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  • gorilla glue from the states!

    Posted by Robert Lambie on June 18, 2002 at 12:06 am

    hi all
    i was recently reading the latest edition of signcraft. i saw a adhesive called “gorrila glue” i was wondering has anyone tried it? if so is it any good for glueing “signfoam 2” together… if not what adesive do you know that will bond 2 peaces of sign foam??

    also does anyone know a good primer/filler for sign foam?

    i have my own methods for these questions but would like to know if anyone else has a tip for me… 🙄 🙂

    Bob Gilliland replied 21 years, 11 months ago 8 Members · 26 Replies
  • 26 Replies
  • Bob Gilliland

    June 18, 2002 at 1:21 am
    quote :

    i was wondering has anyone tried it? if so is it any good for glueing “signfoam 2” together

    Yes and yes. I do prefer and endorse PB240 made by Coastal Enterprises. Both are adequate and able products for the job. In fact, they bond more then HDU to HDU. There are both very versatile products. Pierre should be able to jump in here with more info and real world experience regarding Coastal’s products. 😉

    quote :

    also does anyone know a good primer/filler for sign foam?

    Again, my preference is Coastal’s FSC-88-WB Primer or FSC-360-WB Crack and Repair Filler. I use a “slurry” method when using the FSC-88 on flat sheet stock if I desire a glass smooth finish. However, if I don’t need that super smooth finish, I paint direct to the HDU after washing it down to remove ALLMOST ALL dust, no primer applied.

    *Caution, this method may not produce acceptable finishing results. Some experimentation should be done before hand to determine personal comfort level.

    Costal Enterprises

  • Pierre

    June 18, 2002 at 2:04 am

    Ok, Bob. Hope the water’s not too deep!
    PB240 is a specific for HDU. It increases it’s own volume 8 to 10 times. Hard clamping is not necessary as it does expand and allowing it to force itself into irregularities is very desirable.
    Bonding HDU to a wood backing also works extremely well and permanently with PB240. You can even sand Dibond and use it for backing as well.
    My son is almost done with his current carving. It involved laminating two pieces of 4″ thick HDU edge to edge, and it is now the strongest point of the entire carving.
    No matter how thick your HDU may be, it’s important that you back it with MDO. PB240 and wood screws will make it permanent.
    If your carving/sandblased project is to be a double sided 4″ affair, it it highly desireable to laminate two separate pieces of 2″ HUD with a center of Plywood or MDO.
    Even our very large, thick murals ALWAYS have a 3/4″ MDO backing.

  • Pierre

    June 18, 2002 at 2:05 am

    By the way………..Tha picture looks like I have Leprosy!
    Or is it age spots??


  • Steve Broughton

    June 18, 2002 at 8:45 am

    Was in the local tool shop yesterday buying a new leccy screwdriver ( I had bust the last one, was up some scaffold last week fitting a sign when I spotted some scumbag trying too lift some stuff out the back of my van so used the only thing I had, boy was this (oh i swore) surprised as 4 pounds of makita tw*ted him in the back of the head 😛 ) anyway I digress spotted some of this gorilla glue stuff, my mate who is a chippie uses it and says its good stuff smells like its made from gorrilla poo though.

  • Robert Lambie

    June 18, 2002 at 8:57 am

    thanks guys.. ill reply better as soon as i get a sec… im on checking mail just now..

    sorry pierre ive noticed a couple of the various new pics done with some pixelation to them… i think they have just been saved with a lower pixel count. ill sort it tonight 😳 😳

  • Andrew Blackett

    June 18, 2002 at 7:16 pm

    hi all,


    well done steve excellent shot mate!!!!!!!! 😉

    and rob,

    have you looked in the europoint price list, they have this webbing tape stuff thats meant to bond euroflute face to face, may work on foam board. Or just try a really good double sided tape. We use this Scotch tape stuff, we stick our memorial plaques onto stakes using it and never had any complaints of plaques falling off!

    If you don’t need to prise them apart afterwards what about a really good contact adhesive???????


    if you’re intending to bond end to end what about fitting a strut piece spanning the gap between the 2 sheets of board and glueing that?


