is it best to fit banner vinyl dry or wet ?

[Steve Broughton]

Tim hi mate, get yourself some of those speed clamps like carpenters use and some 2″x1″ and clamp the banners to your workbench and do them dry, no probs. 😎

[bathurst shane]

Definately dry for the banner. You will probably find that even dry you will be able to reposition the signs quite easily. Be careful when removing the pre mask that you dont pull the sign up with it. I have a peice of 2″ x 1″ timber that i clamp down overe the top of the banner to the bench to hold them in place.

[Glenn Sharp]

Tim,

I assume you are using banner vinyl.

It depends on the size of image you are sticking really.

We’ve done some biggies with 4ft high lettering, where you can only stick a couple of characters at a time.

Putting banner vinyl down wet is really quick & easy because it allows you to easily squeegee out any bubbles but it gets a quick grip on the banner to allow you to get the application tape off straight away.

Best of luck, Glenn

[Tim Painter]

Maybe a Newbie but yes Glen I am using banner vinyl 🙄

Thanks for your feedback

[keith]

We always do our banners wet especially the longer ones. It allows for quick re-positioning, even when laying up on your own.
A good squeegee and the jobs done!

Keith

[Robert Lambie]

clamping or nailing to the bench is a must for banners.. doing them loose just causes hassles, mistakes etc
good banner vinyl tends to be very sticky. although i stress “always dry”
it is harder than normal vinyl to put down for a beginner. sooo.. if it has to be wet then go for it.. but give it plenty time to dry out and squeegee plenty water out.. i wouldnt use a fairy liquid though 🙄 just a mist of water if you have too…

god im getting soft 😕 ide normaly moan the face of you guys for laying it up wet.. 😳

DRY for the cup! 😉 😆

[keith]

I really must persevere with this dry thing.

I suppose its what you become confident with but I always end up with the graphics in either a scrunged up ball with me doing a Zulu war dance (hot) or it ends up being a body wrap that a fashion model would be proud of 😳 😳

Keith

[Robert Lambie]

very true keith.. stick to the method you can best make money with mate.. 😉 no point binning every second job.. 🙁

i would always advise to have a play around with the off cuts now and again though, as it does speed up applications and gives your vinyl a better life 😉

[keith]

What I would like to know is how long all this extra preparation takes.
Clamping the banner down, measuring, tacking with bits of tape, then when in position adding more tape before finally peeling off the backing paper and eventually the application tape?

The way we do it is to put small marks with chinagraph along the length.Lay a line of 1/2 inch paper application tape along the length, mark the middle, squirt, lay and squeegee. Leave for about 5 mins before removing application tape. Job done.

Perhaps I don’t fully realise the full process of dry application.

Also (this applies to all dry application) if the graphic is cut off the length of vinyl complete with backing paper and yet there is say half (or more) of the vinyl unused does this not create a lot of useless bits?
By using the wet method the graphic is removed and the remaining vinyl is left on the roll for doing smaller jobs. This, as I see it anyway means more profit.
Or am I totally off course?

Keith

[bathurst shane]

quote keith:

Also (this applies to all dry application) if the graphic is cut off the length of vinyl complete with backing paper and yet there is say half (or more) of the vinyl unused does this not create a lot of useless bits?
By using the wet method the graphic is removed and the remaining vinyl is left on the roll for doing smaller jobs. This, as I see it anyway means more profit.
Or am I totally off course?

Keith

I always cut my rolls of vinyl straight off after each job. I have never been one to leave say half the width on the roll. You will nearly always find the next job will not fit on the “leftover” and you have to cut it off anyway.
Most of the vinyl is use is 610 wide and i can usually make most jobs fit into the sheet width without too much wastage. I just put the off cuts into a scrap box and have a dig around when i need something, and most of the time there is nothing the right size, so i have to get the roll out anyway.

BTW, when the scrap box gets too full i take it to my daughters child care centre and they think all their chritmas’ have come at once. Half the walls in the place are covered in patches of vinyl.

[Jill]

we did 16 17ft x 5ft banners a few months ago I had them flat on two sheets of ply and they were kept in place with screws in each corner through the eyes 😮 we use Oracal 651 on all our banners its brill stays nice and flat and is a bar steward to get off and we allways wet it a little.

Regards

STEVE

[J. Hulme]

Banners? 😛
Large lettering or graphics, wet application only here. Its far too supple and malleable to apply dry.
Apply large stuff dry and you’re just asking for headaches and problems.
Smaller lettering can usually applied dry without problems.
Depends if you like to send your work out complete with free bubbles included, I suppose, & I don’t.

