Knowing your neighbours?

[Paul Rollason]

We have a very good relationship with many of the sign shops in our area.

They are always willing to help out in an emergency and I would always help them.

Like you say, There can’t be many industries like it anywhere.

Long may it continue

paul r

[Andy Gorman]

The only (what I would call) decent signmaker in my town is an ex-employer of mine. We get on famously and rarely find that we are competing on jobs. They are a much bigger outfit than myself and come in very handy for routing, engraving, printing etc. In fact, we are swapping some labour on Friday: I’m fitting a sign for them and one of their lads is coming with me to help me fit a big sign. It’s also nice to have someone with a LOT of years experience to advise when something new comes up.

[Peter Normington]

I dont have a relationship with any local sign firms, On the odd occasion that I asked for them to make something for me, I was always quoted a ridiculous price, just made me more determined to sort it myself.
Not tried them all though, there are more than 100 within 20 miles.
In the real world most firms are very terratorial, no matter what the trade
Peter

[Shane Drew]

I like to think I’m a team player. I’ll work with any of my opposition, I have a good relationship with some, but others I probably wouldn’t trust to do a job on my behalf.

It is a shame that some sign shops don’t have a better attitude when it comes to working together, because you never know when you are going to need help, or can offer help.

This site is unique in the helpful nature of its members. I would love more aussies to get involved as it is a great source of advice for everybody. The signs industry is the same the world over.

Cheers

[Iain Gordon]

I havnt introduced myself to any yet( apart from stephen from here on the boards) To be honest i wouldnt have a problem helping anyone out with my limited knowledge, but a avery small fish in a big pond i cant see it happening very soon

Iain

[Nicola McIntosh]

quote dsi:

I like to think I’m a team player. I’ll work with any of my opposition, I have a good relationship with some

me too but it’s the sneeky ones that annoy me…. 😕

nik

[Jill Marie Welsh]

I selected one, even tho there are about 10 near me.
The guy with whom I am pals is also my mentor and a fine hand painter.
He also tells the best jokes.
The others are all instant places or Johnny-come-latelies.
(one a guy I applied to 25 years ago in another town who told me I’d never be a sign painter…tra la! He is the new kid on my block)
I did have to deal with 2 of them recently.
One didn’t know what an .ai was, and the other treated me like I was a Nazi spy.
I initially tried to befriend my competitors, but was not well recieved.
I am the only Letterhead in town, too.
I would rather be friends with everyone, up to a point.
Love….Jill

[Rodney Gold]

It’s pretty competitive and somewhat hypocritical in my part of the world , we do do work for other sign guys at reduced prices , but non are my “pals” and most of them would try poach my clients in a heartbeat. Most of my competitors use the badmouth method to dissuade thier potential clients from using me as well. They come to me when they need something and behind my back , put the knife in. In general , even if we do do the job properly and the other guy is at fault , we are blamed. A lot of the work is mickey mouse too “It’s just one small plate I need in an hours time , we can give you LOTS of work”
At the end of it all , we will only deal with and do work for co’s that are not remotely classed as competitors to protect our own interests.
We do often take folk around our facilities , but have very little to hide in this regard due to the mix of machinery and the way we apply it
Letting someone see you have a sewing machine does not make them Coco Chanel. I also find that when competitors or other sign cos approach you to do work , they make their problems yours , like they are behind schedule and put pressure on you to get them out the fix , and thus you have to shift your production. Pricing is also a problem as they mostly bleat that they charged their customer X and you have to adjust your pricing accordingly , apart from which , often that type of work is vastly less profitable than your own. There are also communication problems (mostly due to them being suspicious of you and NOT giving you the full client brief) and often one has to fix up their artwork etc. They are generally MORE demanding than a retial customer. Apart from all that , often what happens is in doing another co’s work you allow them to build a market and when they see how much work YOU are doing for them , they go out and buy a machine (and generally the latest machine is better than yours) and go into direct competiton, so in essence YOU created the monster that now confronts you!!
Then of course there is the aggravation of seeing a competitor or another co actually approaching YOU to do a job you quoted them and the original co for as well , they have no overheads on the job , its an in and out and thus they can afford to drop margins – we used to allow other sign cos a VERY fair discount so they could make a decent profit , we stopped this COS of this type of thing happening , the spread between trade prices and retail has now been reduced on our side.
I find farming work out also loses me control and I now become dependant on another supplier to come thru – and over here , they will abandon YOUR job if a better paying proposition comes along.
We would rather spend out time doing samples and marketing than aiding other signage even if we do have the capacity for production , cos the returns on this are better.
I think a alot of how you approach this depends on the level of business you have and your org , I have 20+ staff to pay and incredible expenses and thus doing less than profitable work or building up and helping a competitor is seen as taking food off mine and my staff’s tables.
this type of forum is another thing however , I do realise that perhaps some of my competitors view my posts etc , but in general the forums are international and the effects of giving info here are not as radical as doing the same in your locale.

[Chris Hooper]

I have to admit to being very sceptical when I set up the business about my local competition, I had the usual, with other firms sounding me out on my prices. There are around 25 sign makers in the town, 5 of which we do not compete with directly, as they tend to target the larger corporates and multiples and do a lot of work out of town. These quite often point the small jobs at us. Kind of crumbs from the “rich mans table” I know but I take it as it comes. Likewise these larger ones have the kit sometimes I need to do a job.

Out of the others we probably help out 2 others where we have kit required to do a job, i.e digital print, lamination and graphic panels and the sort of thing, like you run out of a vinyl on a Saturdays morning can you lend me a couple of meters. We have a couple of instances from the others of “bad mouthing” us to potential customers. My view on this is that they do more damage to their own credibility than mine.

Interesting replies – thanks! [/quote]

[Carrie Brown]

We dont get involved with any local competitors ….. I dont think they would really want to get to know us …… we are friendly and definitely don’t bite, sniff or malt, but despite this they still dont appear interested 😕 The two longest established companies appear very old school and closed off to any other company … which is fair enough, each to their own as they say!

We do however work with a few print/design companies who offer signs as a service and bring the work to us. Actually, on thinking back we did have a one man band who just did small signs and labels ….. we borrowed some vinyl off him once … but then he moved and we dont know where he went to so never got to return the favour?

We do have a sign guy/cowboy/muppett/moomin/camel/couldcallhimmorenamesbutwont local to us who just doesnt really have a clue in our opinion what he is doing and who once put his details on a sign we made …. he really actually applied (as in applied vinyl) his own details to it ….. he only did this once but once too many in my book!! 🙄

😀

[Jayne Marsh]

I have managed to stay friendly with my ex employer and can always ring and ask for a couple of metres of vinyl if Im desperate, also Im on very good relations with another local sign company who will laminate stuff last minute for me if necessary and also fix my bigger jobs for me.