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Mac V’s PC
Why to be graphic it needs to have for strength a Mac?
The software and the power it is the same one.
Gavino.
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34 Replies
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the vast majority of sign makers use a PC
the vast majority of litho and design industry use a MACmainly the mac’s have been colour control within the operating system, the mac handled better for control of the screen in the early, however the PC and MAC software (Adobe) are pretty much the same now, I guess they are built from the same fundamental software code.
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I run both PC and MAC only because I get some things still that where done on a MAC. Thankfully the times I need to use the MAC are getting less and less the PC version of CS3 can read most Adobe stuff created on the Mac so long as fonts have been outlined etc.
This is good news as in my opinion the Mac’s are 4 times the cost of a PC with less than 1/4 of the software available to run on them not a very attractive business purchase.
In theory the PC should win a poll on this site as at the moment there is a software poll running and Corel is in the lead, to my knowledge the will not run on a MAC, not sure about signlab and flexi but belive it is only Adobe available on the MAC, this software survey alone shows the weakness of MACs, we buy computors to run software if they can not run that software they have no value.
I am not one for the MAC PC debate I just want the most capable tools at the keenest prices.Regards
Russell.
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I have 3 PC, here if don’t have a Mac, you are not graphic, and they snob you.
This could be true 10-15 years ago. But today the software are the same.
Perhaps it is matter of headGavino
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You excuse my elementary English.
If I am wrong please correct me. -
PC’s have defiantly caught up and are on a par. Macs used to have the graphics advantage and the fact you could run Quark. All changed now a days.
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Pc will always win the popularity vote,
old argument, pros and cons will continue. it’s like the software debate, whatever you work best with is good for youPeter
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I’m far from an expert in this field but from experience….
mac drawings for the sign industry are generally flawed (lots of work needed to get them to cut…..or get screen printable artworks ready from)
Corel to Litho….not too many problems I would have thought
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im gonna say pc and mac…the need to use both in signage is a must to convert files between the two platforms and also use different machinery 😀
so i wont voteni
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It’s all down to the operator.
I have output from Corel Draw to litho since ver 3 here, If you setup as the final output source needs then No probs.
The age old Mac / PC debate is a yawn! If your used to Mac stick with Mac or vice versa unless you can justify the time for the learning curve.
I don’t see the need to have both platforms Nic if the art is created properly then no probs. The only reason I see the point of having both platforms are for clients who don’t supply suitable art, usually because their designers are hooked on the age old Mac debate and are stubborn as they know best.
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quote Glenn:mac drawings for the sign industry are generally flawed (lots of work needed to get them to cut…..or get screen printable artworks ready from)Can’t agree there Glenn.
I’d have said it was the other way round.
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Its not the platform, its the users. I constantly come accross designers (some very gifted design wise) who just don’t construct files properly ie they’ll just cover something up rather than trim it away and the majorityof them use MACS because of history – designers use MACS because they always have same goes for Illustrator. They would produce the same flawed files in Corel on a PC.
With PDF becoming the norm now I seldom have problems importing a file into Draw or SL for finishing even if it means opening in Acrobat my end and resaving as PDF or EPS
Alan D -
the problems attribute from new software working with your favourite software which may have aged a year or two, in that time someone brings out a new format that basically your software doesn’t support.
We are native designers in Corel, as we know how to use it to its max, but when it comes to import drawings, Corel does it’s best to ‘convert’ to its format but it doesn’t work all the time.
Adobe own the rights to Postscript and the PDF format, so they basically designed Illustrator around the format, so you are actually ‘opening’ the file with minimal error.
A big hurdle for a Corel use is opening a Indesign file, as Indesign does make so very difficult files to work with, Corel can missreads/missconverts parts of the file and fails, same goes with our RIP software.
If all the manufacturers of software stopped reinventing and releasing versions, then things would be better, the only reason I buy updates to Corel is to import files better.
Also, Corel is available on the MAC but only for one version, thats version 10.
