Laser Marking Products, Advice needed.

[Robert Lambie]

sorry i cant help mate, i never realised that the lazers could only mark certain metals? 😕

[John Singh]

I think Vitor might be talking about the machines being expensive

…..or Have I got it wrong 🙄

[Vitor Brito]

I’ve a 30W laser, and for marking regular metals we need a special product and that’s what i’m looking for.

I’ve been offered : 200 grs of “Metalfix” (not sure about brand name) for about 160€ (aprx 106£). Can someone tell me about some other product that could be a bit cheaper?

John, altought the machines aren’t properly cheap 😀 ,mine is paid already soo, in this particular case i was refering the laser marking product. 👿

Thx for any advice

Vitor Brito

[Nigel Pugh]

Look up Jorlink on the web

[Vitor Brito]

Thx Nigel.
European distributor, pref. South Europe?

Anyone else knows other produts/suppliers for this?
Thx in advance.

[Rodney Gold]

Vitor , the Cerdec and thermark ranges of metal marking pastes work well (metalfix too).
All of them work on the same principle , cerdec use molybdenum trisulphide and some binders and the heat of the laser puts an indelible black glaze on the metal , much like firing a ceramic.
The biggest problem with metals is that they MUST be uncoated for the stuff to work , often you cant see coatings and what worked well on one item doesnt on another. Another thing to look out for is shiny or high polish metals , the marking paste does not stick well to this and often flakes off during lasering. Anodised alluminium is also a problem area.
Some metals respond better and essentially if the metal can tarnish like silver or brass or copper , dont mark it , cleaning compounds will tend to remove the mark.
All of the pastes are reclaimable in that when rinsing em off , the residue can be reconsituted and used again if you can save it.
Key to getting good results with all these is NOT to over burn it – more power doesnt result in better marks and even more important is the application , a thin even coat applied with an airbrush is first prize , coats of varying thickness are very problematic
Rob , the Co2 lasers we use dont have any impact on metals at all due to the low power and the wavelength of the light it produces , YAG and other lasers of the same power can engrave metals but then they cant do other stuff which we can.
Vitor , this is a HUGE market , stainless steel pens alone can keep you occupied. Target promotional co’s that supply year end gifts to clients to brand them , there are also significant profits to be made in the industrial market , marking medical equipment , tools , data plates etc
We have an orthopedic co that brings us huge amounts of titanium and SS hip joints , sockets etc to do each month. The nice thing about this method of marking is that it leaves no grooves in instruments or the implant that might be a source of dirt and infection.

[Vitor Brito]

Thx Rod.

I’ll try to order some product on Monday morning, just to answer some minor orders i keep geeting almost on a daily basis now, and give it a try.

Have you tried the spray version? I’ve checked some websites that announce a spray version of Cermark. Is it worthy? (Sounds easier to apply)

I’ve read somewhere as well that CeramicMark could engrave on Metals, Glass, ceramics, etc; but on Metalmark it only refers Metals should i buy Ceramic instead of MetalMark? I wanted to buy the most versatil product this way i could try a lot of diferent things before goin to buy a whole range of products.

On ceramicmark i’ve found some colored products (black, bronze, blue etc), have you tried them? If the answer is yes what’s your opinion about them.

Once again THX, your help it’s always unvaluable.

Best Regards
Vitor Brito

[mark walker]

Hi Vitor, have a look at http://www.identify.co.uk the have a paste which I have used and works, it’s not cheap but it’s good and goes a long way when used properly. Appararently works on brass etc. but I would have thought it best for steels. Also you can see this on http://www.epiloglaser.com with more detail possibly.

Cheers, Mark.

[Rodney Gold]

Vitor , the spray can is a disaster – it clogs – get the paste and thin it with isopropyl alcohol and use a fine brush to apply. Do NOT use foam pads as most of the stuff gets absorbed into it.
As far as I know the stuff that works on ceramic or glass is a different product , the demand for laser marking other than the trational laser engraving on ceramic or glass is virtually nil in our part of the workd and we dont bother with it at all. The metal marking market is big – concentrate on that.

[Vitor Brito]

Thx Rod.
I’m ordering at this precise moment some 200 grs of Metalfix, later on the week i’ll let you all know what i think of it soo far.

I’ve had some nice jobs engraving glass for weddings. It’s time consuming , soo i’ve done them alone on my spare time, usually saturday morning jogging 😀 ,as regularly they ask everything with a lot of time before the wedding, i just count that as an extra money. That’s why i asked about those products.

Cheers

Vitor Brito

[Steve Tilbury]

We use the paste available from Identify Systems, and I can confirm that it is a good all round product. For small applications it’s best brushed on evenly, but for larger areas we tend to prefer screen printing it through a 66T mesh with a waterproof stencil for best results. Properly thinned with water you can eke out the paste and get a good return on your investment.

