information please on laser engraving machines?

[Robert Lambie]

i know rodney gold thinks highly of these machines mate. i am sure he has about 3 working round the clock.
i know very little about them, but i did stand watching, along with Andy Gorman at signuk last year while one intricately engrave some clear pespex then cut round it in a matter of seconds. the both of us were very impressed… so much so, andy pushed me to the floor and run of with the sample once the guy took it out the machine. 🙁 come to think of it, the big sod did that at every stand. 😥 😥

[Jon Fields]

yes i like what they are capable of.. i understand certain materials like crystal..you have to steer clear of, and the metals need coating if marking etc, but certainly acrylics are cut in no time at all..it’s the ongoing costs as well im interested to know..such as how long the co2 tubes last etc an how much to replace..
..if i see Andy with large carrier bags at sign uk this year..at least ill know what’s im em! lol..

Jon

[Nigel Pugh]

Jon if you can give me a call I will be more than happy to outline the consumable costs and the ongoing costs etc

Nigel

[Rodney Gold]

One could most likely write a book on this to answer your question but the most IMPORTANT factor to consider whatever machine you get is backup and service and warrantee!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Do NOT uderestimate the importance of this.
A laser engraver can either be a licence to print money or a total loss , it boils down to your creativity and marketing skills and the direction you follow. It’s far more than a signmakers tool and you need a fair amount of knowledge of materials to utilise it best.
We are currently running 3 lasers and have a further 3 on their way to us , so in a period of 5 yrs or so have gone from a single unit to 6!!! for us , its VERY profitable.
We use GCC lasers as there are 2 big players in my country , Gcc and Trotec and the GCC offered a lot more then the trotec did in terms of functions , ease of use , warrantee and to a certian extent backup. I am to some extent biased towrds these machines so bear that in mind.

The running costs of a laser are minimal and you will incur more or less the same costs as any other moving machine , you might have to replace motor or a belt or a bearing or a damaged optic now and then , but most makes are pretty relaible in their platforms and most of them do what any other laser can do. Parts are not horrendously expensive. Be aware that there are lasers coming out of china at rediculously cheap prices that will probably accomplish what the more expensive established machines will do at about 1/10th of the price , for example a 70 watt machine like this
http://www.hxlaser.com/en/products/laser.htm (1260 model) is $3750 FOB, the tube is a glass tube that would last about 6 months using it 6 hrs a day and is $125 to replace – that is EXCEPTIONALLY cheap , however support etc would be severley lacking and there is no guarrantee as to engraving quality – but at that price , Im sorely tempted to take a chance and bring one in!!!!
In terms of established brands , the laser source or tube is horrendously expensive to replace , not that horrendous to repair , but still a big chuck. There are figures of 20 000 hours tube life bandied about , but despite us using both Synrad and Coherent sources ,(the 2 major source mnfgrs) neither have proven to be anywhere near as realiable that and we have replaced many sources under warrantee. I would at least set aside a thousand quid a year for this eventuality – a new 30 w source is likely to be in thee 3 grand region or a 1/3rd of that to repair and you can amortise that over 3 yrs if you lucky. Most mnfgrs have a swap type system , you send em your source and they supply you a loaner or a reconned one and repeair the old one , laser sources tend not to fail completely , the RF boards or some other component goes and generally a reapir does NOT entail regassing or some other expensive operation. Downtime is a problem , make sure that whomsoever supplies you a laser will guarantee you wont be down for more than a day or 2 or 3. A laser has the potential to generate a quid a minute and you can easily do 300 quid a days worth of work per machine and thus a few days out can throw you badly.
As to power , well that depends on what you do , a potent machine will cut thicker stuff and cut other stuff quicker , it will probably NOT make engraving applications any faster as lasers work with 2 parameters , speed and power. If you are only engraving at 50% power , you would have speed at max 100% , you cant go faster , if the material needs a deeper engraving , you might be engraving at 100% power and 50% speed. Most engraving is done using less than 100% power , and a 30-50 watt machines is most likely optimal if you have a good mix of applications.
Thickness of stuff cut is to some part dependant on power , however the way the final optic works will determine max thickness , they have a focal point and there is only a limited area either side of the focal point in which there is enough power density to cut effectively , a 100W laser WILL NOT cut 4x the thickness of a 25w.
If you want to cut stuff like perspex all day long , power is what counts as for example a 25 w machine would cut pex at 2% speed and 100% power , getting a 100w machine would decrease cutting times to 25% of this thus doing 4x the work in the same time. Power costs big time , I would rather get 2x 30w machines than 1 x 100w if you arent doing cutting only.
Working areas or max engraving area is also something you must look at , buying a big area machine cos you *might* just have to do something big is not a good strategy , lasers are difficult to align in terms of how the optics work and a large area machine makes alignment critical as small changes produce a dramatic effect in terms of power losses over the table. You might have only 1/2 or less the amount of power the further the head is from the origin if there is even the smallest misalignment. It’s possible to align yourself , but its fiddly.
It’s almost impossible to compare laser specs , 100% speed on my laser might be comepletely different on yours , ultimately , the cycle time to do a job is what counts , the quicker it can be done the more competitive you are and the more money you make
You need to take a file or an item you want produced to the seller and ask them to do it , time how long it takes and look at the quality of the job.
do this with all the machines you are considering.
Another thing is how the laser combines with the graphics package you use , Corel is the standard , if it does not print from Corel ,pass it bye!! If there is some proprietory software it uses , do the same , it MUST print from windows!!
Motion systems are also important , a stepper based motion system without feedback is not advised , if the machine misses a step , your job is buggered , a servo motor motion system with shaft encoder type feedback is the way to go.
Bells and whistle “features” are not worth considering , the fact a laser can do 3d , rubber stamps and had a photograph driver and a whole lot more is irrelevant , look at your needs and not the useless bells and whistles
Making stamps is a waste of time and we have NEVER used the 3d capabilities of our lasers to any extent. Rotary engraving attachments(IE engraving on round objects) can be useful , the rotary attachments on GCC lasers is not good or inbtuitive , but do get the job done.
Dont let all theses geegaws sway you – buy a system based on SUPPORT!!! I cannot emphasise how important this is!!
I can’t think of other stuff right now , but if you want more info , just ask.

