lost cheque

[Gareth.Lewis]

James,

You can write and issue an invoice even if NONE of the amount has been paid. Isn’t an invoice a request for payment? You could issue a statement with it with the details of the balance owing.

Cheers!

Gareth.

[Peter Normington]

James
The cheque is the same as cash, as far as you and your customer are concerned. He gave it to you for payment, and you lost it, he is not obliged to even cancel or rewrite the cheque, although, may well do so out of good will , however, as it’s been cashed, it is highly unlikely you will see the £100 again.

The Invoice has been paid in full by the client, so there is no problem issuing it, along with a receipt if asked for.

The loss will inevitably be yours 🙁

Peter

[James Martin]

ye thought so.

Do there bank not have any responsibility to make sure the right person has been paid though?

I spoke to the companies Secretary and she said that there bank have only managed to get a bad copy of the cheque back so far and apparently its been cashed by another bank; she said they are going to track down the original to get more information.

[Phill Fenton]

I would say that if you have lost the cheque, and it has subsequently been cashed by someone then a crime has been committed.

Advise your customer that they should inform the bank that the cheque was fraudulently cashed so that a police investigation can be implemented.

If your customer is bluffing, and the cheque hasn’t really been cashed this may cause them to back track.

Why should you be out of pocket when it would appear that a crime has been committed. This needs to be reported and investigated

[Peter Normington]

Was the cheque crossed "account payee only"? if so the bank may be responsible for cashing it to the wrong person, but if it was endorsed over at somewhere like the many cash convertor places, the paper chase to track down a hundred quid, may well not be worth the effort.
Its your customer who will have to chase his bank to investigate the matter, and refund if appropriate but to be honest, I wouldnt hold my breath.

Peter

[Peter Normington]

quote Phill:

I would say that if you have lost the cheque, and it has subsequently been cashed by someone then a crime has been committed.

Advise your customer that they should inform the bank that the cheque was fraudulently cashed so that a police investigation can be implemented.

If your customer is bluffing, and the cheque hasn’t really been cashed this may cause them to back track.

Why should you be out of pocket when it would appear that a crime has been committed. This needs to be reported and investigated

Its a sad state of affairs Phil, but the police no longer investigate fraud, (if it is fraud) like this, its now left to the banks to decide if the police should be involved, and only after they have exhausted all methods open to them.

May be different in Scotland though?

Peter

[Phill Fenton]

I have just spoken to Alison (who used to work in banking). She advises that it is highly unlikely that anyone else could have cashed this cheque unless they had a bank account in your name. This suggests to me that your customer is "trying it on".

Advice them that as a crime has been committed they should involve the police. If they will not – then I would contact the police myself and ask them to investigate.

A cheque is not the same as cash. Don’t give in too easily.

By all means issue an invoice for the full amount – but advise your customer that you will press for payment and will (if necessary) involve the police to find out who cashed the cheque. This is not just a civil matter – this amounts to fraud so they should investigate.

[James Martin]

Thanks for all your input.

I am prepared for the worst in this; the fact that I ask for cheques to be written in my name and not my business name is something which can only help the would be fraudsters.

saying that though I thought the point of a cheque was security.

I will write them a statement saying I was paid in full and press the bank and whoever I can to find out where the money went.

[Peter Normington]

quote Phill:

I have just spoken to Alison (who used to work in banking). She advises that it is highly unlikely that anyone else could have cashed this cheque unless they had a bank account in your name. This suggests to me that your customer is “trying it on”.

Advice them that as a crime has been committed they should involve the police. If they will not – then I would contact the police myself and ask them to investigate.

A cheque is not the same as cash. Don’t give in too easily.

By all means issue an invoice for the full amount – but advise your customer that you will press for payment and will (if necessary) involve the police to find out who cashed the cheque. This is not just a civil matter – this amounts to fraud so they should investigate.

Phil, banks dont check signatures, and like I say, in law a check is a promisary note, the same as a bank note.

so we go back to the same thing, James lost the cheque, that is the same as losing cash, unfortunately, for a hundred quid I would just suffer the loss and get on with my life, its gone, get over it, end of.

Phill you old cynic. why would the customer be trying it on?

Peter

[Phill Fenton]

Cheques are different from cash in that they are all unique and can be traced. You can’t do that with banknotes. If a cheque has been cashed it will have a history which can be proven.

Don’t write them a statement saying you have been paid in full when clearly you haven’t. Why would you agree to do that?

I would be asking them to prove to you that the missing cheque was cashed. You are entitled to be paid for your work. If they can’t prove to you that it was cashed then press them for payment.

If it was cash that you had lost – then fair enough as Peter said you will have to swallow the loss. However, This is a cheque that has been lost which means they still have the money – unless of course someone else really has cashed this cheque as they have claimed.

