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need help applying wrapping vinyl please?
I’m sure this topic must be posted on the signboards in the past but i cant find it !
Just had a go at wrapping the back doors of a new LDV Maxus (not the easiest vehicles to wrap for a first time im sure what with the deep recesses n all) anyway after a third attempt it was looking a bit better. Unfortunately we ‘only’ have a 750 cadet printer so assembled the 3 printed sheets required with a 10mm overlap.On applying the the print to the doors particularly in the recesses with the heat gun where the print is joined immediate delamination is a serious problem.The join is well heated and the air squeegeed out even pinned to let any excess air escape however moments after all appears well it bubbles up and before long balloons out. Are we missing something ? Some bubbling on flat panels is also a bit of a problem.
Im aware working with a big sheet of printed vinyl will create air pockets but to use a straw technique to allow the excess air out in recesses is extremely fiddly ?? Am I right in assuming its better to heat the vinyl in the recessed area and apply one firmish sweep of the squeegee? It seems the more you heat and more strokes required to remove the air the more immediate delamination you get ?? We’re guessing that doing this maybe reduces the tackyness of the vinyl wrap ?
We’re using proper quality wrapping vinyl and laminate so at a bit of a loss as to what is happening. Does anyone else have a similar problem using such a small printer when joining prints together to wrap ?
I think a course is required now, however after a days frustrating ‘wrapping’ Im rather curious to know the answers (impatient you see !) -
17 Replies
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What vinyl were you using? I have a couple of theories on this which I will expand on later.
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Hi Phil – thanks for your reply.
We were using Grafiwrap 3951 with its laminate but just used image perfect IP2507 and its laminate from Spandex – both about 100 microns in total.lee
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I assume you thoroughly "cooked" the first panel into the recess(es) before you applied the second panel, and so on?
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yeah cooked completely. have worked out theres a fine line in the cooking department regarding heating it so that it will feed in ok and heating it too much and squeegeeing too early so that the material gathers as the material becomes too soft. once its gathered thats it – the only way to ‘recover’ it is to pull the vinyl back.
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As we have had this happen before on various materials I’ve given this subject a lot of thought, and my own theory is this:
When you’ve blown in panel 1 thoroughly it will then have lost its memory and should theoretically stay there forever ( assuming the panel was cleaned properly prior to application) The problems come when you start applying the second and subsequent panels. It appears that when you heat in the second panel the heat transfered around the area your heating actually lessens the adhesion on the first panel, I expect your finding that the lifting is restricted to an inch or so of the overlap, so in a nutshell it would seem that panel 2 is actually pulling panel 1 away from the vehicle.
This is just my own personal theory and I doubt if any manufacturer would ever admit to this being possible as the effect it could have on vehicle wrapping would be enormous if it was ever admitted that there is no such material out there that you could guarantee this wouldn’t happen with.
It would be interesting, time & customers allowing , to apply just one panel per side per day and see if the time lapse between panels would lessen / eliminate this problem.
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As an afterthought, it seems to happen a lot more frequently on printed vinyls than coloured vinyl – maybe the inks contribute in some way to lessen the adhesive qualities.
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interesting theory Phil. i was wondering if, where the printed sheets are joined (giving a double thickness) the heat that is required needs to be more to compensate – however, if you use more heat then you stand the chance of burning the surface of the laminate.the more you heat and squeegee to try and get the thing to conform the more it seems the adhesive on the back fails.
just a thought. -
Maybe it would be better to heat the panels enough to get the vinyl into the recesses and then when they are all on go over them with the cook-to-memorise amount of heat?
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I may be talking a load of pants here, I have never done a wrap, wrap. But because I use a gerber, tiling is a way of life. I always join the panels before shaping them into a recess, Just my non experienced comment,
peter
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Peter, do you not find you have to use an excessive amount of heat to get the "double layer" area into the recess compared to the single layer around it, in other words you are in a possible danger of blowing a hole in the single layer when bringing the overlap up to enough temperature to conform.
If vinyl tapered at the edges in such a way that the 10mm of the overlap was the same thickness as the single layer then I think there would be more of a chance of ongoing sucess. -
Phil, what you’ve just replied to Peter is exactly the problem. It does appear a fine balancing act on heating the ‘double’ layer part so that it will conform to the recess and not over heating the overlap edges that are single layer.
I suppose as the sheets are laminated on the overlapping part there is effectively four layers. vinyl plus laminate,vinyl then laminate again.It will go in with heat – it just wont stay there ! -
I can see where you are coming from, I dont use laminate so I dont have the same problem, I dont know if it makes a difference whether you join the print first or on the panel? I also only use a 5mm overlap, but my prints are obviously a lot smaller. But it does look a bit like the laminate may be the culprit?
Peter
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Sorry to blow that theory peter but the same effect has also happened when using a liquid laminate, effectively a thin varnish so we are talking just over 2 layers.
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Hi all, thought I’d make make my weekly visit to Signboard. As wrapping is my THING here is my advise. The grafiwrap system is s34p and lam o4o you should never really have joins in any recess areas so ideally outsource print if you have to as an airpocket will ALLWAYS remain. Also it is very important to gas off laminated print for at least 24 hours or this will cause delamination. Anyway enough of giving my traing tips away hope this helps
JD -
Many thanks for your reply James. When you say ‘gas off the laminate’ – what exactly do you mean ??!
we printed the wrapping vinyl and left it overnight and then laminated the following day applying to the vehicle a few hours later. I understand what you’re saying about not having joints in reccesses – think we’ve pretty much come to that conclusion and will have to source the printing elsewhere. -
Quote from the Grafiwrap Training manual –
quote :Once the vinyl has been printed it needs to be hund in a well-ventilated room to allow the ink solvents to completely dry. This we term as gassing off. It is an extremely important proceedure becasue if any solvent is still in the print when it is laminated the solvent will be trapped and therefore degrade the total product.james obviously wants you to sign up for the course they run, tbh we did and it was very good in my opinion, I actually watched james in action so to speak, and he’s now my hero, lol
😀
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haha ! well i might well consider it ! watched the blokes doing it at sign uk and it was made to look so easy ! will give it another bash without joining the prints together and see how i get on.
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