  • Robert Lambie

    June 18, 2002 at 7:38 pm

    ah andy!
    we have our wires crossed mate.
    signfoam2 & foam board a two very differnt products…

    signfoam 2 is high density urathane board.. (my spelling is terrible i know 😳 )

    ill try get some pics of it for the boards. however i will be using it for my short demos coming up shortly!

    watch this space! ….well not here . but in the demo section… argh you know what i mean… go on push off.. 😳 😆

  • Andrew Blackett

    June 18, 2002 at 8:57 pm

    OH the shame of it all!!! 😳 😳 😳 …………………………………….I’ll get me coat!


  • Robert Lambie

    June 18, 2002 at 9:10 pm

    pierre with all this backing does it not make the signs much harder/heavier to work with.
    also if you have a back to back carving what do you sit the back facing board onto to stop it being damaged while you work on the up-side.

    bob i did not realise you worked with signfoam 2. what kind of signs do you make. are they carvings also?

  • Bob Gilliland

    June 18, 2002 at 10:24 pm

    These are being posted so everyone can get a look at some of the things I use to be involved with regarding HDU when I worked at Stoner Graphix. I’ll just post these and let the questions start from there. Everything from hand carve, computer controlled machine router work, sandblasted, two part epoxy “doming”, surface gilding, fiber optics, acrylic sphere’s, etc. A little bit of everything! Enjoy! 😀

  • Bob Gilliland

    June 18, 2002 at 10:25 pm

  • Robert Lambie

    June 18, 2002 at 10:31 pm

    excellent stuff as usual bob… 😀
    ill reply to this when i have a little more time. and after i have a good look at your work.. very impressed.

    im working on graphics just now for the new uksg site and various stuff for the boards…

    nice one mate 😉

  • Phill Fenton

    June 18, 2002 at 10:35 pm

    How do you begin to make signs like these Bob? Do you need a lot of expensive equipment such as a cnc router – or can you start using vinyl masks to hand carve these?

    How are these thing coloured – Is it impregnated into the material or painted on?

    I was asked today to produce some chrome coloured 3d letters about 40mm deep by 300mm high. I declined to quote as this was outwith my area of experience, but is this the sort of thing that would be made the same way as your examples?

    Excuse my ignorance in this field

  • Brian Hays

    June 18, 2002 at 10:38 pm

    And there was me thinking you could by a vinyl cutter & be a sign maker!

    Awesome stuff Bob, kind of expensive looking as well. No wonder my american friend keeps referring to England as the 3rd world. It’s all cheap horrible signs where I am! 😳

  • Robert Lambie

    June 18, 2002 at 10:40 pm

    im sure bob will give you a great explanation phill. however i would think signfoam has been used in alot of these signs… im doing some small demos on it. using only hand tools! i have a router etc but think its better doing the stuff we all can have a go at…
    i found out about signfoam froma website a few years back. i bought some in then it appeared over here… we dont use it every day. but it opens your mind and expands on what you can do with a little emagination.

    more soon…

  • Bob Gilliland

    June 19, 2002 at 1:02 am

    Rob asked what experience I had with Sign Foam earlier in this post. Each one of those jobs contains various amounts or forms of HDU (Sign Foam or Precision Board) in them. So I thought some pictures would “show” what experiences I have had with HDU. 😛


    Expensive equipment is relevant to each ones perspective. I’ve attempted to cover this in a previous post, but being a sign guy and not an author, feel that I have faltered in my attempt to illustrate the point. 🙁 The equipment that you or I use is nothing more then a tool. We determine what “tools” are most appropriate for the work that we chose to do or are assigned to accomplish. The shop that produced this work is known for a higher end, appealing, well executed, dimensional signage. The occasional banner or magnetic sign is produced there but was not the main stay of the business like dimensional work. The equipment that was acquired, over time I will add, was chosen to speed production, improve quality, and allow for greater flexibility within house. These “tools” were not acquired overnight nor chosen without investigation from many perspectives.

