JV3 Bulk Ink

[Bill McMurtry]

I have a bulk ink system on my 6 colour 160s. Been running Jetbest full solvent ink for over a year now. While I’ve yet to experience any downside with this setup, the upside is my ink cost is $25 (USD) per litre 😀

[Kevin Flowers]

John what ink are you looking to use ?

Kev

[John Thomson]

I have no real preference………just interested in what benefits and pitfalls others have found.

John

[Shane Drew]

quote John Thomson:

I have no real preference………just interested in what benefits and pitfalls others have found.

John

John, Techink do a JV3 Bulk ink system.

http://www.pdfdownload.org/pdf2html/pdf … images=yes

Great products

[Martin Williams]

Hi John,
I have been running on a bulk ink system over a year now and after trying 4 different ink suppliers and having problems with rubbing and scratching off have been running with sun ink and have had no problems for the last 6 months paying £70 a litre. The ink seems more aggresive than others available and seems to key to everything.

Martin

[John Thomson]

Thanks for the replies……….are re fillable cartridges the way to go? Do they need ‘chips’?

John

[Shane Drew]

quote John Thomson:

Thanks for the replies……….are re fillable cartridges the way to go? Do they need ‘chips’?

John

Techink do ink for refill cartridges, the chips I’m not sure about. I think they let you buy whatever you need to run, then just use their inks.

The key to the ink you choose is not always dependent price.

Make sure the pigments are the finest you can get, for the best long term head use.

I’ve been talking to other users of other bulk ink systems, that run about the same amount as me on average…. that is about 5 – 6 hours a day on 8 pass.

I’ve had my first machine for nearly 5 years, and I’ve only replaced 3 heads… 2 black (the most common head to go) and one magenta. By any standard, that is a very good result.

The black head will be the next to be replaced again, probably in the next few months.

I’ve spoken to other bulk users, using other inks, and one company has been thru, on average, 4 heads a year. They changed over to techink last year, and have not changed a head since.

It is more expensive than others on the market, but the results I’ve found is that the savings in down time and replacement parts has been the bonus.

I know others use cheaper inks and are happy with them, and its hard to quantify given that we all use our machines at different rates, and have different maintenance regimes, but it would be wise to research the ink as much as the savings.

I converted my second machine without any hesitation, based on my results with the first unit.

Hope you sort it out anyway John.

I’m happy to send you a sample of the print if you want to see some.

Cheers
Shane

[Kevin Flowers]

John
i’ve been looking at Lyson 2000 inks and yes the Lyson name made me walk away at first but although the name remains they are now owned by a major USA ink company. I was surprised to learn the Mactac offers a warranty if Lyson ink & Mactac media are used as a combination. I am seriously looking at putting them in my Pro 2 as the ink i’m using now has become a pain and i seem to run around in circles with the manufacturers, who seem to not worry that i need colour consistency etc. I have looked at several inks mentioned on the boards, Jetbest but only 1 UK distributor, Techink not found a UK distributor & Mega Ink only available in carts. Obviously it can all be impotrted but the problem is most of these inks should never be kept below 5c & in this country during transit that does occur. What damage it does to the ink i do not know but check out the data sheets on any ink you might try & also check the recommended working temp most inks like 20c+. Low temperature can cause clogging of heads pumps etc because of low viscosity.
Rambling now but hope some of the info helps.

Kev
Happy New Year to all

[Ian Johnston]

i have used techink in my rockhopper II for 2 years now and am delighted with it, D O’sullivans in Dublin do the kit and supply it.

Ian

[David Lowery]

quote John Thomson:

Thanks for the replies……….are re fillable cartridges the way to go? Do they need ‘chips’?

