feedback: Sublimation setup

[John Wilson]

Sounds interesting…. keep up updated and good luck

[Nicola McIntosh]

good luck john, hope it goes well 😉

nik

[Neil Speirs]

"He who dare’s Rodney" 😉

[John Thomson]

Well………….I was told my goods would be ready today so intended emailing to check but don’t need to as an email was sitting in my inbox telling me that everything is ready for dispatch and the freight company will collect them this afternoon.
I have requested a tracking number and a copy invoice to be included in the package to confirm the value for UK customs.

So far so good 😀

[Robert Lambie]

thanks for the update john, sounds promising… ive always been dubious about dealing with companies so far away but this puts a little bit of confidence back in me…

[Steve Underhill]

I actually looked at the Joys stand at sign uk and the presses, although looking quite cheaply made compared to the big boys seemes to perform just fine and had a 2 year warranty on the platen so that was even better than the one year on most presses.Im thinking of getting one of the 80cm ones for doing jeans & stuff for my plastisol transfers.
Also can do Bar runners in that with the dye sub setup.

[John Thomson]

The manufacturers warranty is 3 years on the heat presses.

I received another email……the shipping agent will collect today and deliver to Hong Kong airport by road but will not catch tomorrows flight and the next one to Glasgow is Wednesday.

The final crate weight is 103 kg (the shipping cost was calculated on 100kg) so they have asked if the aircraft company charge extra would I be able to forward this to them which if fair enough.

[Steve Underhill]

3 years eh
thats good
worth looking at for sure

[Neil Speirs]

What about the shipping costs if you were to make a RTB warranty claim….ouch

[Steve Underhill]

the joys ones have UK distributors.

[John Thomson]

Warranty was something I took into the equation…….hence the spare heater element for the mug press.
At least the long warranty suggests that they have a bit of confidence in their products………..

[Neil Speirs]

quote John Thomson:

At least the long warranty suggests that they have a bit of confidence in their products………..

Very true, didn’t look at it that way.

[John Thomson]

I should have said……..this is who I am dealing with

http://www.szmicrotec.com/english/index.asp
http://www.continuousink.net/

Same company………two websites. They are an Alibbaba.com gold supplier.

John

[John Thomson]

a quick update on this

My crate left Hong Kong airport yesterday and should clear customs in Glasgow airport on Monday or Tuesday………..the actual weight of the crate was 114KG and I had paid for just under 100KG….so got an invoice for the extra 14KG today….$66……….interestingly the email appologised and hoped I would understand and be able to paypal the money ( which I have done) …..very polite and respectful which considering that the crate left them last Friday is a refreshing change from UK companies who hold you to ransome until full payment is made.

Mods please feel free to move this thread to an open forum if you feel that it is appropriate.

John

[David Rowland]

ah so we have progress, i just read this set of posts for the first time.

The unit was of value at Fespa when I had a demo, there was a good number on the stand but no-one could speak english correctly so it was a lot of nods and shakes and pointing. I thought the timer was a bit crude but the metal build quality looked fine, I couldn’t comment on the plattern as they were all new and as I don’t use one I have no idea if it is decent or not.

there was a lot of people showing off their far-eastern products, i think a few were at sign uk but i certainly saw the laser cutter while i was there. The quality was good but the build quality was possibly ‘acceptable’.

With regards Warranty, well I don’t really believe in warranties unless you manage to convince people on the phone that you ‘really’ do have a serious problem. However if i recall there is a commodity code for broken items so you can send things back, but mainly at your own expense, again there is the return leg to think about too.

My advise is to photograph the case when it gets delivered, then photograph it while you are opening it so you have some comeback with the company. If not you can name and shame them

[Paul S Martin]

Hi John

Sounds good M8

Paul

[Andrew Bennett]

I look forward to reading your comments once you take possession.

[John Thomson]

Just a quick update.

The packages arrived at Fed Ex in Glasgow on Monday……bu they didn’t bother to call me to tell me 🙄

Then comes Customs clearance……….should be simple? No not really. There is no commercial Customs dept in Glasgow, it is all handled from the central hub in Manchester………..and wait for it……they will not deal with a member of the public 😮 So I have to appoint an ‘agent’ who will handle the paperwork for me, I also pay the import tax and vat to them……….charge for this is £85 which is just over half what it would have cost from Fed Ex if they had been delivering to my door rather than me collect from the airport.

The boxes should, if all the paperwork is in order, be available for collection tomorrow

[Andrew Bennett]

the red tapeness of it all sounds like the start of a nightmare, could you have done the paperwork yourself?

