I want to start-up Business on my own, advice needed?

[Chris Wool]

hope your boss can’t see this just looked at you company web site.

only advice i can give is if you have to borrow money to start then you are on a downer to draw 2 wages and payback is hard work

[Bob Clarkson]

At the risk of this sounding cliched, don’t give up your day job!!

This is not meant derogatory in any way, it’s just start-up business can take a little while before it starts making livable income. 9k is not a terrifying outlay considering the potential income if and when it all starts going well, but that can take a bit of time.
Work from the garage, evenings and weekends for at least 6mnts to make sure it’s going to work out. After this, you can work out how much more work you can do by having a unit etc, and whether the amount of money you will earn will cover and justify the cost of the unit. Many companies struggle because of overheads, not necessarily lack of work or personal ability.
Don’t know the grants system at present, but years ago a few of my friends got them and it seemed to be relating to personal circumstances as opposed to blanket cover. Personally, Id have a little chat with the local council and see if they have an enterprise/partnership scheme for advise on these aspect, also your bank, accountant and the job centre has a team purely for this purpose. Remember that when being given advice most of these people have learned it out of a book and earn their money as a set wage with paid holiday, don’t take any one persons advice, (including mine!) as gospel, due to the fact there are so many variables .

[Lee Mansell]

quote Chris Wool:

hope your boss can’t see this just looked at you company web site.

only advice i can give is if you have to borrow money to start then you are on a downer to draw 2 wages and payback is hard work

Ooops ya got me worried there. Obviously I wouldnt go after his customers, Id like to find my own. I have 30k at my disposal, and i would like to keep on working while i slowly build up something for myself. Maybe a few evenings a week and see how it goes from there.
Its something that ive allways wanted to do and and to better myself.

[Lee Mansell]

Thanks for your advice Bob, I will look into getting in touch with the job centre for some advice.
All im lacking is the business know how…. My partner is brilliant in sales so she is well up for phoning customers etc.

[Bob Clarkson]

If you tell them you’ve got 30k, I don’t think there’s going to be too many grants available, might be best not to mention that bit. 🙄

[Lee Mansell]

quote Bob Clarkson:

If you tell them you’ve got 30k, I don’t think there’s going to be too many grants available, might be best not to mention that bit. 🙄

Well its equatee tied up in my house. Me and my partner are moving in together and renting and I intend on selling my home. But if theres finacial help around i wont say no 😉 and Its all that the tory government harp on about so im all for it.

[Bob Clarkson]

I don’t want to ask personal questions, so I don’t expect or want an answer.

Rent is total loss, and the landlord probably won’t want you working from his house either. Personal circumstances dictate a whole manner of justifications, but selling and using equity, then renting seems a very strange and risky route.

Please don’t think I’m prying, it’s just that I’ve dealt in property over 20yrs and all you’ll be doing is working hard to make someone else easy money..

[Lee Mansell]

The reason for the sell is so I can release some money and get stuck into this idea of mine. My house isnt really that big especially if i was to move my girlfriend in with her never ending supply of hand bags lol. (ive know my girlfriend for years now) "If" it goes well then get back onto the property ladder later on. I didnt really think about the issue with the landlord, but was thinking if i could find a landlord who will be ok with my plans?? You never know.
This is why im looking at as much advice as i can get, what options are open to me etc etc.
I know its a big risk…. but ive learnt if you dont take a risk things will just stay the same as they were.

[David-Foster-]

quote Bob Clarkson:

Rent is total loss, and the landlord probably won’t want you working from his house either. Personal circumstances dictate a whole manner of justifications, but selling and using equity, then renting seems a very strange and risky route.

Rent is not always a total loss Bob. True, it does depend on your personal circumstances. Lee’s house could lose £30k in value in the next few years, plus mortgage payments will not have reduced the mortgage in that time. If Lee borrowed £30k to set up the business, the repayments would be crippling.

Sorry to go off topic Lee 😀

We sold our house at the end of 2009. My wife had a quick job move last year, had to find a house quick to save a 200 mile round trip everyday. We found a house to rent, moved in 1 week after seeing it, none of that conveyancing marlarky, fees etc. and heartache. The house is far better than anything we could afford to buy, so going to enjoy life for a couple of years with no worries about negative equity 😉

I know it depends where you live. The south east doesn’t operate like that, I know, but up t’north things aren’t that rosy if you are trying to sell.

[Bob Clarkson]

David, that’s very true houses are likely to loose that amount of money over the next few years.