Peter is talking bollocks when he says a cheque is the same as cash – it aint.

[Peter Normington]

No Phil. I am not talking shit, you are, if you or I gave a cheque to a supplier for payment, and they lost it, and it had been cashed, its NOT my/your problem,
now behave 😉

Peter

[John Childs]

Jenny paid six cheques into her bank, by post. They were never credited to her account.

The bank admitted that they had received them, but had paid them into another customers account. They refused point blank to rectify their mistake.

It was left to Jenny to go to all her customers, get them to cancel the cheques and write new ones.

I thought that was absolutely disgraceful, and a sad indication of the depths to which our banking system has sunk.

Needless to say, she has a new bank now.

[Phill Fenton]

Only if it’s been cashed – in which case a crime (fraud) has been committed which is a serious matter in the eyes of the law.

There are two possibilites here

1/ The cheque really has been cashed as the customer has claimed – in which case the police should be called in to investigate the fraud.

2/ The customer is lying and is an opportunist on hearing that James had lost the cheque is trying to claim he has paid his debt

[Peter Normington]

quote Phill:

Only if it’s been cashed – in which case a crime (fraud) has been committed which is a serious matter in the eyes of the law.

There are two possibilites here

1/ The cheque really has been cashed as the customer has claimed – in which case the police should be called in to investigate the fraud.

2/ The customer is lying and is an opportunist on hearing that James had lost the cheque is trying to claim he has paid his debt

Phil, will you please listen,
you cant report this to the police, they are not interested, it is a matter for the banks to resolve, Either way in law, James has been paid by the client, he accepted the cheque, it is NOT their problem that he lost it.
Hence my statement about a cheque being the same as cash, as far as the contract was concerned.

3rd possibility, and who is to say that James’s friend didnt cash it? and just say he lost it?
Thats how the police and banks look at it

Peter

[Phill Fenton]

quote Peter Normington:

Phil, will you please listen,
you cant report this to the police, they are not interested, it is a matter for the banks to resolve, Either way in law, James has been paid by the client, he accepted the cheque, it is NOT their problem that he lost it.
Hence my statement about a cheque being the same as cash, as far as the contract was concerned.

Accepting a cheque is not the same as getting paid. A cheque is not a guarantee of payment – it’s not much better than an IOU. Unlike cash which is a guaranteed payment.

You’re wrong and I’m right 😛 😛

[Nicola McIntosh]

cant see it a problem jim, if the customer is reputable he will replace the cheque and stop the first one 😕 not the first time it has happened to me, and vice versa with a client 😀

[Peter Normington]

Phill, accepting a cheque is the same as cash, unless it bounces, but thats another story, like giving counterfeit banknotes.
So cheque = cash as far as the contract goes. So stop arguing for the sake of it,
James got the mucky end of the stick, but it was down to his own carelessness, if the story was reversed, and he had paid a cheque to his suppliers, and they had lost it, you would be advising James not to pay again, and insisting on an invoice for the goods,

Its bad luck, for James, but the police really do have better things to do than sort out a lost £100, we must at times be responsible for our own actions.

Peter

[Peter Normington]

quote Nicola Rowlands:

cant see it a problem jim, if the customer is reputable he will replace the cheque and stop the first one 😕 not the first time it has happened to me, and vice versa with a client 😀

but the cheque has been cashed Nik, so cant be stopped, so why would the client pay another £100?

Peter

[Nicola McIntosh]

quote Peter Normington:

but the cheque has been cashed Nik, so cant be stopped, so why would the client pay another £100?

ok ok ok ok, read it wrong again 😉 but i certainly wouldnt sit back and let it go, i would need too find out who did cash the cheque 😕

nik

[Phill Fenton]

quote Peter Normington:

James got the mucky end of the stick, but it was down to his own carelessness, if the story was reversed, and he had paid a cheque to his suppliers, and they had lost it, you would be advising James not to pay again, and insisting on an invoice for the goods,

Peter

No I wouldn’t. In that situation if my supplier was telling me the cheque had been lost I would put a stop on it and re-issue another. If the bank then told me it was too late to stop the cheque I would insist they investigate who had fraudulentlyy cashed it. If the bank refused to do this I would report the crime to the police myself. No one is above the law.

The advice you have offered James is poor and inaccurate.

Now I’m gonna wait up until you’ve gone to bed to ensure I get the last word in 😉

[Peter Normington]

Phil
you may be up a while, (it’s not Thursday)

My advice is as good as any, based on common sense and experience, you may report to the police, but trust me, it would be a waste of time.

James do as you see fit, I wish you luck, I doubt if you will see the £100 again,

Phil is a bit idealistic, but the real world is not as we would like it to be,
shame but the truth.