John

Typical Scotsman……..chips with everything :rofl:

[Martin Williams]

Hi John,

I would never look back from using refillable cartridges. I use cartridges as found on the link-ink website, I tried their ink 1st and when bought the ink got the cartridges free + free chips everytime ink ordered. Had problems with scratching off had ink-tec blame the media and the media company blame the ink. Had link-ink ring me recently and said they had changed Tried allsorts to remedy it so changed to itlgb inks which were ok had no problems except with service they came and installed a bulkink system ontop of the printer with tubes to the cartridges and set up profiles. As soon as engineer left i opened printer cover (he hadn’t secured ink tanks) knocked them down the back of machine ripped all pipes out and covered walls,carpet and me in ink trying to stop it. The system that they installed had taps on to fill the cartridges up. If you forgot and left the taps on overnight the valve would sometimes stick and overflow with ink (happened a few times). The valve would sometimes stick and starve the print of a colour also. This bulk ink system lasted about 10 days and i cleaned the old cartridges out and used them. Itlgb supplied chips with ink. After a few service issues with supply and talking with Bill McMurty from this board tried jetbest from Taiwan very cheap at the time around £17 a litre + duty. Delivered within 3 days i also bought some parts that were very cheap from them. The ink was scratching and rubbing off and the smell was toxic (I would have put up with the smell for the price) i spoke with bill a few times but had no look i can only put it down to climate as Bill is from down under and after trying different medias,profiles and settings decided to try suninks as we had a visit from a representative called Gareth (Nice chap) a couple of months earlier. He wasn’t at all pushy and didn’t even try to sell us the sunink products he was clued up and gave us a few pointers and tips had a coffee and a chat left his card and told me to give him a ring if we encountered any problems and needed any advice.
Suninks use a company called photologic to distribute the ink to myself we had absolute nightmares with them on service at the start Gareth tried sorting it out and everything was blamed on a new computer system . We were quoted £70 a litre and being charged £82 which took an eternity to sort out. I would have told them to stick their ink where the sun doesn’t shine but was that happy with the printing results put up with them. The service is still only ok so we keep a litre of each colour on the shelf as it can take them 3-4 days to deliver on the odd occasion. The chips have to be purchased seperately although the 1st order we did recieve some with the inks. I found somebody selling permanent chips and cartridges on fleabay from Canada from memory i think i paid £240 for the 8 chips and bought a spare cartridge also ontop. The supplier was kind enough to mark the goods as samples to avoid any extra charges. The chips just reset back to 9 when the printer is turned off and back on. I just topup the cartridges(hold approx half a litre each) I had one of the magenta chips stop working after 2-3 months so i emailed the supplier in Canada who sent me a replacement with me paying the postage. I should be able to dig his email address out if you want to get a price from him. I also took an insurance policy out on the printer i would have to check but from memory around £30 a month which covers any breakdown accidental or malicious + loss of earnings upto £16k i have to pay the first £500 plus the vat content. I had a claim for £12,500 paid out in march when i was changing a damper caught a ribbon cable and blew the mainboard + got the tech to put 4 new heads on also under the insurance.
Hope this helps.

Martin

[Simon.James]

after owning a jv3 and selling it recently, i cannot understand why anyone who is using a lot of ink on jv3 would want to consider after market inks.

surely if you running lots of ink, you are making tons of money! a jv3 running correct firmware will print full out for £1.50 – £2.50 a metre.

beware of the early firmware mimaki loaded 5.3 ? i switiched to firmware 7.1 after several arguements with hybrid, my ink useage went down 10 fold over night. also never move your mimaki as this can also alter your ink consumption (according to the engineers moving a jv3, moves the floats in the cartridges giving false readings back to the software).

i personally would shop around for good prices on original inks and forget bulk systems, you are introducing air into the lines where as the original cartridges are pressurised and cause none of the problems that occur with these so called bulk systems

[Peter Normington]

quote Simon James:

after owning a jv3 and selling it recently, i cannot understand why anyone who is using a lot of ink on jv3 would want to consider after market inks.

surely if you running lots of ink, you are making tons of money! a jv3 running correct firmware will print full out for £1.50 – £2.50 a metre.

beware of the early firmware mimaki loaded 5.3 ? i switiched to firmware 7.1 after several arguements with hybrid, my ink useage went down 10 fold over night. also never move your mimaki as this can also alter your ink consumption (according to the engineers moving a jv3, moves the floats in the cartridges giving false readings back to the software).

i personally would shop around for good prices on original inks and forget bulk systems, you are introducing air into the lines where as the original cartridges are pressurised and cause none of the problems that occur with these so called bulk systems

Simon
I agree with you on staying with carts, unless on a really tight budget, original or pattern but, there are no floats in them, none that I have found anyway.
I have never had a problem moving my mimaki, and do so often to change media

Peter

[Peter Normington]

quote Martin Williams:

