More red tape designed to bring us down.

[Shane Drew]

so what is the answer Martin. How do you get around the problem?

[Martin Oxenham]

The law says they need one form of ID and proof of entitlement to buy the plate for the car IE Log book or retention note or road tax reminder.
An MOT is the most important document for a car but this is not acceptable.
nor is having the car with you or having the old plates.
Let me give you several scenarios that have happened to us.
A sales rep on business down from manchester for a few days wakes up at his hotel and finds his plates have been stolen, he informs the police and they send him to me with a crime number for new ones. "have you got ID and the log book" ? I ask. " I’ve got my Driving license but of course I don’t have the log book, even head office have’nt got the log book because its a lease car. If its so important I will phone and get them to fax you a copy of the lease agreement but its a big company and it could take hours". "Sorry says me, but we can’t accept a copy we need to see the original document and record the numbers, sorry its the law." " But I have to drive to Cornwall now for three days what can I do, I have no plates on the car".
So by law he has to go back to Manchester, find the lease document and buy them locally and then drive to Cornwall.
Off course I never made him do this, I took his license details and another form of ID (credit card) and made and fitted the plates. I’am now a criminal.
No 2 A little old lady comes in with broken front number plate, one half only hanging by a screw. Again same problem and she does’nt even no what the log book is, But has her license and cheque book and is worried she doe’nt want to break the law by driving home like that. I do the same again. this is again against the law.

[John Childs]

quote Martin Oxenham:

If a man has a Shotgun license he can go into a sports shop and buy a shotgun and cartridges to use as he wishes at any time.

Regrettably not true Martin. If it was the case then I’d be using my shotgun for a cull of the brain dead morons who think up these regulations.

I feel your pain brother.

[Scott.Evans]

martin here is what you can do.

every plate you do, sell it as a show plate state on the invoice (this number plate is for show purposes only)

then ring the dvla and tell them you can now shove your forms up your ass as iam now selling show plates instead.

and if they come to visit you again tell them you need 3 forms of id before they can enter the shop.

:lol1:

[Phill Fenton]

I agree with Scott :lol1: :lol1:

[Peter Normington]

Unfortunately its against the law to use a registration number on a show plate.
My opinion, all the plates should be provided by the dvla, that way no iffy ones. they should be made from pressed ally, and have a chip on them that is readable from roadside equipment, personal plates and show plates
have no place being on the road.
Car crime in this country is very high, even avoiding the london congestion charge is big business with cloned plates.
Peter

[John Childs]

quote Peter Normington:

Car crime in this country is very high, even avoiding the london congestion charge is big business with cloned plates.
Peter

That may be true Peter, but pointless regulations just make everybody’s life a misery while doing nothing to cure it.

Congestion charges are easily avoided, as Martin’s stolen plates confirm. If the villains can’t buy iffy plates, then they’ll just steal them.

All the number regulations have done is to create more pointless jobs, for which we have to pay.

[Richard Urquhart]

I am DVLA reg but i don’t think its worth making plates as there available so cheap on the net, or from motorfactors. I agree 100% with peter, these should only be available from DVLA.
Rich

[Peter Normington]

quote John Childs:

quote Peter Normington:

Car crime in this country is very high, even avoiding the london congestion charge is big business with cloned plates.
Peter

That may be true Peter, but pointless regulations just make everybody’s life a misery while doing nothing to cure it.

Congestion charges are easily avoided, as Martin’s stolen plates confirm. If the villains can’t buy iffy plates, then they’ll just steal them.

All the number regulations have done is to create more pointless jobs, for which we have to pay.

Yes John, so we just make the penalty for stealing plates minimum 5 years
Peter

[Kevin Flowers]

It does not need the DVLA to issue plates, it needs the DVLA to enforce the regulations that it put in place to stop car crime. I can go to any of my local markets & buy a set of plates with no id made as you like. This is still happening even after every registered supplier was warned that they would be fined if they was caught supplying show plates. These people are openly breaking the law and are left to earn a very decent living & the likes of Martin who makes sure he at least gets an ID is given the third degree. IMO these officials don’t want the hassle of dealing with the real law breakers for fear of ending up with a mountain of paperwork. When my inspection comes i will ensure i have contact details for these officials & continually hound them with info about these market suppliers so that they are made to deal with the real law breakers.

Kev

[Peter Normington]

Kev
If the dvla issued the plates, there would be less reason to spend money on enforcement,
Peter

[Kevin Flowers]

Peter
again it would be fine providing they could do that job correctly but the logistics of them doing them is just setting them up to fail.

