Kicked off site by Health & Safety man!

[Phill Fenton]

What a Dickhead that H&S man is. I’d have probably ignored his instruction and carried on regardless and waited to see what happened next.

The last time I had dealings with an overzealous H&S officer I told them I was no longer prepared to provide a fitting service for his company. They subsequently had to buy the signs from me and fit them themselves.

[Gwaredd Steele]

As tempting as that was Phill, I didn’t want to screw it up for my customer, as I get a load of work from her husbands building company, so it could’ve backfired, especially as it was on an army camp, so they make their own rules up. It was the same Army camp that recently marched one of its own to death in the heat as ‘punishment’.

As it was, they were both really cool about it.

At the time though, I was 50/50 as to say ‘make me’ as I was much bigger than him 😎

[Peter Normington]

quote Steele Signs:

As tempting as that was Phill, I didn’t want to screw it up for my customer, as I get a load of work from her husbands building company, so it could’ve backfired, especially as it was on an army camp, so they make their own rules up. It was the same Army camp that recently marched one of its own to death in the heat as ‘punishment’.

As it was, they were both really cool about it.

At the time though, I was 50/50 as to say ‘make me’ as I was much bigger than him 😎

Was the h&s guy a civvie? I presume he was, Anyway a bit of diplomancy may not have gone amiss (ok hark who’s talking)

Something on the lines of, "sorry guv, I did tell the lad at the yard to load the hand-rail, Little Twot must ‘ave forgot, can I just do without this time, I’ll make sure it doesn’t ‘appen again"

Then if he still asked you to leave, A smack in the gob would have been OK 😀

Peter

[Gwaredd Steele]

If he was civie, he’d have approached me with decency in the first place! (chat.)

And that’s not diplomacy Peter, that’s arse licking 😉 & I just can’t do it, especially when I know I’m right 😛

A hand rail for 3ft in the air? Pffffftttt! Do me a favour, the guy just had a bee up his arse.

[Peter Normington]

Well you can break a leg falling from 3′ perhaps the soldier was concerned about your welfare? 😉

Peter

[Micheal Donnellan]

I agree with Phil tell him to fit his own signs or make the H&S git shut up and grow up.

[Peter Normington]

Trouble is Micheal, telling customer what to do only makes them go elsewhere. fine if you can afford to to that. Even I have to bite my tongue once and a while. 😀

Peter

[Shane Drew]

My wife is a H&S Officer at her work with over 300 staff and heaps of contractors to keep under control.

I don’t know if the law is different there but if she sees something that is wrong, or something that she considers ‘not safe’ and choses not to say anything, she is responsible legally if there is an injury as a result, and can be sued as well as the Chief Company Officer. The company insurance policy is also void.

Often, the company will instruct H&S officers, my wife included, to clamp down on some things that, tho legal, they may have concerns about. Perhaps they have access to statistics that show what you were doing has a much higher level of risk at sites like they have.

She’d never ask someone to leave unless they were obnoxious or giving her grief. But she would draw your attention to something if she needs to cover her back.

That said, I was at a theme park recently, owned by an american company (aren’t they all) when a security man told me I had to remove my van to the car park 2 klm’s away. I told him that it was unreasonable, and he was welcome to check my van over if he had concerns about security. He told me to move it immmediately.

I said he should ring his boss as I had permission to be there (I had been doing this job every 6 months for 8 years). He asked me to leave again and then called for backup!

I told him if I leave, I would not be coming back. He insisted I move back to the car park and he’d call me when HE was ready for me to come back in.

I left and drove home.

1 hour later I got a call from the big boss wanting to know where I was. Told him the story and he was stunned.

They sacked the security guy from that job (gave him a desk job I think), and asked me to come back the next night.

End of the day, you’ll get a jerk at any time in any job. I try and work around it on the day, but sometimes your not going to win. Give a guy a uniform and sometimes it goes to their head.

[Peter Normington]

I hate contradictory arguements Shane.

If your good lady is within her rights to ask someone to leave, if she is concerned, how come the guy that asked you to leave got the bullit?

dont you feel a little bit guilty? we all have a job to do, even H & S peeps and traffic wardens?
Peter

[Micheal Donnellan]

traffic wardens are evil power mad shites

[Peter Normington]

quote Micheal Donnellan:

traffic wardens are evil power mad shites

Now.. now.. Micheal, take a deep breath, just cos you may have got a ticket,
Its not really personal you know…
😀

Peter

[Micheal Donnellan]

OK I may have been a touch negative(just a tiny, microscopically bit negative) 🙂

[Peter Normington]

😀 😀

[David Rogers]

quote Micheal Donnellan:

traffic wardens are evil power mad shites

Well, at least half of them are…..I’ve been forced to move whilst parked in a loading bay & fitting a sign at the shop 4′ away from it. "I don’t see you unloading", "move it or I’ll ticket you". Shame for him that I had my ‘special helper’ that day – 6’2" and about the same around, ex-MP and not afraid of a bit of confrontation (all happening behind the van), I go out to see why he’s taking so long to hear "Police Assistance required, CCTV on my position"…..well, one old ‘pocket hitler / jumped up old fart’ as two guys looking a bit peeved that they can’t work in a effort to bring some more business into the area.