Hi John,

I would never look back from using refillable cartridges. I use cartridges as found on the link-ink website, I tried their ink 1st and when bought the ink got the cartridges free + free chips everytime ink ordered. Had problems with scratching off had ink-tec blame the media and the media company blame the ink. Had link-ink ring me recently and said they had changed Tried allsorts to remedy it so changed to itlgb inks which were ok had no problems except with service they came and installed a bulkink system ontop of the printer with tubes to the cartridges and set up profiles. As soon as engineer left i opened printer cover (he hadn’t secured ink tanks) knocked them down the back of machine ripped all pipes out and covered walls,carpet and me in ink trying to stop it. The system that they installed had taps on to fill the cartridges up. If you forgot and left the taps on overnight the valve would sometimes stick and overflow with ink (happened a few times). The valve would sometimes stick and starve the print of a colour also. This bulk ink system lasted about 10 days and i cleaned the old cartridges out and used them. Itlgb supplied chips with ink. After a few service issues with supply and talking with Bill McMurty from this board tried jetbest from Taiwan very cheap at the time around £17 a litre + duty. Delivered within 3 days i also bought some parts that were very cheap from them. The ink was scratching and rubbing off and the smell was toxic (I would have put up with the smell for the price) i spoke with bill a few times but had no look i can only put it down to climate as Bill is from down under and after trying different medias,profiles and settings decided to try suninks as we had a visit from a representative called Gareth (Nice chap) a couple of months earlier. He wasn’t at all pushy and didn’t even try to sell us the sunink products he was clued up and gave us a few pointers and tips had a coffee and a chat left his card and told me to give him a ring if we encountered any problems and needed any advice.
Suninks use a company called photologic to distribute the ink to myself we had absolute nightmares with them on service at the start Gareth tried sorting it out and everything was blamed on a new computer system . We were quoted £70 a litre and being charged £82 which took an eternity to sort out. I would have told them to stick their ink where the sun doesn’t shine but was that happy with the printing results put up with them. The service is still only ok so we keep a litre of each colour on the shelf as it can take them 3-4 days to deliver on the odd occasion. The chips have to be purchased seperately although the 1st order we did recieve some with the inks. I found somebody selling permanent chips and cartridges on fleabay from Canada from memory i think i paid £240 for the 8 chips and bought a spare cartridge also ontop. The supplier was kind enough to mark the goods as samples to avoid any extra charges. The chips just reset back to 9 when the printer is turned off and back on. I just topup the cartridges(hold approx half a litre each) I had one of the magenta chips stop working after 2-3 months so i emailed the supplier in Canada who sent me a replacement with me paying the postage. I should be able to dig his email address out if you want to get a price from him. I also took an insurance policy out on the printer i would have to check but from memory around £30 a month which covers any breakdown accidental or malicious + loss of earnings upto £16k i have to pay the first £500 plus the vat content. I had a claim for £12,500 paid out in march when i was changing a damper caught a ribbon cable and blew the mainboard + got the tech to put 4 new heads on also under the insurance.
Hope this helps.

Martin

Best reasons Ive heard so far not to use bulk systems,
I’m sure you are not condoning making false claims on your insurance though?

Peter

[Simon.James]

hi peter

at the bottom/side of the ss2 catridges is a little widget type thing! hybrid engineer reckoned by moving the machine on its wheels was enough to disturb said widgety thing (float), thus i stopped moving machine locked wheels, changed firmware and never had another problem?

theory or fact i dont know, but thats one of the excuses they offered when i was using far to much ink.

how are you doing peter did you have a nice chrimbo?

[Simon.James]

when the credit crunch blows over i am toying with the idea of buying the new cgv 3 ??? (mimaki print & cut)

any feed back has anyone bought one as yet?

cheers

Simon

[John Thomson]

I asked the original question just to hear other peoples experiences….good or bad.

It would be stupid to make a mistake with ink that someone else had already made……….seems that some ( well respected )people make an informed decision and increase their profit margin whilst maintaining print quality and reducing waste and a negative effect on the environment with repeated disposal of plastic cartridges which are more often than not never actually empty. Others swear by original ink…….I can’t help but think that printer purchase prices are subsidised by inflated OEM ink prices……

All in an interesting subject……..brought more sharply into focus when my JV3 today informed me that one yellow cartridge is nearing the end of its life……….