The way it seems to be … the signmaking market is more into the programs like Signlab as they are designed to help the user to prepare multilayered vinyl and the design programs like Corel and Illustrator are geared towards hi-end design, which you find that the ‘signmaking’ procedures are a little more complicated but if you know that tool that it is not hard for you.
I think as Print becomes more of a sign making standard, instead of vinyl cutting, the programs of Corel and Adobe do make common sense, but SignLabs and others keep reinventing the software to keep up with the changing signmaking market.
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quote John Childs:quote Glenn:mac drawings for the sign industry are generally flawed (lots of work needed to get them to cut…..or get screen printable artworks ready from)
Can’t agree there Glenn.
I’d have said it was the other way round.
I am just speaking from experience here John ….It’s just that every Mac based file we have ever had, has had nothing welded so all intersecting lines are a mess, line thicknesses added instead of contours and lines exceeding borders covered by white blocks instead of trimmed etc etc…..all of these from ‘professional’ design houses
We always have to spend time tidying Mac based drawings up….As Alan says though it must be the designer rather than the platform
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I use a Mac and prefer that, but it probably is because that’s what I started using a long time ago. As much of a Mac fanatic I am, I would still agree with most of the other people on this board that the PC side has caught up in terms of Graphics capabilities. One thing to consider is that the newer Intel Macs can run OS X, Windows & Linux. Obviously this would save you from having to buy more than one machine if you needed any or all of those OS’s. As far as people being snobby about what hardware you use, tell ’em to go stuff it. It really is more important that you make the right choice for yourself, and more importantly that the work you do comes out top notch. Your business is not a fashion show (or at least I guess it isn’t). 😀
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quote Tim Painter:The only reason I see the point of having both platforms are for clients who don’t supply suitable artwork
my point exactly 😀
nik
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What annoys me is that little .dat file that you get every time a Mac designer sends you an attachment.
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Corel V11 was the one also available for the MAC but it died a death because very few copies were sold, the problem of overlapping lines etc is not only a MAC thing as I get files generated on PC’s and from Corel/Illustrator doesn’t really matter – equally as bad, they come from designers and will probably have every colour model you can think of in it. Its people who foul up not the computer platform and yes if Adobe would stop changing the specs for postscript and related formats life would be alot easier and even their own products struggle with it sometimes.
Alan D -
quote John Childs:I am just speaking from experience here John
So am I. 😀
quote Glenn:…It’s just that every Mac based file we have ever had, has had nothing welded so all intersecting lines are a mess, line thicknesses added instead of contours and lines exceeding borders covered by white blocks instead of trimmed etc etc…..all of these from ‘professional’ design housesWe always have to spend time tidying Mac based drawings up….As Alan says though it must be the designer rather than the platform
Exactly right. It’s the designer, not the platform.
I’ve got one on my screen now, and to be honest I don’t know whether they did it on a Mac or a PC, but it’s horrible. The thing is that it is fine for their purpose, which is print, but not for ours. To be fair, they have no responsibility to make files for somebody else’s benefit, so who are we to complain?
The thing is that they are just lazy and whatever I am trying to create a file for, I try to make it as clean and efficient as I can.
But how this monkey made a vector van drawing, which should come in at about 400k, bloat up to 23.3Mb I shall never know. 😀
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One of the advantages of dedicated sign software such as Signlab is that if you perform a simple weld operation to the whole group it will remove all the unnecessary lines in a vector drawn image.
Nothing to do with Macs V PCs but relevant to the discussion in this thread.
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quote :But how this monkey made a vector van drawing, which should come in at about 400k, bloat up to 23.3Mb I shall never know
Classic……much more polite than what I usually say…….maybe tamed for the Boards
:lol1: :lol1: :lol1:
Not a Designer Monkey by chance John……..(:) (:) (:)
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Attachments aren’t allowed in this post, so I’ll have to paste a link.