[John Thomson]

quote Andrew Bennett:

the red tapeness of it all sounds like the start of a nightmare, could you have done the paperwork yourself?

The customs in Manchester will only deal with commercial ‘agents’ this seems to be because they are licensed agents and therefore when they pay the import duty to customs there is no chance that a payment will not clear……….the agent takes the risk when dealing with the public.

To be fair the agent seems to be on top of it. If I had known this beforehand I would have known about the extra cost and small delay.

john

[John Thomson]

Just had a call from the agent………everything is clear for me to collect my packages, it took him under 4 hours to get everything sorted.

The total import duty, VAT and agent fees comes to £235.41 ( believe it or not you pay duty and vat on the shipping charge as well 😮 )

Quite pain free after the agent got involved 😀

John

[Neil Speirs]

Glad to hear it’s been pretty much pain free so far 😀

[John Thomson]

Picked everything up……..nothing missing and nothing broken ( even the mugs!)and it all looks good so far.

I’ll post some photos later with a break down of the customs duty and charges

😀 😀 😀

John

[John Thomson]

Here are some photos now that everything is unpacked.

The only thing wrong is the shape of plug top on the power leads but it is a standard PC lead and I have spares here anyway.

Final costs were

goods & shipping £705.01 ($1392)
import duty £7.24

Agents fee includes
customs clearance £35.00
airline handling £30.00
DTi fee £10.00
use of agents bond £5.00
collection from airport £10.00

import duty £7.24
VAT £145.41

Total excluding VAT £809.45 which I think was well worth the bit of work it took
😀

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[John Childs]

quote John Thomson:

believe it or not you pay duty and vat on the shipping charge as well

I believe it. It was the same when I brought some bikes in from the US. We were also charged duty and VAT on the insurance charge.

Appointing an agent makes sense. Have you seen the wodge of paperwork? An agent is familiar with the system and can do it quickly and painlessly, but the likes of you and I would take ages and have endless frustration. Money well spent. 😀

[Calvin.Turner]

I’ll be very interested indeed to see how you get on with it, I hope it works out for you.
I wonder who else actually turned their mouse over ! My £50 logitech is made in the same place !
I suppose really though its like anything, every country must surely have its good and bad manufacturers of almost everything, but it does seem a lot of junk comes from china/taiwan and such.
Please be sure to keep updating !

[John Thomson]

John you are right appointing an agent was the right thing to do but as this was my first time importing I was winging it!

Eggplant……….I did a lot of research into various manufacturers before I settled on this one and yes you are correct that in any country there are good and bad manufacturers. Even the US and European manufacturers use Chinese parts.

I went into this with my eyes wide open well aware that it could have been an expensive mistake but I have to say that the Chinese company I delt with could not have been more helpful……….I will probably have to get a profile written for the ink although the manufacturer was puzzled when I asked about a profile……….but the printer you are going to use is an Epson and the ink will work in it was their response……..I hope they are right!

I have not pressed or printed anything yet but have to say that I am more than happy with the kit I have bought and will probably import again.

john

[Calvin.Turner]

The profile is a concern, that said the one supplied with my "licensed ink" with my 1800 ciss/ink was absolutely naf, the reds were terrible. I spoke to them several times and basically got fobbed off. I paid a company to create a profile for me, I send them some pressed items and the profile I received fixed the reds, but then the cyans were off. They said they could probably fix it but it would involve lots of comings and goings in the post, I was going to go down this route but I managed to aquire a profile thats decent. A very slight colour shift sometimes occurs on certain solid reds but I’ve got it sussed and if need be I can alter the hue in photoshop to offset.

[Andrew Bennett]

This has been a very thought provoking thread and I for one would like to thank John for the posts.
John, I do wonder how much you have saved by taking this route as I am sure you priced it all up before the start. Could you possibly give us an idea please?

[John Thomson]

Thanks Andrew

The presses were approx half price (inc shipping) as were the spare parts.
saving £260
96 mugs saved £72
200 mouse mats saved £100
heat tape saved £100
sub ink saved £2040!!!!!!!!!!! 😮 😮 compared to Sawgrass prices plus got the ciss system

Total saved excluding ink was £532 or 65%

including the ink it is £2572 or 318%

plus I enjoyed doing it 😀

[Lorraine Clinch]

Hi John

Brilliant post, thank you, really interesting, as you know there were a few of us interested in dye-sub at SignUK this year. I haven’t had chance yet to do anything about it, so watching your post with great interest.