Conversly, I have been ‘unloading’ for about 3 hours on double yellows, in a busy square after flagging down the warden & saying we were fitting a sign – "no bother, just put your hazards on".

Thought I might have had a H&S issue whilst in a local shopping mall – but thankfully the ‘method statement & risk assesment’ absolves them of any responsibility – works for me…works for them!

[John Childs]

quote Peter Normington:

I hate contradictory arguements Shane.

It’s not that contradictory Peter.

There’s a bit of difference between a Health and Safety issue and some jumped up little parking pillock who just wants to mess you around and wait on his convenience.

As for the "everybody has a job to do" argument, I don’t subscribe. I take the Frodo Baggins view that if a job has ceased to be respectable then you should cease doing it. People who revel in making other folks lives a misery deserve whatever they get.

[Shane Drew]

quote Peter Normington:

I hate contradictory arguements Shane.

If your good lady is within her rights to ask someone to leave, if she is concerned, how come the guy that asked you to leave got the bullit?

dont you feel a little bit guilty? we all have a job to do, even H & S peeps and traffic wardens?
Peter

Peter, H&S is for the ultimate good of all concerned. We may not like it, but if they have the right motives, I see no problem with conforming to their request.

The security guy however was just being a bully. He was on a power trip.

I had been doing that same job, with the same instructions, long before he got out of nappys.

I had authority, from a much higher power than him, to be there. If he had of got off his high horse and picked up his two way that was proudly slung over his shoulder, a quick check would have been all that was needed.

I was pleasant, and concillitory. I was being employed to change the menu sign prices for the start of trade the next day. The computerised cash registers had been changed already.

I knew the situation, management knew the situation, but the security guard, in choosing not to make a quick call, paid for is ignorance.

No I don’t feel at all guilty. Not in the slightest mate. 😉

[Peter Normington]

Shane and John, Yeah I know, I hate jobsworth’s, Just a bit of devil’s advocacy 😉

Peter

[Gwaredd Steele]

After having a day to reflect on it, I’m still feeling spite towards the H&S man. Yes, I know he’s a job to do & if he felt that @ 3ft off the floor I posed a high risk to myself & his company, fair enough, but to ask me to leave site when I had menu boards to erect inside the same building for the opening of the canteen today (in which he shall be eating in no less) was out of order. That’s just being nasty.

Bottom line is, he thought I was delivering the signs, not putting them up & as it’s a army camp, he had to be with me until I had finished, but he wasn’t prepared to wait around in the heat, so made his own rule up about height & put it across in such a way that it’d get the queens back up straight away.

I must say in my defence, I was polite & courteous to him right up until the point when he asked me to leave. I’ll wait for karma to do its thing (bully)

[Ivan Morley]

To the best of my knowledge, the law no longer states a height for which safety devices are required. The risk assessment will determine the suitable precautions necessary for the work

From INDG401 – Working at Height Regulations – A Brief Guide:

"The Work at Height Regulations 2005 apply to all work at height where there is a risk of a fall liable to cause personal injury. They place duties on employers, the self-employed, and any person who controls the work of others (eg facilities managers, building owners, or householders who may contract others to work at height) to the extent they control the work."

I presume you submitted a method statement before going on site? Attended a site safety briefing / induction? Provided with information from the site safety department?

It does sound as if the H&S man was having a bad day and took it out on you. I know from experience that H&S Officer / Manager is a stressful job, and the lack of an Approved Code Of Practice means that there are many differing interpretations of the law!

Ivan

[Gwaredd Steele]

quote :

I presume you submitted a method statement before going on site? Attended a site safety briefing / induction? Provided with information from the site safety department?

Hmmm… for two menu boards & a 4’x2′? I think not! :lol1: For that little lot, I would add £250 on the bill, to which the customer would have said FO. 😉

Annoying thing is, the construction work was supposed to have been finished, so I went in unprepared at no fault of my own.

You’re right about the law tho, just rang H&S. Basically, if you stand on a chair to change a light bulb & the H&S officer deems it unsafe, he can boot you off site with no warning or reason, i.e. make the rules up as they go along.

I will be using Phill’s stance on this from now on & say delivery only. It’s just not worth the hassle.

[Shane Drew]

I recently got a call from the Brisbane Transit Centre, asking for a small sign that needed to say ‘Bus Parking Only’

Quoted them $45, and I’d fit it next time I’m in the area.

The manager told me it was not urgent, but when I did come in to fix it to the wall, I’d need to allow an extra 2 hours to do the induction, and pay my $25 induction fee.

I said fine, but I’ll have to charge you for my time waiting etc. He said that he couldn’t authorise that. So, I said find someone else.