Saw this a few months ago and thought it was funny.http://blogs.techrepublic.com.com/geeke … x_prob.jpg
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Then here… :lol1:
http://nz.youtube.com/watch?v=1EbCyibkNB0
http://nz.youtube.com/watch?v=lgzbhEc6VVo
http://nz.youtube.com/watch?v=RJQpCVh4cUIGavino
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You excuse my elementary English.
If I am wrong please correct me. -
I’m all PC – always have been – always will be.
I find no need to run a ‘special’ Mac and it’s associated (expensive & dedicated) programs simply for conversions…otherwise sitting there doing, em…nothing – that’s not MY problem..that’s up to the supplier of any artwork to get right for me. Really, why should I waste MY time?
If ‘we’ send artwork to one of our suppliers, say for flat-cut it’s not their job to start converting files to a useable format – we have to supply ready to use files.
For power & functionality – new PC’s and Macs are equal for the most part (on paper), still, I’d rather have the flexibility and support of the PC market for drivers, software, troubleshooting etc.
As already said – the debate is ancient & endless. Some old school Mac-using-designers are militant in support of their ancient 450Mhz G3 that they are willing along with incantations at every Photoshop redraw or Bryce render…firm in the belief that it’s ‘better’ than a £300 PC. 😉
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quote Phill:One of the advantages of dedicated sign software such as Signlab is that if you perform a simple weld operation to the whole group it will remove all the unnecessary lines in a vector drawn image.
True.
But so does the unite command in Illustrator. 😀
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I think as Gian has said there is still a ‘snob’ value attached to Macs, we use both PC’s and Macs, I wish we didn’t have to touch a PC because of all the issues associated with maintenance, viruses, problems with speed and their general design and robustness.
Its an odd area for signmakers as I suppose we are or were airing on the side of technical drawing/draughting and historically there was never a need to capture the power of the Mac to design and sell your product.
However it is very different now with the new technologies that are available, you invest in a Mac laptop or desktop and you are also investing in the future of your company and its image to your clients, I have lost count of the times I have turned up with my powerbook, projector and ipod to present work to clients and the main talking point (before my presentation I hasten to add) is the kit I turn up with, I’ve never had that with one of our PC’s. It inspires confidence from the outset.
Yes they all run similar packages and if you have been using either or for a number of years you are bound to feel more comfortable with the system, but the quality of the product speaks for itself especially when colleagues are not prepared to invest, it only makes it more unique.
Workflow and confidence in the hardware is paramount for us and the Mac does this effortlessly.
Sorry guys keep your PC’s I’ll be binning mine as soon as parallel arrives for my Mac allowing me to run versaworks.
I’m not trying to convince anyone to buy a Mac, I’d rather stay unique and have that extra advantage so DON’T buy one.
The debate continues…………….
No offence intended to any PC
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quote John Childs:quote Phill:One of the advantages of dedicated sign software such as Signlab is that if you perform a simple weld operation to the whole group it will remove all the unnecessary lines in a vector drawn image.True.
But so does the unite command in Illustrator. 😀
How do you do that?
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quote Warren Beard:How do you do that?
Open the Pathfinder palette, if it’s not already open. Mine’s permanently on screen.
Select the items you want to weld/unite. They can be the shadows on letters, or any random old group of overlapping shapes, it doesn’t matter.
Click on the first icon in the Pathfinder palette. It you’ve got hints switched on it is called something like "add to shape area".
If you want to cut it in vinyl, just click on the expand button at the right hand side of the palette, and all the unwanted lines disappear.
Hey Presto, all the shapes are now welded into one cuttable object.
That’s one trick. There’s others. The Pathfinder is a very powerful tool in the right hands.
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Hi John, yep it’s all there just fired up an ancient copy of freehand from 95 its all in there as well, union, punch etc.
As long as you know your way around the software no probs.
Jas
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I see what you are saying John, nice tip there. I have a different problem with pathfinder and don’t know if it’s just me or Illustrator. If you have text that overlaps and you need to merge it to take away the overlapping lines (add to shape does not work for this) after you merge it there is a duplicated line on all the inner pieces (the inside of the letters ie: a, e, g, d etc etc) you have to select each one and delete the duplicate line, I have never figured a way around this.