But if you have 30k in equity, you can only release it if you sell in one form or another. You only loose if you sell with the market low, and don’t buy in the same economic market, otherwise it’s just numbers not money.

some of my properties have been paid for two and three times over by renters over a period of years, and I still have these particular properties earning me money every day, plus I still have their asset value. Trust me, it’s far better from this side. I wouldn’t even rent a lock-up garage.

[David-Foster-]

Somehow Bob, I knew you were a Landlord. Oh yes it’s far better from your side, lucky you. If all those new "buy to let / homes under the hammer" landlords (not you Bob, you seem to have been doing this for years) hadn’t flooded and inflated the housing market, perhaps we wouldn’t have had the crash we have had and property prices would be reasonable and people wouldn’t have to rent.

[Warren Beard]

just to add my 2p worth

I rent a large house as I need the space as I have 54" printer and laminator and cutters, tables to fit large prints and space to put WIP etc etc, I started in a smaller house and moved to a larger one as I grew and only rent as I could never afford a house this size (or even the smaller one when starting a new business, you would never get a mortgage)

Anyway, my experience was that I sold property to start my business (different circumstances as I immigrated here from SA and sold my property there to start the business here so didn’t get much out, about £10k) Plus another £10k loan for a van etc etc.

I couldn’t afford a printer let alone have any customers to keep it running so just had a 2′ plotter. The £10k I had as cash flow ran out in about 6 months due to start up costs and living expenses and was about to start working nights at the local Tesco’s as money had run out and still wasn’t making enough to cover monthly expenses, the next month business took off and never looked back.

The point of my shortened story is I now have no assets to my name (of any real value), still paying off a 5 year loan and no spare cash in the back.

I have a fairly successful (one man) business to show for it though but doubt it’s worth as much as I would have in my property by now.

Would I have done it different? Maybe, but I would have just done it slightly differently instead of "not at all"

On a side note a word of warning though and this is what makes the 2 types of people out there, there are people who are bosses and those who have bosses. If you are one that could only "have" a boss then if your business fails you could be left with nothing but debt. Start up costs and living expenses will eat away all your savings and cash flow before you start making it back, if you go bust before then you lose out so make sure you are willing to take the risk.

Cheers

Warren

[Lee Mansell]

Thanks guys for your advice…. and the property market lol… Well I got an appointment with my local business advice center for next Thursday, so hopefully they will have stacks of advice and point me in the right direction.

[Stephen Morriss]

Could you not rent the house out, this should pay any mortgage and still give you the security to fall back on if it doesn’t work out.
I know you won’t have the capital to use at the start but your talking about moving into this slowly so buy an older printer for 3-4k, use that to get going and build up your customer base and you still have your wage to pay any loan and rent while your property is paying it’s own way.
Very simplistic I know but we don’t know your full circumstances.

Also don’t sell your product cheap, tempting while it’s a part time thing but it’ll stuff you up later.

Steve

[Colin Aburrow]

Hi Lee,

As mentioned I would try to work from home to start with, very low overheads and I have found that you will be surprised what you can get into a double garage if layed out with a lot of thought. I have managed to pick up a lot of my work due to the fact that because I work from home it gives me major Browne points with customers when it comes to urgent next day jobs that come in late (also able to charge well for this sort of work) although it can cause havoc with your social life. It does take a lot longer than you could ever imagine to get going and I would allow at least 6-9mths of not getting much work in so no wages for that time.

I actually built a large double garage and have attached a largish summerhouse to it. I actually allowed 60k to get started with and this was to build garage & summerhouse buy a printer, laminater and small vinyl cutter and allow 9mths no income. I also had the advantage of my wife still working to bring in some income. (major +) This sort of move can be very scary and I must admit that 6mths in I thought I had made a huge mistake and was already apologizing to my wife for putting us in this situation. She was a big part in my success as she had faith that we would get through all the pain and 6 years later I wouldn’t change anything. I have a great life enjoying my work with a greater quality of life. That said if you do not have the resources or the full backing from your partner it is going to be long struggle.

All the best in whatever you decide.

Colin

[Earl Smith]

My 2 cents as well.
At the moment you are on the property ladder with a mortgage. If you sell your house and become self employed then it will be a long time before any bank will give you a mortgage, even if your business is doing ok.
If you can, do as others have said, stay employed ( or at least one of you stays employed) and start slowly from a garage or front room and when things are starting to look positive rent a small workshop or build a bigger garage.
Earl.

[Bob Clarkson]

There’s some very valid points here, and some very different outlooks.