Wasting 2 hours, paying $25 for a job I’m only going to get $45 for was just plain stupid.

They rang me back about an hour later and asked if I’d supply only and they would get their maintenance man to fit it.

Problem solved from my point of view. They did tell me that they have a big problem getting small work done around the place, and when they did get someone out there, they charged a fortune.

I wonder why….

[Hugh Potter]

where’s gorman when ya need him ? (chat.)

[Checkers]

Let me see if I’m understanding this correctly. You went to deliver a couple of signs and the client asked you to install it and you said no problem.
Then, as you’re installing the sign, the company’s health & safety officer, that is paid by the company, said that you are operating in an unsafe manner and you must stop the work?
If this is so, I would have asked for the guys signature on the delivery receipt and handed him the signs and wished him a good day.
If the company called to complain, I would politiely explain exactly what happened and offer to travel back to the site to install the signs for an additional fee – which would include the additional cost of the proper scaffolding 🙂

Checkers
a.k.a. Brian Born
Harrisubrg, PA USA

[Peter Normington]

Brian, you got the general idea, but h&s rules in the uk.

Thats why the bayonettes, as fitted fitted to british army rifles, have a flute machined down the centre, It allows a clean flow of blood, so minimising the risk of blood poisoning!

Peter

[David Rowland]

Yep Brian.. fraid so… the UK has become "blame society"

[Shane Drew]

quote Dave Rowland:

Yep Brian.. fraid so… the UK has become “blame society”

its heading down that way here too Dave. Our government ‘borrows’a lot of Mr Blairs ideas, so I expect it will get worse here before it gets better.

Its all about litigation here.

I did some signs here saying ‘Danger – pool construction in progress’. The client requested red text on a white background. They are required by law here to be displayed on all property entrances during the pool construction process.

After I printed 50 of the darn things, some safety official told me in a court of law, the signs would be deemed illegal because they should have had black text.

Its just madness now. I would have thought red text would have given it some urgency. The guy told me everything else was correct, just the colour was wrong, making the sign invalid. :banghead:

[Lance Sherrard]

This clever little chap just cost someone more money and I guess you got another job out of it.

Ohh well can’t help bad luck I guess.

Ohh yeah Gooday Shane

[Shane Drew]

quote Lance Sherrard:

This clever little chap just cost someone more money and I guess you got another job out of it.

Ohh well can’t help bad luck I guess.

Ohh yeah Gooday Shane

no mate, the client took his chances and kept the red ones. Reckons if it came to a court action he’d argue that it was a stupid argument.

How are you anyway mate. you’ve not been around for a while lately. you been ok?

Not seen Nancy or Simon for a while either. Must be these aussies hibernating for the winter

[Lance Sherrard]

Been lurkin abit just not postin, ya know stamps are spensive.

We’ve been good down here doing quite a few small jobs but nothin major. Weathers been a bit yukky so yeah, been inside alot. Lookin forward to the heat in a coupla months.

Saw Nancy about a coupla days ago but haven’t dseen Simon for a while.

I’m gonna take a short trip out to the RecCab and I shall return. Can I get anyone a stubby ?

[Shane Drew]

quote Lance Sherrard:

Can I get anyone a stubby ?

nah thanks mate, chowing down on a fine mug of tea right now, & some white and dark chocolate for evening smoko 😛

[Andrew Bennett]

quote Steele Signs:

👿 Just got kicked off a site because a Hitler H&S man said

Cheers,

Gwaredd.

Err, you did ask him for a written notice to cease and quit didn’t you?

[Gwaredd Steele]

Just to clarify a few things. The H&S guy works for a big company called Aspire, who have got, along with a load of other building companys, a 5 billion pound (yes, billion) contract to re-build Tidworth Army camp, so I can understand the need for H&S to be shit hot.

The signs were for a small company who has a permit to sell the food from the canteen that the signs were for. The permit can be revoked at any time, hence me not wating to make too much of an issue & hence me not just saying ‘fine, install them yourself’ as it wouldn’t have mattered a damn to him.

I went back yesterday wearing my dark sunglasses & trenchcoat & installed them & I’m still alive 😛

I’m happy, customer’s happy, H&S man will be peed off when he see’s them up on Monday morning 😀

Edit: Yes I did ask for the relevant paperwork but he just shrugged 😕 When things calm down, I will file a complaint. Thankfuully, it’s not just me. A local electrical firm just paid £700 for some swanky steps with an enclosed guard rail, but same H&S man didn’t like the fact that said gaurd didn’t self close & ordered it off site 😮 He must know more than the designers 🙄

[Simon Clayton]

Must admit some of them H&S rules are plain stupid, but then again i did see a photo of someone standing at the very top of one of them folding ladders ( the ones that fold up and go in the boot of a car) fitting a sign, seeing that you can understand there reasons.

Peter without a groove in the bayonette a vacum would form and it makes it very hard to pull it out once you plounged it in someone..