Just a word of warning, though….I have an ink set-up (with normal inks) in my Epson, obviously same manufacturer-see photo-and it has been brilliant, up until the first refill. Now it leaks terribly, as you can probably see. However, the kit is still brilliant, (and doesn’t seem to affect printing). I am going to order another 2 sets soon, as for what it has saved me in ink cartridge costs it is worth having to replace annually or so.

Regards
Lorraine

Oops-can’t upload photo here, but defo same system.

[John Childs]

Is that right John – only 1% import duty?

I had to pay 8% on bikes. That’s a lot of money on a container full of GoldWings. 🙁

[John Thomson]

John I have to say I was expecting more but that is what was on the paperwork and needless to say I was not going to question it 😉

[John & Dawn Roddick]

I’m pretty sure the rate of import duty depends on the which category the goods fall into – Customs have a pretty concise list.

Dawn

[David Rowland]

nice learning curve… and it looks like the machine i saw 😮 :lol1:

[Andrew Boyle]

excellent post John……the learning curve is worth a lot in itself i would imagine…… hopefully will see the results soon 😀

[John Thomson]

OK the heatpress is working great so I finally unpacked the printer.

After installing the Constant Ink Supply System (CISS) the printer software was showing the ink carts as empty……….pressing the re-set button clearly wasn’t resetting the ink level 😕 . After quite a few emails to China, all promptly replied to, I traced the problem to the little plastic pins that hold the ‘chip’ on the end of the ink carts……..it was protruding by about 1mm which stopped the chip contacting the printer…..so a quick slice with a scalpel and that problem was solved.

Next problem was unbelievable banding when printing. I tried head clean and head alignment but traced it to the setting in the printer software that by default prints in ‘hi speed’ mode…….with hi speed off it prints as it should with no banding…………the prints look ‘washed out’ but this was the same as I saw at Sign UK with the demos.

So next up is my first dye sub heat transfer………just going to look for suggested heat and transfer times to help get me started 😀

[Steve Underhill]

190 degrees for 50 seconds on pretty much everything John.
If its mugs the same temp for 3 minutes, but you may have to go through a few mugs to find your optimum dwell times for your press.
Sublimation dark transfer paper 35 seconds at 185 degrees.

Also download The SSC utility for epson printers, as your ink carts will show as running out from time to time, there’s a better head cleaning program in there and also gives you the option to clean either the colour head, the black head, or all together on a normal or powerful clean if they are badly blocked, also you don’t have to worry about the waste ink pad in the printer giving you a service error message as you can reset the counter.

[Neil Speirs]

Your Ben Lomond picture would be great as a full wrap mug.

[John Thomson]

Thanks for the advice Steve, much appreciated…………the SSC does not cover the R285 yet 😥

Neil one of the main reasons for the sumbli setup is the ready made market at the dog school……….and yes the summit pic will be a mug wrap and also a mouse mat :lol1:

John

[Steve Underhill]

Ah didnt realise.
well they should update it in a matter of course I imagine, its indispensable really.

[Marcella Ross]

Just done a mug ………….. successfully! 😀 Will post a pic in the morning.

[Neil Speirs]

:dance1: :thumbup2: :2thumbs: :yeeha: :appl: :clap3: :breakdance: :funky: :dance4: :clap2: :funky2: :pink: :thumbsup:

[Phill Fenton]

Well done Marcella and John :clap3:

I know how exciting it is when something finally works the first time, I look forward to seeing the result 😀

[Harry Cleary]

Well done folks 😀

[John Thomson]

Here is a pic of a full wrap mug and mouse mat………I really don’t think that profiles are going to be needed!!!!!!!!!!……..I have to say that I am delighted with the results and fully expected it to take a LOT of messing about to get to this stage……this was the third mug and the third mouse mat………..just messed with dwell times………thanks for the pointers Steve 😀

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[Steve Underhill]

Nice work John, looks good.
Especially so if youre not using profiles, you usually get really washed out colour but they look great.

[Chris Wool]

well done must be a min order of 20 mugs there

chris

just thought long walk for 20 mugs 😀

[Paul S Martin]

Hi John

I see you have made a start on the mugs & Mouse Mats these look Great and the finish on the mugs is very clear and all the way up to the top of the rim did all the mugs finish as well.

Can you tell me what price you paid on these items looks like it’s a much better way to go than to buy over here.