    For a shop that does nothing more then vinyl only work, a computerized router bed is probably a very expensive piece of equipment to own and maintain. For a shop that specializes and garners most of their revenue from multi layered dimensional sign work, it’s nothing more then another tool, very much like a squeeze to a vinyl only shop.

    All of these tools or pieces of equipment are great, but none of them will do any bit of good without one key tool. Everyone has access to this tool, some just know how to use it better then others. Simply put, the brain! All equipment, be it a tape measure and squeegee, pen and paper, or router bed and computer do nothing without instruction from “you”, the operator. Here is where I’m still learning every day. I see so many people use this tool far better then I can and it drives me crazy. I look at some of the stuff that’s posted here and on websites of other users and stare in admiration. They have the same tool I have, they just know how to better utilize theirs! And there lies the quest; making that “tool” of mine better day by day in hopes of doing just “some” of the neat things I see others do with their “tool”.

    Ignorance is exactly what I had in early ’96 when I came to this crazy profession. Just like you have done, I asked questions. And then I asked some more. After those questions were answered, I asked more questions. Get the picture yet; I was a pain in butt to many! I will review each job pictured to the best of my recollection. If there are any additional questions or would like something explained a different way or in more detail, speak up. One of the things that attracts me to this industry and makes me want to stay in it is the “Letterhead” spirit. Many folks have helped me along the way and hope that many more will continue to do so. It seams only fair for me to do the same. That is one (of many) reasons I take time to participate not only here on this board, but others like it.

    As for the price on such projects, yes it’s more then a vinyl job. But then again it should be! Not everyone can do this type of stuff and not everyone wants to. There is a perceived value in this line of work and it is priced accordingly; its up to the customer to decide if it’s not within their budget. What I think is expense could be chump change to someone else. I think I stated this on these boards already, but again, it’s about perceptions!

    If three shops offer identical product and services, generally, the lowest price shop will get the job. One way to take yourself out of this equation is by positioning yourself away from, hopefully in a positive light, your “competitors”. Most people have access to the same materials to construct signage, so those items may not help set you apart from others. Superior layouts or extreme customer service will generally put you into a league of your own. Many customers are more then willing to pay for these “extra” features in a vendor. I firmly believe in “like kind” attracts “like kind”. If you desire to get these types of customers, practice the traits of those that already have these types of customers.

    If I may ask to divert your attention off this site for a moment to read a post I made at another board earlier in the year of 2001. Feel free to read the entire post, but what I want to point out is the lower third of my response. That reply was posted to someone who recently started his own shop. I noticed in a few of his earlier posts that he was giving work away or “discounting” to the point of working for free. I wanted to show him how three shops, all within the same city area, were perceived by the “customers”. Again, all in the same city area, but different approaches to the same potential customers. It’s actually posted in Letterville and titled first ideas on modified race car whaddaya think. Hope some understand what I was attempting to do.

    Rob, again I feel the slighted words of “the average shop” coming out. I will go through each one of these jobs in some detail over the next few days. You may be surprised to find out that these projects were produced from a shop that either had two or three employees at the time of fabrication. That’s total employees for the entire company; administration, sales, production, and “give me the broom” janitorial staff and everything in between! Not some large multi-shift, muti-router, multi-edge, “multi-multi” shop. Just two or three guys that got enjoyment out of the work to be done and then worked to have more enjoyment. (Until I “burnt out” and left! But that’s a post for another day)

    So Phill, if you made it this far, thank you. 🙂 But I guess your saying to yourself, “gee Bob, that’s just great, you showed that you can type a word or two, but you didn’t tell me how those signs were made!” Right you are! I’ll explain each one in next few days as time permits. Check back every now and then.

    Thanx All, 😀

  • Robert Lambie

    June 19, 2002 at 1:16 am

    excellent bob!
    i look forword to reading these posts.. thanks for the time taken to explain.. 😛

  • Pierre

    June 19, 2002 at 2:12 am

    Robert, both pieces are done independently and joined when both sides are done.
    BTW…..Good schtuff, Bob.