I’ve never really considered myself lucky, lucky is when something is handed to you on a plate, or you win it. Have to agree though, the whole inflated rents and house prices doesn’t really help anyone in the big picture, people just don’t see it, greed steps in. Things were a lot nicer 20yrs ago buying, renting and working, fair reward for a fair days work.

The situation/set-up Colin has is pretty much exactly what I think, have and do. Totally agree with Stephen and Earl. David and Warren’s are what’s best for them at this time. All I’m saying is, be careful, we can all make mistakes, and I’ve seen a fair few of my customers get it wrong and it’s not pretty.

[Mo Gillis-Coates]

In a word, you need to read "The E Myth" or better known as "Why most small businesses fail, and how to avoid it"….

It talks about the type of people that set up in business for themselves..

1) The technician (this sounds like you, apologies if I’m off track) or the practical person who can produce excellent results and is focused on the product, is fed up in his work and thinks he would be better off working for himself

2) The Manager, the person who runs everything in an orderly fashion and likes to keep everything perfect (he doesn’t care for technical stuff or how it’s produced). He’s sure he could do a better job on his own, but generally stays where he is as he likes to have staff he can organise

3) The entrepreneur, or the bloke who has all the ideas and all the creativity but can’t organise an orgy in a brothel, this person usually excels in sales but couldn’t stick a stamp straight on an envelope let alone layout graphics on a vehicle, but is always convinced he needs to be working on his own stuff as everyone he works for doesn’t appreciate how talented he his.

Basically to run a "Really good" business you either need to be a bit of all three (if you can jump between roles completely) or you need to hire the other two that you aren’t…

That’s a potted version but a riveting read and well worth the £10…..

So Far I got 2 out of three and hired the third, but it’s hard wearing 2 hats and producing enough work to pay the bills too….

[Bob Clarkson]

I run three core business, I run one of my businesses as a technician, one as a hands on manager, and one as an entrepreneur. I have to have some of all three elements in all the things I do, but sometimes if you try and do all tree elements in full you’ll bog yourself down and won’t achieve much at all.

I’m fortunate to have a few very smart friends, and a seriously clued up missus to help pick up the pieces when I have a "slightly off the wall plans" that I am passionate about. I’m certainly not as brave as I was with regards to risk taking because I have responsibilities, but it’s still quite a buzz on occasion.

[Simon.James]

Hi Warren

I had similar sort of story got laid off, sold my Race bike and 2 seater sports, the only thing i had to show for 15 years of working in the print industry, didnt save a penny when i was younger, i struggled for 7 years but now i am lucky to have 2 major companies on board, but it goes dead now and again and cash flow is amajor problem when i do get busy.
my advice to anyone is great having your own sign writing business but it is a tough old business that can be feast one minute and famine the next.

I am doing ok. now cos I do everything to stop me having to work in tesco,s i own 7 vending machines, fit alarm systems cctv door access systems bits of plumbing and anything other work I can get my hands on. sometimes I can go months without making a sign.
I think in today’s current market it is prudent to have more than one business

simon – Cardiff

[Peter Normington]

quote Simon James:

Hi Warren

I had similar sort of story got laid off, sold my Race bike and 2 seater sports, the only thing i had to show for 15 years of working in the print industry, didnt save a penny when i was younger, i struggled for 7 years but now i am lucky to have 2 major companies on board, but it goes dead now and again and cash flow is amajor problem when i do get busy.
my advice to anyone is great having your own sign writing business but it is a tough old business that can be feast one minute and famine the next.

I am doing ok. now cos I do everything to stop me having to work in tesco,s i own 7 vending machines, fit alarm systems cctv door access systems bits of plumbing and anything other work I can get my hands on. sometimes I can go months without making a sign.
I think in today’s current market it is prudent to have more than one business

simon – Cardiff

I make signs everyday, and make a profit, having several sources of income is a good idea, but not everyone has the finance or skills to do that.

if you dont make signs for months on end, why bother?
Peter

[Bob Clarkson]

The life of working for someone, getting paid holidays, being paid even if we weren’t that busy, not having all the responsibility really appealed to me. Trouble is, it’s not in my nature to conform so it would have been impossible for me to work for anyone.

I’m not even that easy to work with, but when I find people who can work with me, we always get on and achieve a great deal as I’ll never push anyone harder than I’ll push myself.

Success isn’t about business and money though, it’s about family and being happy and content.

[David-Foster-]

quote Simon James:

sometimes I can go months without making a sign.

Hi Simon

are you not going back into signs or will that be t-shirts? Thought you had ordered a printer and looking at an engraver and a shop on the high street?