Do you understand my explanation and have a solution?
Cheers
Warren
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I understand what you are describing Warren, because sometimes the same happens to me, but I can’t give you chapter and verse on the answer.
I’m sure that it has something to do with which shape is in front of the other, and using the appropriate tool but, to be honest, on the occasions that it happens it is usually easier to just delete the duplicates. 😳
If it happened often enough to be a problem then I’d solve it, but it doesn’t, so I just take the easy way out. 😀
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quote :I see what you are saying John, nice tip there. I have a different problem with pathfinder and don’t know if it’s just me or Illustrator. If you have text that overlaps and you need to merge it to take away the overlapping lines (add to shape does not work for this) after you merge it there is a duplicated line on all the inner pieces (the inside of the letters ie: a, e, g, d etc etc) you have to select each one and delete the duplicate line, I have never figured a way around this.Hi Guys
We’re all Mac’s here and have been for 20 years. In my opinion I would not want to change, but thats because of the ‘learning curve’ that would be involved and I can already do so much with ‘shortcuts’ on the mac that are totally different on a PC.
Anyway to Warrens question –
The way to sort this is to do the merge ‘twice’. When you have done the outline and merged, there will be an ‘inline’ shown on the letter. Select all again and make sure that everything has the same main colour with no stroke colour and then merge again. Always works for me…
Martin
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I find it irronic that the mighty MAC needs software so that it can immitate a PC so it can run Windows but as a PC user I’ve never needed to immitate a MAC. 😉
Alan D -
news cold
(:) Mac OS X on PC, now by hardware
Introduced last June as the first device hardware to allow the installation of Mac OS X on the PC, EFiX it does the his first, timid entry on the market. According to this page of the official site, today the version for PC desktop of EFiX is on sale to Taiwan and in Bulgaria, while negotiations are in progress to extend its distribution to United States, Malaysia, Hong Kong, Brazil, Spain, Russia and Ukraine.
Gavino
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You excuse my elementary English.
If I am wrong please correct me. -
I’ve started using computers in 1987 and that was a Mac. Up till now I am still using Mac because it is still the the number one platform for the Graphic Art industry.
One of my employee had been using PC all his life he keeps updating his system to the latest. When he started working with us I gave him a Mac Pro 6GB Ram with 2 monitors, both windows vista and Mac OS leopard installed. With 2 monitors on one MAC he could have both systems open and he can navigate from one system on one screen to the other.
Guest what 4 months now without any influence he is now using Adobe Illustrator on MacOS and he only uses windows to convert a clients coreldraw file. He is reaally good too.
Apart from large format printing and signage we design lots advert for local companies in overseas publications. Still now in 2008 if one wants to do a little researching on the internet for advert requirements of major publications such as VOGUE, NATIONAL GEOGRAPHIC, COSMOPOLITAN, ELLE etc.. maybe he might be lucky to find one that says they accept PC format artwork.
No offense but I have noticed that PC users tend to compare a Mac they saw 1990 to a PC they bought in 2008
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quote Warren Beard:I see what you are saying John, nice tip there. I have a different problem with pathfinder and don’t know if it’s just me or Illustrator. If you have text that overlaps and you need to merge it to take away the overlapping lines (add to shape does not work for this) after you merge it there is a duplicated line on all the inner pieces (the inside of the letters ie: a, e, g, d etc etc) you have to select each one and delete the duplicate line, I have never figured a way around this.
Do you understand my explanation and have a solution?
Cheers
Warren
Add to shape works if objects you’re merging aren’t grouped. If possible I always use that command. Merge usually leaves you with paths that doesn’t have a fill or stroke color, paths like this is easily removed with the Object -> Path -> Clean up.
Illy has a few quirks, but once you know which tool that’s best for the job it’s real easy to use. CS2+ has some really nice features that makes it a breeze to work with.
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