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Is VOC free paint the new enemy for wall graphics?
Hi,
We had 2 jobs that failed recently because what we believe it is low VOC or Zero VOC paint. (Volatile Organic Compounds).1. Wallpaper, full coverage, finished in the evening, next day in the morning was all down on the floor.
2. Cut vinyl decal applied to the wall, few days later, all peeling off.Luckily, both jobs were small enough and there wasn’t much loss.
It could not be the vinyl because is the same we use for many years and never had issues. But you can see clearly that it does not stick properly to the wall. If you stick a bit of masking tape to these walls, it will peel off in 5 minutes.I looked on Internet and I could not find a solution. I cannot see how this can be prevented but to get a sample and try it before every single job. But this can be unpractical and sometimes there is no time for trials.
How do you deal with this matter?
Cheers
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21 Replies
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How long had the walls been painted? Allow at least a week to ensure the paint has finished outgassing
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Good find Daniel
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quote Phill Fenton:Good find DanielEcho that Daniel – really useful info – thanks! :thumbsup:
Hugh -
quote Phill Fenton:How long had the walls been painted? Allow at least a week to ensure the paint has finished outgassingJob 1 – almost a year.
Job 2- 2 months (office, damn hot in there, it could be fully dry in 1 day). -
quote Daniel Evans:Take a look at this http://multimedia.3m.com/mws/media/1193 … -walls.pdf
And here’s the video:
$this->BBvideo_pass(‘$8’, ‘$4’, ‘$7’)My only concern is the IPA might smear the wall, especially the colored ones, and if you do not do a full coverage…not good, no?
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just wondering what the customers face will look like when you do the test and rip a load of non voc paint off the wall!!!!!
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quote Hugh Potter:just wondering what the customers face will look like when you do the test and rip a load of non voc paint off the wall!!!!!
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Another signwriter local to me did a whole interior of a restaurant with print, every single wall! He told me he did quite a bit of preparation on the walls which involved sanding it down as smooth as possible and then painted on some mixture of water and glue I believe, to give a great surface to adhere to!
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Interesting….ive got two 5m walls to wrap this week, i normally apply an A3ish size substrate and leave for a couple of days to check adhesion, but this time ill use the ipa and water cleaning method as well just in case…..
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Just found out what paint it was used to paint the wall:
https://www.duluxdecoratorcentre.co.uk/ … oft-sheen#
Now, I am passing this over to the vinyl manufacturer to see what they say.
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Interesting. Had a similar issue recently on one wall in a building that was painted grey. Am going to put some breeze block vinyl on first, then the graphic over the top. Sure that will bond no bother.
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Interesting, I’ve had a few problems recently and this is almost certainly the reason.
Steve
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Yes it looks like this is becoming more and more of a problem. I got caught out with this today, I had checked how long it had been since the walls were painted (a few months I was told) but discovered the vinyl really didn’t want to adhere.
I think the advice offered up by 3M doesn’t really solve the problem. What happens if the test piece you try applying rips the paint off (which is highly likely) or the dilute IPA solution stains the wall?
The point is there is definitely an issue with certain paints which we should be wary of – and explain the problem to the customer.
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I think I’m getting there, I have just tested the StreetWrap vinyl and also the MAcTac WW300. They both seem to work well although I believe the StreetWrap is getting a better grip.
I have also tried Metamark Metamark MDP-H. It seems a bit better than MD3 but nothing near the above ones.Also, I made it very clear to the customer…we won’t be liable for any wall damages.
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Just tried the Avery MPI 2006 on a wall we are having trouble with. No luck.
https://graphicsap.averydennison.com/en/home.html
See attached PDF down below for reference:
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quote Chris Wilson:Just tried the Avery MPI 2006 on a wall we are having trouble with. No luck.
Try one of these, sure will work: StreetWrap vinyl or MAcTac WW300. AllPrintSupplies do samples, get some and do a test. Worked for me. Make sure you take no liability for damages, these are genuinely high tack vinyls.
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quote Chris Wilson:Just tried the Avery MPI 2006 on a wall we are having trouble with. No luck.
try the Avery MPI 8726
sticks like the proverbial, canvas /stone/stucco finishes and is easy to apply.
See lower down for attached PDF document:
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Very interesting post this.
Metamark actually suggests using a primer before fitting their Walltex materials.
Partly for repositioning & also to increase bond strength among other things.
https://www.metamark.co.uk/I presume this would apply to any wall materials, vinyl or textile.
This will obviously help but still won’t account for loose paint on a poorly keyed surface!See attached PDF document:
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quote Myles Brewer:Very interesting post this.
Metamark actually suggests using a primer before fitting their Walltex materials. Partly for repositioning & also to increase bond strength among other things.
I presume this would apply to any wall materials, vinyl or textile.
This will obviously help but still won’t account for loose paint on a poorly keyed surface!!It might work well if you do full coverage but if you only do a cut out shape or lettering then doesn’t quite work.
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Ahh yes, you’re right there I guess. Have to say I wasn’t really thinking of cut graphics.
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