[Jon Fields]

Hi Rodney…i thank you for your honesty and guidence on this..sure there is a lot to consider..and like you said..it’s got to work for the type of jobs i want from it..no doubt i ll think of other questions..i ll keep you posted..

many thanks

Jon

[Jon Fields]

Just adding onto this subject..If I have an image or logo that needs to be laser engraved and the customer has the image on a business card let say..am i right in saying the files still have to be vectorised in order to clean up the image, or does the laser work on completely different file types?

I knew i’d think of something else!

Thanks

Jon

[Rodney Gold]

No , thats the beauty of it , the laser can do both vector and raster images , it more or less acts like a dot matrix printer when it engraves firing a pulse where the engraving is. Obviously Vector images ARE better in terms of sharpness and the ability to manipulate em , but it’s a snap to engraved stuff like scanned photos , logos etc.
If you are vector cutting , when the laser acts like a plotter or a vinyl cutter , you must have a vector , so you could engrave a persons head from a scan , but you would need a vector line to cut the head to shape.
You can engrave and cut in a single “job” , IE will do both operations in a single file sent to the machine.
There is a program called Photograv http://www.photograv.com which is an essential if you want to do photos or indeed a lot of other raster type engraving , it prepares the file specifically for the laser. You can do it yourself in photoshop , but its a mission , the program gives you very good results without having to be a rocket scientist. If you can print it , you can engrave it is the general rule.
Lasers do greyscale as well using halftones so you can do some really sophisiticated work , some will even do 3d engraving based on shades of grey.

[Martin Forsyth]

Hi Jon

I can’t reply via PM….

I havn’t had any problems with my Epilog laser engraver so far – I found it really easy to get to grips with.

And the Photgrav software Rodney recommended is so easy to use, and gives excellent results!!

As for my grade? now that would be telling 😎

[Jon Fields]

Cheers martin.Good to know you are pleased with the machine..

Jon

[Martin Forsyth]

Jon

I can’t reply to your pm – the system wont let me.

Can u let me know your email address pls?

Cheers

Martin

[David Norris]

Can you laser engrave metal pens on these machine’s (with some form of rotary attachement)? would be a worthwhile investment for our company if it was possible.

Regards

Dave.

[Rodney Gold]

You can engrave metal pens with a laser in 2 ways
1) Using a co2 laser and coating the pen with a film that allows it to engrave a black mark that is bonded to the surface metal. You can use a rotary attachement , but a laser can work on curved surface depending on the lens , with the standard lens , you have about a 4-6mm depth of field , IE you can work on the curve so long as it doesnt bulge more then 4mm or so.
2) Using a Galvo YAG laser that will work directly on metal (Co2 lasers wavelength is not correct for this) Galvo lasers steer the beam with a moving mirror and are very very quick, Cycle times for engraving a pen are in the order of 10 secs or less .
If you were going to do vast production , a YAG is the way to go , if you want flexibility and a large working area and a much cheaper laser , CO2 is the way to go.

[David Norris]

Production runs would be in the 1000’s and would be just pens we where after engraving/marking.

Could you point me in the right direction for a suitable machine.

Many thanks in advance.

Dave.