  • Phill Fenton

    June 19, 2002 at 7:53 am

    Some excellent advice there Bob. I look forward to reading about how these signs were made. 😀

  • Bob Gilliland

    June 19, 2002 at 11:52 am

    Here goes!

    The first job posted is the Bears Den. This is the main interior identification to the entrance of the sports bar located within the Hershey Lodge and Convention Center. The bear itself is constructed from multiple layers of HDU (product like Sign Foam or Precision Board), the hockey stick from wood while clear acrylic is used at the base of the skate and behind the stick. The banner above the bear and the dimensional letters were cut from a smooth skinned expanded PVC plastic foam board (like IntaCell or KomaCell)

    Actually, the customer was originally looking for nothing more then a digital print placed on some type of rigid substrate cut to shape, not thinking “dimension” at all when initially talking with us. A few minutes were spent on “pitching” a carved rendition with embedded fiber optics. Time well spent as the customer liked the idea and cut us lose on the project. As stated in the post above, seek out the work you want to do. Looking at the logo and knowing where it was going to placed, it just screamed to be done in dimension.

    The bear itself is composed of various layers an assorted thickness of HDU pieces. Yes, a router bed was used to cut the general shape of each layer. This step could have been accomplished with nothing more then a jig saw or band saw by placing a pattern cut from a plotter and placed on the HDU as a cutting guide since this item can be considered a very free flowing design with few “true measurement” areas. It did have to reflect the existing logo, but this was the first time it was to be rendered in the third dimension so it was open to much interpretation.

    After all the layers had been cut out, general feature areas were pencil sketched on the faces the glued up to make one piece. From there, it was all grinding, carving, and sanding. I don’t know how to properly explain the carving procedure, something that is much easier to describe in person while performing such actions. Each “layer” helped to establish general “height” points. Although you need to consider the entire project as a whole, set a high point and low point within each layer. Look at the second picture, a close up of the face. The head is actually made up of three “layers”. The body layer, the main “mass” of the head layer that sits directly on top of that, and then the snout and nose layer area, placed on top of the main head layer.

    Looking at the snout/nose layer, we know that the tip of the nose will be the highest point and that the bottom of the layer will be the lowest point (and need to “blend” into the face area). All other features within that layer need to fall between those two points. By establishing key “height” areas (high or low), you can carve to these “heights” without worrying about the entire project in mass. The entire project does need to considered from a “big picture” stand point, but not for every operation along the way. Perhaps Pierre can better explain this since he has much more working knowledge in this area then I do.

    After all the carving and sanding was completed, it was sprayed with a two part automotive urethane primer. A high build primer could have been brushed on, but some of the carved details would have been lost and sanding to a smooth finish would have been a real “bear” (pun intended). Spraying the urethane allowed for much faster production and nicer finish. Paint was nothing more then 1 shot run through an airbrush and painted in such a way to give the illusion or enhance actual “depths” within the carving.

    Fiber optic was epoxyed to the back of the lighted sandblasted and routered clear acrylic to give some “action” of an actual “ice spray” off the skates and motion to the stick. Installation was somewhat interesting as it was being placed on top of a very uneven stone wall. All was completed without to many problems and the customer was very pleased with the outcome.

    The Family Dentistry sign is a double faced, single pieced, sandblasted 2” HDU sign. Again, the router bed was used to cut to shape and to cut the recessed area for the street number. A hand held jig saw or band saw could just as easily cut the shape, no need for a router bed. Since a smooth surface was required for the Black border and copy area, a two-part urethane was sprayed to produce such a result. Then a Black urethane base coat was sprayed. Sandblast mask was applied to both faces; edges were also masked for protection. The sign was then sandblasted to the desired depths.

    When sandblasting, attempts are made to turn the sign so that blasting is uniform and even around all objects. Efforts were also made to allow a very slight “slope” from the sandblast background to the top of an object to promote run off of rain and not allow any pooling on top of the letters. This is very slight and not easily seen unless aware of it before hand. Just another one of those things that separates “you” from “them”.