How are they going to distribute them,
What is going to be the order lead time
How are they going to check you are entitled to the plates, cloning is still done with duplicate logbooks

Are they going to re open all of the local offices that they spent thousands closing. Use the post offices that they have just closed. It’s all well & good having an alternative if that alternative works. If they control the current set up correctly it should cost no more than them setting up to do it themselves. Why should hard working law abiding companies loose the choice of revenue because the correct officials won’t do the job they are paid for.

Kev

[Martin Oxenham]

I do not believe in the right of the DVLA to make plates. People have made plates since the 1960s.
We have been making plates for about 18 Years and whilst our primary business is signs there is good profit in plates. Eg cost £3 -£4 and price for GB plates £25, time about 5 mins. Some companys make nothing else.
Up until about six years ago anyone could go into a shop and make up any number and buy a plate. So because of car crime and speed cameras they introduced the plate suppliers register. So you have to be authorised and keep records. This is fine and a good idea as long as its sensible. I have asked the DVLA inspectors the question "it it to deter car crime and other offences or is it just to make a load of red tape". If its the former then all you need is proof of ID. In fact the law states if you have the log book then it does’nt even need to be in your name but you must have it.
My argument is not the ideal of the system but the fact that there is no leeway or room for discretion the DVLA are just a bunch of jobsworths beyond belief. I don’t expect those who don’t make plates to understand, but when you can take £400 in a good day just from plates its serious.
It is now illegal to make "Show plates" in any form but the DVLA will still continue to sell registrations and hold back numbers that even resemble a name for auction and bump up the price and encourage people to buy them. This is a whole separate issue. Fifteen years ago private plates were for the rich, TOM 1 £30,000 etc then the DVLA decided to sell registrations to anyone so people who could not aford TOM 1 decided to try and make names from similar numbers so creating the mess that exists now. This is purely the fault of the DVLA making a rod for its own back. Now they preach one law and enforce another.

[Martin Oxenham]

If you have looked at Watchdog on TV lately you will understand how incompetent the DVLA are, losing peoples details, and making people who have been driving for 30 years have to re-sit the driving test because they have no proof of passing it, because after losing their license or sending it in for renewal the DVLA have lost all records. Some of these stories are beyond belief but the DVLA will not admit to mistakes. Just imagine what a minefield this would be if they had to make plates as well as issue the numbers. If you want a set of false plates give me a screw driver and five minutes and I can get you some. If counterfitters can make Passports and Credit cards and driving licenses in the Prime ministers name then I’am sure they can make plates.

[Phill Fenton]

Dear Margorie

I had a regular spending customer called in on Friday. He had lost one of his red/white trade plates and had asked me to make him a temporary replacement until he was able to get a genuine replacement made up. I am not a registered number plate maker but he was asking me to help him out in the short term

What should I do ?

[Martin Oxenham]

Help him !
One of the forms the DVLA pulled me on and took away was a customer that we supplied van lettering for about four weeks ago at a cost of about £800
He asked me to make two new plates for one of the vans, he had the log book but no ID so I filled out the form in the name of the company. I’ve been dealing with this customer for about six years so what do I do ? tell him to go away and lose future business or break the law. I know he’s not going to put these plates on a stolen car so I again break the law. If I upset him he thinks I’am being petty and won’t come back.

[Peter Normington]

quote Phill:

Dear Margorie

I had a regular spending customer called in on Friday. He had lost one of his red/white trade plates and had asked me to make him a temporary replacement until he was able to get a genuine replacement made up. I am not a registered number plate maker but he was asking me to help him out in the short term

What should I do ?

write a book on the subject 😀

[Kevin Flowers]

quote Phill:

Dear Margorie

I had a regular spending customer called in on Friday. He had lost one of his red/white trade plates and had asked me to make him a temporary replacement until he was able to get a genuine replacement made up. I am not a registered number plate maker but he was asking me to help him out in the short term

What should I do ?

Phil
thing is Trade Plates are a different kettle of fish if you loose one of them you have a lot of explaining to do to get it replaced and a period of waiting for the replacement.
On the number plate side if someone backs into your van damages a No plate are you going to be prepared to leave it sitting there when you have signs to fit. That could be the result if a single body takes over the supply of plates

Kev

[John Thomson]

quote Peter Normington:

personal plates and show plates
have no place being on the road.