[Robert Lambie]

dry is not a problem in the least keith.. ide say i could easily apply dry and beat someone doing the same banner next to me wet any time..
not meaning that in an “OH IM SO FAST ETC” KIND OF WAY.. i just mean other than 4 screws with a cordless or using a g-cramp to hold a strap of wood which takes only a few mins to do.. i just mark my banner and apply right to it.. i strip it immediatly after applying and roll it up (vinyl facing out) when im finished.. job done.
i know your in the game 3 years or so, so not to worry.. once you feel a bit more comfortable with your vinyls. ide suggest trying now and again “dry” with small stuff. i think you would be surprised how fast it is & how little effort it takes.

jill:
if these banners are “exterior” & are to last anymore than say a few weeks ide suggest re-doing them before you get a call. 😕
651 is not a banner range of oracal. you want 451.

outline:
after 20 years in the game mate ide have thought you could have applied banners dry with your feet mate.. 😆 😆 seriuosly though…
banner vinyl is a bit more difficult than normal vinyl to apply, yes! but certainly not that difficult. large or small, i still aplly dry, & NO i dont send it out with bubbles and wrinkles. i wouldnt accept it myself so why ask my customer to?
ide suggest you give it a go some time. im sure with a bit of practice you would convert. 😉

[keith]

One day Rob I will give it a try 🙂

I noticed the time of your post. Did you not sleep last night 😉

Keith

[Simon Clayton]

I’m with outline on this one…that stuff is so soft, that once it gone down there’s no repositioning.
I only put down dry if my applictor is wider than the letter

Simon

[J. Hulme]

quote Robert Lambie:

outline:
after 20 years in the game mate ide have thought you could have applied banners dry with your feet mate.. 😆 😆 seriuosly though…
banner vinyl is a bit more difficult than normal vinyl to apply, yes! but certainly not that difficult. large or small, i still aplly dry, & NO i dont send it out with bubbles and wrinkles. i wouldnt accept it myself so why ask my customer to?
ide suggest you give it a go some time. im sure with a bit of practice you would convert. 😉

I can 😛 , it’s just far for easier wet.

and I’ve never stretched, clamped or used any other holding method.
Just roll it out and apply, wet 😉

[Robert Lambie]

hi outline
im not trying to say applying dry is easier.. wet is obviously easier.
i meant it is faster (even though clamping takes a few minutes :roll:)
i would also say its also better as the adhesive gets a better bond first time. ultimately giving the job a better life. 😉
applying wet is easier all round. on vehicles, banners, signs etc but there is a drying out time.. (if done properly that is) you cant just squeegee down text or panels of vinyl tear of the tape and roll the banner up.. if so the trapped moisture beneath the vinyl will cause bother further down the line.
clamping is not neccessary even when dry. but does help alot. im sure even when applied wet you still pull the banner up when removing the app tape from each line of text.. clamping just reduces this.
i am not trying to say to anyone they must change their method or that their method is wrong.. if your happy then fine.. but at least consider what i am saying. 😀

[Steve Broughton]

quote Jill:

we use Oracal 651 on all our banners its brill stays nice and flat and is a bar steward to get off and we allways wet it a little.Regards STEVE

I’ve used 651 on a banner before at a push and found it to be OK, not banner vinyl I know but its still stuck their 2 years later, it was for a market trader and I see him almost every week, the banner still looks fine.

Wet or dry, do it the way you feel comfortable with, as long as it sticks who gives a monkeys 🙂 but I do tend to do banners dry.

[keith]

It’s true Rob, taking the app tape off still lifts the banner so perhaps clamping and still applying wet is some middle ground?
I am intrigued to know what you mean by a better life. Does the vinyl not last as long if put on wet? Or is it more care has to be taken initially until it is fully dry? Or is it that the vinyl doesn’t adhere as fully?

Sorry so many questions but if I know why I’m more inclined to give things a go.

keith

[J. Hulme]

quote Robert Lambie:

hi outline
this.
i am not trying to say to anyone they must change their method or that their method is wrong.. if your happy then fine.. but at least consider what i am saying. 😀

Hey, I do listen Rob, I listen and respect all points by everyone and enjoy to learn new things, ways and means from all members on this group. Although I lied, I can’t do a banner with me feet, I tried today 😛

One point though Rob, when I do use an application fluid with banner vinyl, I seem to get a pungent, breath-taking, almost alkaline taste / smell, is this something to do with the special adhesive and maybe a chemical reaction which combines and produces a gas?
Maybe I shouldn’t be doing it wet then 😀
Cheers