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my first order with europoint, and they had no black?
Just got off the phone to Europoint to place my first order with them, & guess what? They have no black gloss in stock 😮
How do you run out of black gloss? 🙄
Is this the start of a beautiful relationship? 😕
Cheers,
Gwaredd.
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28 Replies
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no black gloss ….. that’s like a baker having no bread! 😮
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I know! It’s one thing for us sign makers to run out having overlooked stock, but for the the UK’s only Oracal supplier to run out? Pftttt!
No doubt they have it in other ranges, but none in the 551 range (surely the most popular?)
Oh well, good job I’m not desparate & was only backing stock up…
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is 551 not the new version of 651?
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Not that I’m aware of Robert. The 651 is the 4/5 year intermediate cal & the 551 is the 5/7 year high performance cal. A far better product.
The range listing is a bit all over the place!
It goes 651 (cheap) 551 (med) 751 (good) 751c (cast)
Surely, I said, the 651 should be better than the 551? No, it’s not 😕 It’s all a bit of a muddle!
Cheers,
Gwaredd.
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Hey Gwaredd,
551 is by far not the most popular Oracal-foil. Almost everybody prefers 751 or even better 751 cast for long term projects. For events and other stuff you can use 631 or 651.
Cheers,
bart -
I prefere the 751, but can’t justify the extra cost over the supurb 551 series for everyday signage & vehicles.
I’ll be using the 751c for tricky rivet covered jobs etc, but can’t see the point of stocking the 751 range over the 551 range for stuff like Transit vans & shop fronts etc. It’d be a bit like giving a pig a stawberry!
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i use alot of 651, in fact most of my jobs are 651, except where i need to go into deep recesses etc, where i’ll use 751c,
give vinyl corporation a call, they take cards etc, and deliver next day, never had owt of stock yet, not to my knowledge anyways !
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751 has now changed to 751c as it is now a Cast Vinyl.
There is still 751 on the go, but i would imagine stock is almost exhausted now, leaving the NEW 751c only.It was:
651 = 4-5 year calander
751 = 5-7 year calanderwith the intro of 551 i was under the impression:
551 = 4-5 year calander
651 = 5-7 year calander
751c = 8 year+ CastIf you are struggling to get hold of 551 i would think its probably because its so new. i.e. limited availability until 651 or if you say 751, stock has completely gone?
I’m guessing now because what you have said is confusing me. ill have to check and reply once i know.
i use 751c for everything, doesnt matter if its a danger keep out or something silly. 751c for everything.
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http://www.ags.com.au/store/category.asp?CategoryID=44
This will show you the list as suggested by Oracal distributors in australia
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So its
651 – 5yr
551 – 6-7yr
751 – Cast
851 – CastI think I’ve got it
Don’t think my supplier stocks 551
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same for me Robert: we use 751cast for everything (except 631 for trade-lettering). The price difference between 751cast and 651 is (from our point of view) not big enough to justify the extra stock.
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hey all, enquired of the origins and age of 551 from our aussie Oracal suppliers. This is what they said;
We’ve been selling 551 it in hot QLD since December 97! It’s always been a polymeric but was upgraded a couple of years ago to a 5-7yr film.
651 has been sold in the USA as a 3-4yr film since around ’95. It was also upgraded a few years ago to a 5yr film.
Hope that clears things up from this end. 🙂
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HI There,
Robert — Shame on you !!!! Shane you are spot on.
651 = 5yr
551 = 7yr
751c = 8yr
851 = 10yrIts a long story ……. bottom line is 551 is our least stocked and because least popular , as 751cast is priced as a premium calendered vinyl we only really push 551 at customers that wont use a cast ,someone took an abnormally large amount and cleared our stock , we do have 34 rolls due in very soon.
When these situations occur i would offer the 751c charged at the 551 price.
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Cheers for clearing that up Cammy. I must admit, I’m still in two minds as to stock the 551 over the 751c.
After using the 551 over the last few days, I must admit that I’m very impressed, especially with its adhesive. Man, does that ever stick!
Trouble is, 95% of all my work is suited to the 5/7 year cal (551), so only a very small amount will benefit from using the cast (which I will order in as & when needed) so, to coin a phrase, it would really be like giving a pig a strawberry if I exclusively stocked the cast.
Factor in the cost, & although it’s not very much difference in price per metre, my last order would have cost me £60 more had I used cast over the 551.
Not much money for a large company, but for me, that’s another roll of 551 or a few sheets of foamex. That & the fact that sticking cast vinyl on old site boards would not sit well with the scrooge within!
As for supplying the 751c for the same price as the 551 when out of stock, I’d love to have been given the option, but was simply told it should be in on Friday (last) & I’ll be contacted when its in, by the most despondent sounding guy I’ve ever spoken too. Sounded like he was thinking of jumping off a bridge 😕
So far, no phone call, & I’m fast running out of black! I’ll have to give your guys a chase-up.