Why should a ‘personal plate’ that I bought from the government have no place on the road Peter? ‘Show plates’ I can see the argument for……

I have had ‘show plates’ since 1992…..black Scotch light on Yellow Scotch light……….Turns our that my MP…..who I have met and who supports my dog training School is in the tabloid press today…….she has claimed £466,620 in expenses from you and me as taxpayers……so in the big scheme of things who is the criminal? me for having ‘show plates’ or my elected representative? Especially considering that over one third of the country’s MP’s have now repaid money that they have illegally claimed as expenses?

Do the government really think that restricting the sale of number plates will deter people from stealing cars? A flat screw driver is enough to illegally gain a set of plates. Everyone on the Boards is capable of making number plates! at least if they make number plates they will not be critisised for poor design or daring to try and be a sign maker on the cheap or God forbid do it using a Chinese plotter……….

john

[Harry Cleary]

Why is it so complicated? I really don’t understand the UK system. Here, (and in the rest of the EU, as far as I know), we have ‘year of manufacture, county of first registration and the vehicle number for that year. E.G. 07 MN 64327 Simple. If you are caught with illegal plates you face the full rigour of the law.
It’s a licensing system, it has to conform to a set of rules. If you want to put your name on a car why not just run a line of text along the boot lid, why fudge it with personal numbers and show plates.

What is a show plate…..btw?

[John Childs]

quote Peter Normington:

Yes John, so we just make the penalty for stealing plates minimum 5 years

Fair enough Peter. That’ll do me.

And do the same with people who buy iffy plates, then we put the penalty on the people who commit the crime, rather than burden hapless traders with unnecessary bureaucratic regulations. That’s that the way it should be.

[Shane Drew]

Interesting thread.

In australia, we get a the plates with the cars when we buy them, and in most cases they stay with the car until its wrecked or destroyed.

We have registration stickers on the car windows that are replaced every year.

Our plates are pressed ally as peter suggests, and are made by one company with a government license.

You can order personalized plates in many formats online, (ppq.com.au) and they are posted out or left at the DMV for pickup.

Your system seems so complicated over there.

I’ve just purchased two new vans here, they’ll be supplied with plates that I’ll keep until I sell the vans to the next guy, and he’ll have the plates transferred to him on sale.

Sounds like its difficult to maintain any status quo with the system over there

Stolen plates are still an issue, but once plates are reported stolen, they are replaced with a new set, and the others are taken out of the system until found.

Each plate is matched to the VIN number of the car, so the police can easily discover if the car is correctly licensed on any inspection. They do a check of the VIN every time you are pulled over for anything… from speeding right thru to a breathalyser

[Martin Oxenham]

Shane sorry if I made it sound complicated bit it does’nt need to be, only the men in suits make it so to create jobs.
Yes we get plates with a car etc when you buy one and yes they stay with the car until it dies but ours are made of perspex and after time they brake or come apart. This is an MOT failure, also there is a massive market for buying and selling new and sometimes very old numbers. Yoy can’t just make up a number combination so for example K1 NGS sold for £250,000. Now the record has been broken several times.

[John Childs]

More time wasted dealing with idiots……..

Because our company Income Tax and NHI contributions, those we deduct from staff wages, fall below the limit set by HM Revenue & Customs we only have to hand them over on a quarterly basis.

Now we get a call from HMRC saying that, according to their calculations, our payments should be over the limit and they want paying monthly.

I explained that we have done the sums and we do indeed fall below the limit but they say that doesn’t matter because it’s their calculations that matter. I take the opposite view. Our calculations are correct, so they can go and whistle for the money for the next two months. I can foresee a long drawn out battle ahead, but they ain’t getting a penny until it is legally due.

Do these morons just sit around all day, dreaming up ways of messing us around?

[Gary Birch]

[quote="John Childs"]More time wasted dealing with idiots……..

Because our company Income Tax and NHI contributions, those we deduct from staff wages, fall below the limit set by HM Revenue & Customs we only have to hand them over on a quarterly basis.

quote]

I didn’t know that John. As I have only one employee and myself (also an employee as we are Limited) do you think that we could pay it quarterly?

If so I will have a word with my accountant.

Cheers

Gary

[John Childs]

quote Gary Birch:

As I have only one employee and myself (also an employee as we are Limited) do you think that we could pay it quarterly?

We were told, by HMRC, this morning, that the limit for making quarterly payments was £1,500 of net liabilities.

So I would say you can pay quarterly unless, of course, you are paying yourselves some wonderful salaries. 😀

[Gary Birch]

John
Thanks for that. I don’t mind doing it monthly but I could save myself 66% of the time I spend sorting it out.

Will speak to my accountant about it.

Thanks again

Gary