    After blasting, the background base coat is sprayed. Once sprayed, all masking is removed to reveal a Black and Burgundy sign. At this point, after it is has dried, the Clear coat is sprayed over the entire sign. Gray 1 shot is hand painted on the borders and recessed street number area. Edge printed high performance vinyl (Gold vinyl, printed outline) that is “slightly” undersized is applied to the copy area.

    Posts and finials are nothing more then White PVC pieces that were painted during sign construction. Entire sign was assembled in shop then transported to site. Post holes dug, sign installed and plumbed, job done! Another very happy customer!

    Disclaimer: Since this sign is protected from high winds, small in nature, and sits somewhat low to the ground, one 2” piece of material was used. This is not always recommended or advised since HDU is not structurally sound in this type of application/installation.

    Both signs reviewed above were done when there was a total of three employess.

  • Bob Gilliland

    June 20, 2002 at 8:05 pm

    I’m going to skip the American Legion job for now, it will be the last item to be reviewed.

    Laurel Point is two single faces signs attached to two pieces of imbedded 25mm x 50mm aluminum box tubing. If you look at the close up picture, just under the “DA” in Mountaindale is the left support and the right is in line with the left most Pink flower. The base was designed in house but constructed by the customers company (a builder/developer type setup) Similar to Glenn’s recent post, a cheap, ridged template was provided for the actual sign opening and proper mechanicals furnished for base fabrication.

    The material for the base of the sign is called Armorply. Nothing more then about 13mm worth of plywood that is finished off with thin gauge aluminum laminated to each face. The basic background shape, along with every other component in this sign, was cut by hand using a jigsaw, not a router bed. (No router bed was in house at the time of fabrication.) Background was painted using 1 shot.

    The Black outline around the main copy is 6mm Back acrylic and attached to the background using 100% silicone and VHB tape. Tape is there to hold it into position while the silicone “sets”. Using the silicone in this application allowed for the different expansion and contraction rates of all the dissimilar materials used. On top of the acrylic is HDU cut letters. The letters were painted Black directly on the HDU without priming. The tops of these letters were then covered with a two part epoxy (similar to Coastal Enterprises PB-Resin) to produced a rounded appearance. After drying, a quick coat of 1 shot Chrome Yellow was painted on the dome area only. This was done to “hide” any holidays or other imperfections that would result from the ensuing gild that was to take place. Instacoll acrylic size was used along with 23K German patent Gold leaf for the gild. Again, silicone and VHB to bond the HDU letters to the acrylic outlines.

    The sub copy along with the accent lines were cut from 6mm clear acrylic, domed with the above mentioned epoxy. The accent lines were painted the same 1 shot colour as the base used for the flower. Letters were treated like the main copy; Chrome Yellow, gold size, then leafed.

    The flower was cut from HDU, primed to produce a smooth surface, and then airbrushed with 1 shot paint. No carving or other dimensioning just flat cut out and painted. Again, attached via silicone and VHB.

    Faces are attached to the aluminum struts using VHB only. This is one of many “community” signs produced for this client. I’ll post some additional pictures of others in the future.

    When this sign was fabricated, total company employees: two. Since the contractor was competent and lots of space around the brick base, installation was about 1 man-hour. (30 minutes, two guys) Wish they all could be that quick!!

    Bowling Center sign. This is one of many dimensional signs that ended up being produced on a military installation. (Perhaps I’ll post more pictures at a later time) Like a lot of other customers, the finial product is nothing close to what they first approached us to quote on. Layout was changed to something a little more aesthetically pleasing to the eye and the concept of dimension was sold to them; not the “flat” sign they originally inquired about.

    The bowling ball itself started life as a soft drink POP (point of purchase) display. It was modified for the sign and then painted Black. (not sure what paint, 1 shot or basecoat/clearcoat) The pins are flat and cut from HDU, rolled with hi build primer to get that super smooth surface, the painted to replicate an actual pin. They are attached from the bottom of the pin via the “back” of the ball. Something that was always strived for at that shop was hiding hardware where ever possible. Something that turns my stomach rather easily is seeing a really nice sign, of any construction method, quickly fastened with obvious hardware or methods that don’t always equal the same efforts put into the main sign itself. A real shame in my opinion.