Thanks for everyones input…….Martin, who is your insurer? that is FAR cheaper than a maintenance contract…

john

[Peter Normington]

Hi Simon,
excellent crimbo thanks
I never had a problem using excess ink, but I have an sp2 so maybe different.
Peter

[Simon.James]

i think mimaki

are now starting to realise with there newly designed print and cut machines that nobody wanted to pay upto £900 everytime the inks run out and have to buy a set of 8 instead of 4.

the new ink system still uses 8 cartridges but claims to piggy back rather than draw off both cartridge at the same time. this meaning it uses 4 inks and then starts the 2nd set of cyan, magenta, yellow and black only when the first set are depleted. I think they may have been loosing a lot of business to roland, uniform etc .etc. becuase of the early 4 + 4 systems (crazy idea!).

the inks are also claimed to be even better faster drying, virtually non toxic and even more scratch resistant. but at the moment even the budget machines are considerably much more expensive than there equivalent counter parts. I will be very interested to see what sort of deals Hybrid start to offer next year?

Simon

[Peter Normington]

quote John Thomson:

I asked the original question just to hear other peoples experiences….good or bad.

It would be stupid to make a mistake with ink that someone else had already made……….seems that some ( well respected )people make an informed decision and increase their profit margin whilst maintaining print quality and reducing waste and a negative effect on the environment with repeated disposal of plastic cartridges which are more often than not never actually empty. Others swear by original ink…….I can’t help but think that printer purchase prices are subsidised by inflated OEM ink prices……

All in an interesting subject……..brought more sharply into focus when my JV3 today informed me that one yellow cartridge is nearing the end of its life……….

Thanks for everyones input…….Martin, who is your insurer? that is FAR cheaper than a maintenance contract…

john

Weigh it, then you will be sure its as good as empty, I use mine till they are on the final cc’s. and btw you can recycle the carts, if you are that worried about the environment, Print one will collect and refill them….

Peter

[Martin Williams]

Hi Peter,

I don’t condone making false insurance claims but after being stood for a week whilst the mainboard was shipped from Japan when back up and working again i had either a nozzle blocked or deflection on each head so demanded all 4 be changed. I wasn’t going to take the chance of them clearing under intense cleaning or running. What would you have done if the insurance were paying.

I decided to swap to a bulk ink system when my machine was 11 months old i had a breakdown and it took hybrid 5 working days to get to me (that must have been the gold cover i had) i had to have a new pump,slider board,main board,4 new heads and 4 new dampers. It took 3 visits and 18 days for hybrid to repair the printer. I was running genuine mimaki carts but because i hadn’t bought them from one of their approved suppliers they said i wasn’t covered under their warranty. A nice solicitors letter and they backed down as the machine has to have a 12 month warranty.

I believe that you don’t get anything for nothing and paying roughly the same price for a 440ml cart as i pay for 1 litre, I think you are paying for the extended 1 year warranty. Also i use all the ink in my 1 litre bottle, do you use all the ink in a 440ml cart ?. I use 4-5 litres of ink every 2 weeks saving me over £4000 a year. The saving allows me to compete with others using bulk inks.

I don’t know if true or not but the engineer that repaired my printer last told me hybrid had given permission for one of their uk suppliers to use a bulk ink system for use with sublimation ink, that would make me think mimaki don’t produce a sublimation ink.

Martin

[Shane Drew]

Interesting comments about the bulk systems….

Been using them for 5 years, never done any damage, never had a mishap…. ever.

I move both my machines constantly to change media.

My bottles are on a tree. each with 6 bottles that fill 12 carts. Techink here have discontinued the tree system though, because of the extra expense. They have gone to top up carts.

Maybe its because I’m running Roland’s and not mimakis…. I don’t know, but I’d never advise against a bulk system.

I changed ink suppliers due to the massive savings I can make. Yes, I do use a lot of ink each month, which makes the savings even more worthwhile. I’d probably not consider a bulk system if you are using minimal inks anyway, but I wouldn’t talk you out of it either.

When I changed over to Wasatch Softrip, from Roland Colorrip, my ink usage also dropped. I also upgraded to the latest firmware which manages ink better, but to use the scenario that if you are using heaps of ink, you are making a motza is not really a good argument from my perspective.

