up dust like you wouldnt believe , will make printing a nightmare. Fumes too might be a problem with an agressive solvent printer , even with our eco-sol printer , you can smell it. Well ventilated climate control and an ioniser is recommended.
Somewhere nice and warm to hang or store prints till they dry is also advised.
To convert graphics you are going to need other stuff like a trimmer , a laminator (despite solvent) , panel saws , an operator or print minder , layout areas, colour management hardware/software , samples of display systems and so forth. Make provision for this.
Im gonna get jumped on here , but I don’t believe there is a significant advantage to going for a modded model.
I have been using eco-sol inks from when they came out and have had no complaints or comebacks from unlaminated printed graphics. You lose all factory support and gain nothing in terms of cost of consumables and still have a graphic that is subject to attack under harsh conditions (albeit a little more durable)
There are always issues that the salespeople tend to dismiss or ignore with ANY machine and it’s only once one purchases one that these tend to surface. The biggest problem however is the jump you take from cutting to printing , it’s not the same world at all. There is a bewildering choice of media , display options and one has to jump into another mindset. No longer are you concentrating on sheer signage , but are competing in many other areas. From screenprinting to POS display. One is going to find very stiff competiton from others already in the field as to pricing and experience. A marketing plan is vital!!!.

[Steven Platt]

By jingo! Thanks for the replies.

Right, to address some points and parade my ignorance…

I was under the impression that most graphics cards are 3d accelerators and as such wouldn’t make much of an impact processing raster files?
So I was thinking a basic on board g. chip or 128mb `cheap` card would suffice.

I have been lurking here for a week or two and believe me I’ve read plenty on the Versacamm vs Cadet issue. Thing is I still haven’t come to a conclusion which is the best for us.
I must say the inks do seem expensive. I was thinking that there was a possibility of doing prints for artists, posters etc, but the price we’d have to charge for this would seem only feasible for very short runs. I know that for an artistic print you are supposed to use inks with a 100yr life or s’thing so I guess both machines are out for this kind of work.

We do a lot of vehicle work, so the machine we buy will be doing a lot of printing and cutting, I imagine we will also do a lot of safety signs on the thing as at the mo we are making these by layering up vinyl. Not ideal.

It appears I also need to do some research into RIPS. As I understood it a rip `simply` converts your design into something the machine understands, I was under the impression that colour profiling and matching media would be fairly easy. I think the plan was to get `favourite` types of media and always use them, so once the software is set up we can just click print and out it comes.

The point about converting from GA to Signlab is also worrying. It has been presented to us as a seamless crossgrade. I’m not sure just how much file porting we would be doing but I think file compatability is v.important.

As we are increasingly doing more banners it has also crossed our minds to go for the bigger brothers, the grenadier or SC540 instead.
More cost and a bigger laminator required.

We had considered the dust issue, if it does become a problem we would have to build a clean room or even a large perspex box to sit the printer in. Fortunately we have a large-ish unit so these problems can be sorted.

It seems as soon as I think I’ve got to the bottom of a can of worms I find a bigger unopened one just around the corner!

On the marketing front, I think we have the luxury of not having to find x number of jobs for the machine straight away. It will be something we will be able to build up and hopefully win a few new contracts.
The main point of going digital to us is to not lose customers. It would only take one big customer to request digital and for us to decline to cost us dearly.

Back to some intensive head-scratching!

Thanks all, and special thanks to Rodney for such a detailed response.

Splatt

[Rodney Gold]

I would go for a better card for a few reasons , number one being the ability to get sharp hig rez on decent screens. Digital printing requires some sort of monitor calibration and excellent detail , the old 14/15/17″ wont really do and a good DTP type monitor wont run ell on an onboard chipset or wont be as effective.
Ink prices will come down for eco-sol inks , same as they came down for full solvents. In terms of using the Lyson inks the grenadiers etc seem to do , there are bulk feed systems as well as pretty cheap aftermarket equivalents. Once again , using less than OEM or *certified* materials puts you in a position where durability and other factors become an issue apart from any warrantee claims.
Giclee type archival printing can be done on inkjets , but as you say , require archival inks. Any artwork that will be framed and enclosed by glass and printed on decent media will survive longer than expected if out of direct sunlight. Short term lower rez posters are also possible and economical if you can get media prices down. We pay under a quid per sq meter for decent stock.
For vehicle work , don’t even think of not laminating whichever machine you buy. Safety signage which generally isnt abused is fine whichever way you go.
The RIP does convert , but there are a zillion other factors to consider , far to extensive to go into here. Suffice it to say the the RIP makes or breaks the machine, its absolutely VITAL!!!
For banners , the versacam wont cut it in terms of width and speed. In that case go for a bigger machine.
Banner work is absolutely cut throat in regard to pricing and buying a bigger and faster machine means that in essence you want to go after high volume bigger jobs , buying one just cos it has the size capability is wasted money (like if 5% of your jobs need to be wider then 30″). The increased turnover might not actually generate more profit. (added to the fact that the trimmers etc need to be bigger and thus capital investment is a whole lot more)

[David Evans]

Dan, Are you running Signlab 6.0 or 6.1. you will have problems going from Signlab to Omega / Advantage. But in 6.1 when we released our thermal product for the Edge we did a lot of work on our plt import filters.

If you are using 6.1 and having problems importing from Omega or Advantage, please e-mail me the problem files.

FYI, The second release of Signlab 7 was not because of the number of issues report, but was because we added support for some new optical cutter and a new printer port mechanism. These require a patch, so we included any bug fixes up to that point. But we where under no pressure with Signlab 7 to release a patch because of bugs. I know that has not always been true in the past, but Signlab 7 was and is the best Signlab release we ever had.
We will have two further patches this summer planned, both are again because of new auto registratoin systems.

Splatt if you have an Edge or will do a lot of cutting and / or contour cutting work with the Versacamm you will be better off with dedicated Sign software like Signlab or Flexi.

If on the other hand its mainly for streight printing, with simple cuts you will probably be better off with Corel, Illustrator and PhotoShop.

But FYI, Signlab works better with PhotoShop than Corel.

Best regards

-David Evans
Cadlink
Printing products manager.