Cheers for the info though,
Gwaredd.
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quote Bart Van Wassenhove:same for me Robert: we use 751cast for everything (except 631 for trade-lettering). The price difference between 751cast and 651 is (from our point of view) not big enough to justify the extra stock.
i use mainly 651 because customers dont usually like the price when i offer it with 751c, i love the stuff, but use little of it, it’s more than three times the price from my supplier, i get a good discount on 651, but have to pay book price on the 751c, so i simply do not buy it for everyday jobs that do not require it, ie, nearly everything !
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Thanks Cammy,
Any news from Oracal if metalics are on the horizon with the 751c…. care to give me an exclusive? I will not tell a sole mate, promise 😎 .
It is the one thing 3M have over Oracal at the moment. Would love the 751c range to have a better choice than gold or silver……
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Hugh, I too was tempted to go with the 651, but the majority of my work lasts for well over 4/5 years so I went for the 551.
That & the fact it has a better colour range swung it. Guess it’s kind of a happy medium between 651 & 751. (surely it should be called 700.5 then?) 😛
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lol yeah ! the colour range is great in 751, i admit to sometimes using both ranges on a vehicle if the budget is tight, ie.. 751c over the recesses etc, and 651 on the flat stuff, most people aren’t gonna keep a vehicle more than a few years max anyway,
that’s not meant to sound like i dont care !! just that sometimes we have to work to a budget, they kinda get what they pay for (though usually more than they pay for !)
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Don’t forget boys and girls, if you lay a 7 or 10 year cast on top of a 4 or 5 year cal, the life of the cast will reduce to the life of the cal.
Its really pronounced with a cast on a monomeric, but the same theory applies to a cast over a polymeric film.
All about the plasticizers migrating.
Cheers
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HI There,
Few things — Steele Signs , tell whoever you spoke to i said it was Ok , rather we lost a couple of quid than let you down.
Hugh — You should be getting UKSG prices regardless and not list.
Shane — Orafol have announced 37 new metallic colours on 851 cast , we haven’t discussed bringing them in over here but would probably consider more readily if it was 751 cast maybe that will follow but no news yet.
Hope this helps guys.
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quote Cammy:Hugh — You should be getting UKSG prices regardless and not list.
now that you mention it Cammy …… 🙂 now you’re worried…… I got a delivery of Ability- bond last week. Got quoted one price and was charge £15 more for a sheet when I got my invoice??? 😕
I queried it with someone in your office (didn’t get his name but it wasn’t Alec, he was very deadpan sounding the guy I spoke to!!) Anyway he said it would depend who I was talking to what price I’d get. I said I thought it was the same for UKSG members but he said no, whoever I spoke to for the quote had given me a deal, but the person taking the order didn’t.He did says he’d look into it …. but I didn’t get the feeling of confidence from him! 😕
You’ll be glad to know I’ve bought a little of your vinyl to try it again ……!
I also wanted some mirror gold… but you only do that in 380mm wide 🙁 -
Hey !!!! Glad to hear it Marcella, what has happened is you have loaded prices on Alucolour and they don’t automatically trip over to our new product Ability bond , i will load them accordingly , ill give you a call to sort out the credit.
Cheers
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thanks Cammy – problem solved!!! 😀
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Shane, just to clarify, i don’t lay cast on cal, or vice versa, what i meant was that for decals that go over recesses, any colour/layer that needs to do that, will be 751c,
only use 651 for flat of very shallow recesses (up to about 3mm) which is mostly everything, i usually avoid, wherever possible, going over recesses !!
Cammy,
I’m a gold member, not a uksg member
😉you know, i’m sure where i buy from, …
the list price for 651 is about £2 a mtr, i pay £1.20 pm, fine,
list price on 751c is £3.50 pm, i get nowt off that, so little incentive to buy it,
if i somehow cut 10m of 751c wrong, that’ll cost me £35 vs £12 for 651, it’s not often i make mistakes, but they happen, and for everyday signs, or those jobs that dont always require a high performance vinyl, there’s little point in risking it.
if i could get the margin of difference down somewhat, then i would quite likely go over to 751c,
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Hugh You know the answer, UKSG is bekoning…..
Peter
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it is Peter, it is also beckoning !!!
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Sorry Hugh i forgot who you bought from, We felt that as it was such a massive benefit having a cast at a calendered price we chose not to discount to ……………. to the same level, hoping people would buy from us , they do sell other vinyls after all.
Rob will let you know what you could be paying.Cheers
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ok Cammy, thank you.
a strange coincidence maybe ? I just had and order for a job come in from a quote i sent out yesterday, which is 751c !
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