Credit fraud, cheques, cards etc, is mainly down to the account holders, (fact) They try and blame others for the debts they cant afford. nothing to do with this case, but that is why when an honest mistake is made the banks are reluctant to put it right…

Over to you Phill

Peter

[Phill Fenton]

Follow my advice and you will eventually get paid James. My guess is that these people are opportunists trying to take advantage of the situation. Don’t let them get away with it.

[Peter Normington]

quote Phill:

Follow my advice and you will eventually get paid James. My guess is that these people are opportunists trying to take advantage of the situation. Don’t let them get away with it.

Phil , that’s not advice. its just a cynical opinion, most customers are honest, you have no facts to substantiate that the client in this case is an opportunist and I very much doubt it. The simple way to determine which route to take is for James to ask to see the portion of the clients bank account, that shows the cheque has been cashed. To be diplomatic, he could ask for it so his accountant has proof for the "tax/vat man" so as to write off the ammount.

Peter

[Lynn Normington]

maybe James’s customer is an opportunist and James being the good guy explains to said customer sorry I’ve lost your deposit cheque, can you cancel it and do a new one, customer thinks got him here, sorry cheque has been cashed 😎 james is perfectly within his rights to ask for proof, and James can also check his own bank statements to be sure he hasn’t made a mistake and forgotten he had banked the cheque, if it is on the customers statement as cashed and not on James’s statement as recieved some investigation needs to be done, I imagine James has some rapour with the customer so it should sort favourably for both.

Lynn

[Phill Fenton]

quote Peter Normington:

Phil , that’s not advice. its just a cynical opinion, most customers are honest, you have no facts to substantiate that the client in this case is an opportunist and I very much doubt it.
Peter

Not so – the only way this cheque could be cashed is if someone else called James Martin had found it and had placed it in their account. This is a highly unlikely occurence.

Why look for an unlikely explanation of events when there is an obvious answer staring you in the face (Occam’s razor).

[Glenn Sharp]

*Gets popcorn and settles back*

[Peter Normington]

Phil, in the real world a cheque can be endorsed by just a signature, and can for all intents and purposes be used as cash in many high street cash convertor type places, they only need to run a check that the account is valid and isnt black listed, even ask if the amount is available, and the cheque will be cashed, less a commission, so again its down to James for loosing a negotiable coupon.

sorry thats the way of the world,

You cant just say you lost something, and expect someone else to replace it for you.

Peter

[Phill Fenton]

You must be living in a different parallel universe to me.

Your universe would imply that I could write myself a cheque out for £1000,000 and my local "cash converters" would pay up.

Sorry – but there are controls in place to prevent that from happening.

A cheque is worthless until it has been properly cleared by the system.

fuck the popcorn – I’m off to bed. 😕

[Peter Normington]

Goodnight and sweet dreams Phil,

I live in the real world.

cash convertors, like I say, can confirm you are good for the amount.
so unlikely to cash a very large sum,

I have done transax for £4000 WITHOUT ID

http://www.streamline.com/new_to_stream … efault.htm

so a hundred quid is unlikely to be questioned.

that is not in a parallel world it is this one.

I hope James gets his money.
and without spending more time and effort than it is worth.

xxx

Peter

[Chris Wool]

thanks good read 😀

[Chris Dowd]

quote Phill:

the only way this cheque could be cashed is if someone else called James Martin had found it and had placed it in their account. This is a highly unlikely occurence.

Wrong Phil.

I have two separate trading companies, and I have banked (and the bank accepted and credited) the wrong cheques into the wrong accounts before, and the names are not even similar!

This is recent too and on more than one occasion! (oh and before anyone calls me a saddo for being up this late, I’m currently in Florida where we are 5 hours behind you 😀 )

[Phill Fenton]

I filled up with fuel on my way into work this morning and noticed a sign on the fuel pump saying "please note – we no longer accept cheques as payment. Please ensure you have sufficient funds in place before fueling your vehicle".

Thus proving beyond doubt that cheques are not the same as cash or credit cards.

Case closed, I’m the winner 😛 😛 😛

[Peter Normington]

Phil,
our local garage doesnt take £50 notes so your argumentt is invalid 😀

http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/crime-vict … ime/fraud/

OK dosnt apply to Scotland, but like I said, its not reportable to the police in the first instance.

Peter

[Phill Fenton]

But this crime happened in Scotland – so Scottish law applies in this case –

i.e. in the case of cheque fraud, you should report it to the police.

[James Martin]

contacted the police, didn’t speak to an expert but he’s advised to write them a receipt for what I have been paid, I.e the balance of the bill and contact citizens to ask what I can do about the lost deposit cheque.

let you all know what happens as it happens.

tks.