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Laminate Failure…Help!!
We have prints run for us on a Versacamm. We have used liquid laminates without any problem until the last couple of weeks. The print is on Orajet 3551 with a screen-printing varnish as the over lam. We spray it on and it has worked fine for the last 6 months. The varnish supplier thought it may be contamination of the clear so we cleaned the spray gear and replaced the clear, still no good. It only happens in certain areas. We have also tried different vinyls and the same thing happens. I have checked with the printer and he says he has not changed a thing. I know a lot of you do not recommend liquid lams but we have had great success until now.
Vinyl left for 24 hours before over-laminating and then another 12 hours after it has been cleared. Any ideas would be appreciated.
Thanks.
Johnny
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16 Replies
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i can see image mate, but can you explain whats happening as its a little hard to make out in pic 😀
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Thanks Robert. The “mottled” bit is where the clear has come off, this is also pulling off the print. We laid this up with app tape to put it on and its only pulled the clear up in the one patch.
Make sense?
Cheers
Johnny -
my pet hate spray on clear now you now why.
bought a laminator and not looked back (yet).
we had all those problems even very low tak tape it might seam easyer untill you get used to laminating. ah! no dust no waiting to drychris
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Thanks Chris
I know that a laminator is the cure all, but we do not have one (as of yet) and this problem has only just started appearing. I was hoping that someone might have an idea as to why? contamination at the print end? etc.
Thanks
Johnny -
is this coming off after the print has been applied mate… or is it actually reacting with the printed surface?
sorry for all the questions, im not even sure i have any answer at the end of this 😕
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Its coming off after the print is applied and the app tape removed. There is no reaction when we spray the vinyl and the clear is touch dry in about 15 – 20 minutes depending on the temp.
Cheers
Johnny -
is this happening in the corners/edges of the recessed areas?
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From your sample picture the delamination is only on the print. Is this happening on areas where there is no print? If it is only on the print, this would suggest a compatibility issue with the lam and ink, don’t you think?
Have you checked for the stupid basic things, like greasy fingermarks?
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It appears to be only be where it is printed.
The clear we use is supplied by one of the Verscamm agents here in NZ so it should be compatible as he is aware this is what we are using it for.
We do handle the prints very carefully but I have no guarantees the printer is doing the same.
Thanks for you time guys.
Cheers
Johnny -
Sorry Robert missed your reply.
All of the prints that have failed have by coincidence been on flat surfaces, the one in the picture is on glass.
Johnny -
if only in printed areas ide have to agree its gotta be compatibilty…
have you changed ink supplier?
the reason i thought flaking etc in recesses after application was… if its stretched a little into place or even if not… after a few days the vinyl will try pull back/shrink… the laminate will not reacte in the same way and try hold its own.. the surface it holds onto is shringing so it can really only flake/break away… well that was my idea behind it…
ill get my coat :worry:
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The guy that prints them says he has not changed the inks in a while. It looks like there is no answer. It just @#$^ me off that it has only just started happening.
Thanks again.
Johnny -
It could be temperature related, has the ambient temp changed?
The clear spray may have changed slightly between batches?Have you tried wetting the app tape after application to reduce it’s adhesion?
I use a clear inkjet fixative on my hp prints but they have the inkjet coating to fix to. On the Cadet prints I laminate them by hand.
Biggest I’ve done by hand is 8ft X 4ft. Not as good as a laminator but still better than having the clear spray coming off.Steve
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see new post as i cant put a pic in this one.
quote :The clear we use is supplied by one of the Verscamm agents here in NZif it has a juice in the name and using app tape it will fail – thats my experience anyway others may say its ok – you pays yer money as they say
chris
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If the varnish is for screen printing, it’s probably solvent based and therefore a non-no for solvent prints. You should use a waterbased liquid lam like:
Viponds digi-clear (works well) made in Melbourne, available from Spandex.
Triangle fleetclear – distributed in Oz by Celmac. Don’t get the d308 clearflex – it cisses on banners and vinyl (not on the print though)
These are easily applied with a roller or paint pad and offer pretty good protection. Won’t resist solvents though.
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Hi Guys thanks for all of the replies, Chris I have used the clear you mentioned and had no problems, trouble is its not available here in NZ anymore. I was pretty keen to use the Viponds but I am advised you need to use a Didgiclear primer first (Bit of a pain). The temperature is warmer than when we first started using it so its got me stumped. I was advised that the solvent based clear we use is suitable for the Versacam prints.
Chris The picture in you post scares me, as I have mentioned before we have had no problems with the clear until now. We did our own vehicles over 6 months ago and the are still fine (touch wood).
It looks like we may need to purchase a laminator or in the interim try a water based clear.
Thanks for all of you help.
I’ll let you know how I get on.
Cheers
Johnny
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