The competition is very tight in the market I target, any savings I can make on each job helps me to secure a tender. That, and well aimed quote software is the two strongest tools in my armory.

John is correct in his assumption the manufacturers profits are in their ink sales. That is the main reason they have chipped the new cartridges. It guarantees them a sale. That is the very same reason you can buy a desktop printer for $70 here. Its the inks that are the expensive bit, often as dear as the printer itself for a couple of replacement cartridges. They work on the theory that you are locked in to their ink. With chipped cartridges especially.

The reason I changed over to a bulk system is because the inks are better than the original inks, and half the price per litre.. They are full solvent, and I run CMYKOG, unlike original inks that a eco inks and run CMYKlmlc. The finished prints are harder to damage, and the colours are more vibrant.

So whatever you decide John, I hope you work it out. As I said before though, a lot of variables in which will work best, but ink quality and savings are definitely worth considering with whoever you go with, if you go down that path.

[Martin Williams]

Hi John,

I’m pretty sure it’s with Norwich Union but i will check when i go back to work on the 5th. I will dig the brokers name and number out for you.
The only downfall i found was that i had to ring round companies for an engineer to repair the machine. All parts have to come through hybrid it seems and with a mainboard being £5500 and printheads £984 each(I have bought the identical printheads from Taiwan for £225 each).
I rang hybrid and their first question was where did i buy my inks from. When i told them i used bulk inks was told it’s not under warranty. After telling them it was insured the tone in the persons voice changed and they were only too happy to send somebody out. I used AIT instead an approved hybrid distributor.
I spoke to the insurance company whom paid AIT directly for me as it was a large sum of money and i didn’t want to pay then struggle to get the money from the insurers.
I had no problems with the insurers just told to get whoever i wanted in to repair it.

Martin

[Peter Normington]

Hi Martin
Thanks for clarifiyng the situation about the insurance, I did look at capital equipment insurance for my machine, and as you point out, it only covers accidental and malicious damage. In your case you were within your rights to have the heads replaced as it was damage as a consequence of the initial accident. The insurance company could have decided to have the heads cleaned first though, rather than fit new ones.
Just pointing out that capital insurance can have disadvantages over some maintenance contracts, so worth looking at the small print of both.

I suppose its up to the individual to decide if they underwrite the risk themselves, and the same goes for a maintenance contract..

Having read about all the trouble you had with setting up your bulk system,
(inferior inks and installation faults,) it just looked like more hassle than its worth in your case.
But despite the hassle you obviously feel it is still worth it. and your comments will help other not to make the same mistakes.

Peter

Peter

[David Rowland]

my comments about bulk ink, well it appears it is around half price of original ink, so its quite simple.

OEM Carts: Low Risk to heads, simple change cartridge, low risk to skin/ink spill, ink always fresh, less risk of it being incompatible, whats on the label is your normal tested ink.

vs

Bulk Ink: Greater Risk to heads, top up or bottle fed, risk of air bubbles, filters may need changing, cartridge bulk ink system problems?, carpet/floor leaks, ink smell, re-profiling if it is different, wider gamut in some cases, ink in contact with skin?

I personally think bulk ink systems are worthwhile if you are pumping through a lot of ink and need to cost save and you buying a regular supply of fresh ink often. If you after an accurate output then you need to re-profile, if you think its close then fine. Smell of some of these inks, some are smells like cats pea and to be honest could that be okay for a companies reception graphics next to an operator? And if you just got the printer and not experienced enough then I suggest stay clear until you had experience with how to tackle pumps, heads, dampers, etc.

Cost saving, is half the price of a cartridge in my experience, but prices of carts came down and so has the price of bulk ink. We have staff and I also prefer them to just pull a cart out and change it with another or I have to provide safety goggles, gloves to them and they will possibly not wear them to fill up a cart lol.

Oh I forgot about the Waranty thing, yes the mimaki is not covered if you use 3rd party ink.

[Martin Williams]

Hi Peter,

I will dig my policy out next week as i’m sure it also covers loss of earnings and theft.
As for the bulk inks i learned the hard way.

Martin

[John Thomson]

quote :

As for the bulk inks i learned the hard way.

Martin

This is what I hope to avoid 😀

Thanks everyone for their comments……much appreciated.

john