[Vitor Brito]

Got my Thermark product this morning!

I wasn’t sure about making a new topic or continue this one but maybe it’s wise to keep everything together for future reference, maybe someone will have same doubts i have now.

My questions are:

– either using water or isopropyl alcool wich one it’s the best container for the washed solution, and how you make to reconstitute the paste for using it again?

– i’ve tried the paste just as it comes but i couldn’t achieve yet the ideal quantity of it in the material, (altought using a fine brush to apply) so far i found that there was to much or to less paste there, how you know the ideal amount? (A picture of some material aplied before marking would be great, if that’s not asking too much).

quote Rodney Gold:

get the paste and thin it with isopropyl alcohol and use a fine brush to apply.

Percent?, remaining space of the can? before or only when applying?

Edit: Re-reading all the questions they all seem pretty basic, but i prefer to make them before continuing experiences with my 193.60€/200 grs. of thermark (includ VAT), 😮

Thx again for your help

Vitor Brito

[mark walker]

Hi Vitor, I dilute to double the original amount before painting on the metal. This helps any brush marks disappear. If you wanted to save whatever is not used in the engraving then why not wash off with meths into a seperate container and leave the pot open. The meths will dry up and you will have a stiff paste again to dilute with meths to the correct consistancy. I use meths to thin down the paste at any time, if the pot is sealed air tight then no problem. I buy mine from http://www.Identify.co.uk if you want to check if it is the same stuff.

Mark. 😀

[mark walker]

Vitor, did you ever find out what the actual problem was with your 1st laser? Interested for the future.

Mark. 😀

[Vitor Brito]

Hi Mark, thx for the reply,
I’ll check tomorrow if i can find isopropyl nearby tomorrow to dilute it and see how it goes, my problem is that i dunno the ideal consistency that the product should have,honestly i dunno how someone can tell me that in words and i didn’t want to be playing with that without any clues, i don’t have anyone with a laser for reference near me.

About the 1st machine,
I don’t have any answer about that altought i’d like to know aswell, the supplier is still struggling between 2 diferent offices to see who is going to be held responsible for the laser tube they ordered thinking it was the problem. (chat.) When/if i got an answer i’ll post it.

Thx again

Vitor

EDIT: Just checked the link, apparently yours is LMM 6000 and mine is LMM 14, but i dunno if they’re similar or not in aplication, maybe Rodney can explain the diferences between one and the other.

[Vitor Brito]

I couldn’t find yet the ideal consistency for the use of the product altough i tried Marks advices.
I did a few metal markings already, but i don’t think they have been perfect as i’d like them, clients are happy anyway, but i’m not.
Can someone send me some other useful tips on this?

Thx in advance

Vitor Brito

[Rodney Gold]

Be careful with speed and power and the substrate , in general the rule of thumb is to use 100% power and a speed equivalent to your laser source as a % , like if you have a 25 watt laser use 25% speed. Too much power tends to “overburn” it as I said before.Too little makes it faint and will allow it to rub off. Your consistency should be that you can just barely see whats under the coating. A little goes a long way.
It really works best on stainless steel. Clean off the item with a little meths or benziene to degrease it.
Check your focus on your laser , its sort of critical that its spot on and also check your DPI , as you drop DPI spots dont overlap as much and you can get a faint engraving. Dont use air assist.
Curved surfaces can be problematic do to beam divergence or convergence over the higher or lower surfaces and you dont get enough power density to zap the item
If for example you focus on the high spot of a pen , raise the table by 1/2 the height of the curve you intend to engrave. with a 2″ lens your depth of field is not a lot . maybe 1mm.

[Rodney Gold]

another thing I forgot is thin lines , the marking paste will generally thicken up lines and text etc , often just putting a white hairline outline instead of no outline will result in more definition.
What exactly are you unhappy about?

[Vitor Brito]

Thx Rod, i’m unhappy coz sometimes i got a sort of fuzzy, engraving but i’ve tried a lot on auto and manual focus and i couldn’t achieve the result i wanted, best result i’ve achieved was with one pass just kiss cut mostly to even surface of thermark, and then 25% power (30 watt machine), that’s why i asked advice on the percents and application of product, i think maybe the major problem comes from there.

Thx again.

Vitor Brito

[Fizgig]

Another way of applying the product perfectly is to use a ” preval” spray container, for those that arent sure what they are, they are basically a glass jar with a replaceable spray canister of compressed gas. Available from auto accessories suppliers or specialist spray shops.
Very convenient and put down a perfect crisp coating of cermark/ thermark/ metalmark/ metal fix…which incidentally are basically all the same product or 99.9% identical

regards
Fizgig