    The “boards” below the ball is nothing more then one cut out piece of HDU with a shallow depth hand held router cut to give define “each” board. A hand held wire brush was pulled “with the grain” to help sell the concept of the wood lanes. Painted without primer to capture more of the graining detail.

    All copy and associated outlines were hand cut with a jig-saw from HDU, primed with a hi build primer for that smooth finish again, then painted. The main copy is screwed to their respected outlines from the backside. The outlines themselves attach to the background via plastic pad/stud mounting. This helps to promote the dimension concept and produces a natural shadow that changes throughout the day.

    The “red/orange” accent line in the design was cut from a piece of colorued acrylic tube. Cut down the middle by hand, then attached to the board behind it. Its appearance has suffered over the years by UV and small “creatures” taking up residency inside the tube and not cleaning up after themselves. I think the overall dimension of this sign is in the vicinity of 1.575 meters x 3.65 meters. This one took a “little” longer then one above.

    I’ll finish up with the Legion job next. That one was somewhat involved and yes, used a router bed to produce. The four reviewed so far could have been done using all hand tools (and most components were) if so inclined. Again, if this is the main stay of the business, it just makes sense to acquire and utilize tools that will make your job easier, more efficient, enhance quality, or combination of these other either unmentioned items. I’ll attempt to throw another perspective along those lines; would you rather buy a can of paint premixed with colour you required or have to mix it like they did a few years ago?

    Enjoy! 😀

  • Martin Pearson

    June 20, 2002 at 11:46 pm

    Great work Bob, I’m still waiting for the day a customer doesn’t want something cheap, realises that his signs are an important part of his business and asks me to do a job like some of those you have posted.

  • Bob Gilliland

    June 21, 2002 at 3:47 pm


    This is for all who care to read more “drabble” from my keyboard, so when everybody sees “you”, it is not specific to Martin. I have no intent for it to appear as a lecture or scolding either. Just offering up some “food for thought” from across the pond. Nothing following is earth shattering or black magic, and most has been said elsewhere by far greater minds then mine, but some time will be spent to put the words in front of you for digestion once again. Maybe, just maybe, something will “click” and this time next year you’ll be swimming in higher end orders or doing the type of work you want to do.

    Did you ever ask for a higher end sale? I don’t know about you’re past experiences, but only on rare occasion did anybody willing ask for something more then what they wanted initially set out to spend without some coxing. It happens, but it is rare. One way to overcome this deficiency is to simply ask. That’s it, nothing more, nothing less. Simply ask, would they be willing to invest additional funds for a better advertising value. I don’t want to ask them if they want to spend more on their sign purchase, I want them to see it as investing in their company, using our experience and expertise to increase their message delivery. Impress upon them the investment aspect, not the expense.

    This “asking”, in my opinion, is just another skill set that needs refined. No different then pulling a line with a brush or laying vinyl efficiently and without bubbles. The more it is practiced at every opportunity, the better one will normally get.

    Where I was previously employed, efforts were made to get the client into our shop for the first meeting. This revealed a few things; first, “they” were taking “their” time to come to our place of business. More of their time was invested to this point then ours. Second, if they didn’t qualify as a customer we wanted to work in partnership with, “we” did lose any additional time once they closed the door upon leaving. And time equals money in this game.

    Perhaps the single biggest advantage to getting them to the shop was allowing them to see “possibilities” they never even thought off before. We didn’t have a formal reception or lobby area, but the walls around our entrance were covered with the various signs we were capably of producing. From the simple to the complex, from mild to wild and everything in between, it was there to be seen. Even before getting into a formal discussion regarding the “signage” they came to discuss, “our” message was bombarding them from all senses. They could not only view them, but also touch and feel, and if they had questions, we had answers.

