feedback with the uniform grenadier

[Robert Lambie]

hi i take delivery of tmy 54inch grenadeir next week. we have simular setup.. we have had a axyz router some time now.. couple of 54″ wide plotters, 65″ laminator and Leister banner welding machine also..
some questions ide like to ask..

quote :

Only one Vehicle Wrap vinyl profile that is Grafityp and it is only for the TROOP rip of which i have had mixed reports from two friends.

do you mean the print quality is poor, how laminate adheres or how the wrap applies/performs?

quote :

Vinyl you are limited to metamark MD5.

are you not only limited to the profiles you have? or are you saying it want perform well on other vinyls?

quote :

So MACTAC, EASYAPPLY, VWS will not run on the Grenadier at this point.

again, i assume you mean because you do not have the profiles?

if you feel very restricted print materials, why buy a second machine?
why not buy on condition you get the profiles you require?
to my knowledge most vinyls have been profiled for the grenadier and at present i have them profiling some oracal 751 for me. they also have other oracal print vinyl profiles.

not sure im 100% on this but richard at raccoon has another company that sells software created for profiles, so lets you do your own.. or you can have them made for you on request. something like that anyway..

[John Cornfield]

We mosty run banner on the machines and the MD5 has been fine for us up to now as we have been working on flat surfaces. We have never been asked for specific vinyl types until recently by a couple of parties interested in Vehicle wrap. Of which we are interested in exploring ourselves.

B&P have always said that the machine can do this and that i am sure it can but you need the profile to run the media. Trust me i spoke with Tom Plunket on this two weeks ago he admitted they have been remiss in producing profiles for medias. Grafityp is the only profiled media for vehicle wrap that B&P have and that is only on TROOP and not on Onyx. No further profiles are available other than those originally developed for the Onyx back in September. I emailed Tom, Dave Burton and Nick Wintle on this.

B&P have got back to me on the following vinyls.

“”Hello John

The tests have been conducted on your various medias and the following are the results thereof:

Vehicle Wrapping vinyl – good print result and is profilable
3M Scotchcal Film Series 40 – satisfactory print result noticed some fish eye in shadow areas of image.
Mactac Imagin JT5529 RM – unsatisfactory print result – pooling/bleed in heavily saturated areas – should a profile be generated for this media the ink limits will be restricted heavily therefore producing a very washed out print.
Mactac Imagin JT5829 RM – good print result and is profilable.
Please let me know which medias you require a profile for and at which resolution.

Many thanks & regards

Grant” copy of reply from B&P

They are looking at it now and so profiles will be forthcoming bit B&P can drag their feet and I will be keeping at them. Problem is that the grenadier is a good machine, and i recommend it, B&P don’t have enough guys to modify and install the machines. The colour specialist has been on installs and not profiles.Some independent profiling may have been done by others but B&P offer limited profiles. Like i said there are more on TROOP but it is a trade off i have had TROOP descirbed as a bag of sh** by one good friend.

quote :

again, i assume you mean because you do not have the profiles?

Neither do B&P!

I am waiting to get Avery samples to them.

quote :

to my knowledge most vinyls have been profiled for the grenadier and at present i have them profiling some oracal 751 for me. they also have other oracal print vinyl profiles.

Definitely not for the Onyx rip maybe for Troop but they had nothing more to give me on the 23/6.

I would get a clarification from them as to the exact profiles within Troop if you are taking this option.

quote :

not sure im 100% on this but richard at raccoon has another company that sells software created for profiles, so lets you do your own.. or you can have them made for you on request. something like that anyway

I am not a tech head to do my own i only need the ones i use. Till now we have not had a problem as everything has been fine machine works well, slight tinges /blochy on solid blue moreso down to media i think, but not a great concern.

As i say it wass only when we looked at the vehicle wrap options for us when we hit the problem this is only just over a month ago. As you know we have IT, ADS, Express amongst others who all have solvent printers and have been printing vehicle wrap for a good while. (sorry for being so peroquial)

quote :

if you feel very restricted print materials, why buy a second machine?

Like i said we picked up a banner contract some of them are 1.5m wide 54″ is too small.

I have only been printing stuff that makes me money which is mostly exhibition display than signage. Vehicle wrap a taxi full two guys 4 – 6hours and thay have to be good at it approx charge £1200 – £1600 including material cost. No Thanks we do a popup display 1 guy in finishing 3 hours £1200 thank you for me material costs are about the same as vws as I build my own popup frame.

Vehicle livery £150 – £200 install 1 guy 2 hours plus cutting. Rollup Banner £250 20min print 20 min finishing in April and May combined we ran more than 100 Rollup Banners for two clients one being Microsoft.

I am happy to print and supply the wrap to installers Taxi would be approx £250 of print only, Nice! Why have the hassle of installation. I can see out and out signage houses being extremely interested on both print and install.

Don’t get me wrong we still do vehicle livery, cnc lettering, banners etc. Its just that we find more profit for less work on exhibition/display.

[Rodney Gold]

Hiya , You tried any other rips? You can run colorip on your machines (wasatch) and you can most likely get it free , I assume your machines are the equivalent of the SC 540 Pro II and the SJ740 pro II?
There are a lot of profiles for various materials and using a generic and tweaking it is relatively easy
Colorip ships with roland ,so all you need to do is find someone with a versacam etc who has a colorip disc and copy it (It only runs specific machines but will have come with the machine when bought by B&P or would have come had you bought from roland)
Its likely that due to you using solvents , the profiles might not be 100% but mostly your problems will be with ink loading and total inks at black cut off
The help files are pretty good and you can find your way from there.
Have you tried printing 1mm abs and styrenes on your machines?

[John Cornfield]

Cheers for the reply.

The machine can print certain conformable media and B&P will eventually have pofiles. This is not a big issue for me as for it only affects two potential customers that are probably just price checking anyway.

I just wanted everyone to be aware that it doesn’t do what it say’s on the tin…Yet. I can only offer my experiences when using the Onyx Production House.

Onyx is a great rip and you get what you pay for as it is not cheap. We only use to about half its capability because thats all you need. For those techy types you can tweek and play with the settings till heart is content.

Again you need to clarify with B&P the exact profiles available via their Troop rip.

I believe profiling isn’t overly complicated you just need the correct denistometer and software and as far as i am aware Onyx has it built in.

Cheers

JC

[Ian Hatfield]

I bought a Zund and a Grenadier for my previous company from B&P and Onyx to run Both in November. Onyx is fine for the Zund but the drivers for the Grenadier are very poor, result I borrowed Wasatch from B&P on a tempory basis and they are still using it today as Onyx have not come up with an improved driver. Onyx in my opinion is one of the best RIPs, but no good at the moment for the Grenadier.

Ian