    Efforts would be made to educate the potential client about the ‘value” of signs while reviewing their project. Where appropriate, while talking about their “sign”, references would be made to samples on the wall. Guess what! Most of the time it was something a little nicer or more involved compared to what they had envisioned. Nothing pushy mind you, just subtle to reinforce what “we” had said to them earlier. A nice side effect of them being at the shop; taking a sketch or artwork deposit via credit card on the spot!

    If an off site meeting is required, small samples are taken in addition to the picture portfolio. Just trying to accomplish the same setting as the “home court” advantage, but only on a smaller scale.

    In either case, on or off site, just a simple suggestion of adding a small this or that can start leading to those higher sales. Starting off small, but doing it often, will soon lead to “bigger” increases, and then bigger, and bigger, etc. Again, just a skill that needs practiced.

    Again, taking the initiative to ask for it will probably yield more results then waiting for it.


  • Martin Pearson

    June 21, 2002 at 10:02 pm

    As usual your right in what you say Bob, I know the value of good signage but dont spend enough time educating my customers. Money is a real issue around here, Fife is an ecconomic black spot. With this in mind I tend to offer the customer something that I know hes not going to argue about price to much on.
    I shouldn’t be doing that as I’m not really giving the customer much variation and who am I to decide the customers budget for signage. I shall have to give some serious thought to what you have said and how I can encourage my customers to invest more of their cash on their signage.
    Cheers Bob.

  • Phill Fenton

    June 21, 2002 at 10:27 pm

    I agree Martin. There’s a lot to be said in selling up our work instead of just taking orders. I often do the same thing and offer the customer an inferior solution when with a bit of effort on my part I should be persuading them to spend more on a better job. I also fall into the trap of assuming the customer is looking for a cheap job and can be suprised when the customer thinks the price is low. I used to ask the customer what his or her budget was – but invariably they do not wish to say. One guy recently told me “I’m not telling you that – you’ll just rip me off”!! ( 🙄 eh!!). I am left with guess work as to what to suggest – often probing questions and showing examples with prices can help to uncover the customers true budget. Maybe it’s just the Scots that are tight – does everyone else have a similar problem?

  • Bob Gilliland

    June 23, 2002 at 1:05 am

    I’m going to be away from the office for a few days, so there won’t be any great length review of the Legion job. I will just simply state that it is multiple layers of different thickness HDU. Some copy is epoxy domed, some flat. Most of the items were cut on a router bed. The background of the top and bottom piece was sandblasted while the “wheat” pieces were hand carved. Everything was coated with urethane basecoat/clearcoat paint. 23kt Gold leaf applied over acrylic size. A little disappointed in the “simple” base design the client picked, as there were some much betters ones presented. This thing was a monster of a job from start to finish, but after it was over, we decided it wasn’t really that big off a deal after all! 😉

    If anybody has any specfic questions, list them below and I’ll attempt to answe them best I can.

    Thanks for the remarks to date. Please remember, these things were produced by a really great shop! Not one single individual did every aspect of the jobs; a “team” of good employees contributed to what is pictured above. Thanks everyone! 🙂


    quote :

    Maybe it’s just the Scots that are tight – does everyone else have a similar problem?

    Plenty of “tight” people around these parts as well. After realizing how much it “cost” to deal with these types of people, not much time was spent on them anymore. Eventually, their quantity dropped at our location

    Phill, I have said it before and I’ll say it again, your tag line is great! I don’t know the history or the original intention behind it, but I love it! Just because someone walks through the door does not mean I have to conduct business with them. If they are “tight”, it’s one bad mark against them potentially becoming a client. Just as they may be “interviewing” me during the initial contact or meeting, I’m “interviewing” them twice as harsh.

    There are plenty of other shops in this area that appear to enjoying working with “tight” people, I just choose not to be one of them. Leaves more time for me to concentrate on the folks that aren’t so “tight”.

    Some may call it arrogance or an ego fest. It may be! But I prefer to look at like confidence and taking control. I do work for my clients, but I don’t work for them; I determine how the business is going to be run, not the other way around.

    Again, not an easy thing to do, but it is achievable. And, in my opinion, it’s something that needs to be “worked” at on a regular basis.


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