1 X 15"X 15" Swing away 2000w press
1 X Full wrap mug press
1 X Teflon sheets
1 X Silicon pads
1X Spare mug heater element
36 x Mugs or Each

Also I see that the handle has changed on your mug press from what is listed on the site (mp-70d) dose it still seem a good machine to work with and built to last ??

Thanks for all your help
Paul 😀

[Nicola McIntosh]

they look brilliant, well done you two 😀

nik

[John Childs]

Nice work. I’m impressed. 😀

[Lynn Normington]

they look very impressive you must feel a certain amount of satisfaction 😀 what are Marcellas draws going to say on saturday cause a tee shirt will be no use 🙄 as it starts at midnite you will probably need fluorescent or reflective 😀

Lynn

[John Thomson]

quote Paul S Martin:

Also I see that the handle has changed on your mug press from what is listed on the site (mp-70d) dose it still seem a good machine to work with and built to last ??

Paul, yes the handle on my mug press is different to the one on the website…..
I would say that what I received is well made and built to last…….The Chinese use cheap standard electrical parts which if they fail can easily be sourced and replaced…….I am delighted with the finish and performance of my machines so far.

Steve …..thanks for the heat/time advice……….mouse mats seem best at 190 degrees for 45 seconds……..same for coasters…….mugs seem best at 200 degrees for 3 minutes.
So far I am using NO colour correction of any kind but will now start to mess with some settings although the prints I have now are perfectly ‘sellable’.
Lynn…….you are right there is a bit of satisfaction with this……the ‘established’ players advise you against doing your own thing to protect their market and their margins.

Here is a photo of a mug, mat and coasters that I printed of my dads dog Tanya……….I think the colours/finish are pretty good?

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[Steve Underhill]

Do you mean you tried for 50 seconds and you find that 5 less is better?
usually you will have 5 seconds less colour saturation, it is also possible that the press is over heated, laser temp gauge would tell for sure.
cheers
steve

[John Thomson]

Yes Steve……45 seconds looks ‘richer’ than 50.too much heat? the readout is set to 190 degrees.

john

[Mark Jahn]

Hi John. I’m new to the forum (hi everyone as well!) but followed your thread avidly over the weeks with great interest. I’ve been in the position where colours caused me no end of problems. The only thing I would suggest from personal experience is that before tweaking/changing your settings in your software and/or print properties try to keep a note of what settings you currently have. With so many variables it can be easy to change something then find the colours come out terrible. I did a few screen grabs of my Photoshop colour settings, profile settings and Epson ICM settings as a back up. Saved me a lot of bother!

Well done for producing some great sub prints with the settings you currently have though.

[Hugh Potter]

i use my laser temp guage on the press all the time, it take a good while to reach the proper temp!

John, why do mouse mats take 45 seconds? using the magic touch laser stuff it’s only 15 seconds!

Hugh

[John Thomson]

Hugh,
I am using an inkjet setup……….Staffies I have been noting setting as I go along, however colours have not really been a problem..just getting the dwell times etc. sorted. These settings are what I would have expected a ‘normal’ supplier to have advised on….I am just taking advice from where I can and working things out for myself.

I have been messing around mainly with the mugs……..best so far is selecting Epson Matte paper ( photo paper setting results in fine banding :-?), best quality photo print setting with photo enhance checked…. 204 Celcius ( 400 f) for 3 minutes. I am having to tape a thin piecce of paper over the bottom edge of muy print to stop ‘blowout’…I think the mugs are slightly off true but the edge of paper seems to stop it because I now know that it is not a cold spot

I got a ir thermometer ………the mug press is pretty close to the digital display but the heat press is out by about 20 degrees C (too hot)although it is pretty consistent across the platten 😀

Here is our ‘promotional’ mug printed with the above settings…….I think the solid colour is a far better test than a photo as any flaws are very apparent.

I also started messing with my Chinese self cutting transfer paper……

John

[Paul Humble]

You seem to be getting the hang of Subli far faster than I am John. I think by doing it the way you have you have inadvertantly had a head start. Ive found Xpres’s times to be far from ideal, for example they quote 4.5 minutes at 200 degrees for mugs which I think is way too much. By doing it the way you have you arent pre brainwashed into following a set of guidelines.

The stuff you are doing looks great, I love the promotional mug. I found a supplier the other day who did 36 11oz mugs for 19.99 including VAT, I didnt save the site to my favourites though!!!!!

I think ill spend a few hours trying to find it again.

[John Thomson]

Paul at anything over 3 minutes ( 204 Celsius) the colours start to fade on my mugs…………..I wasted plenty trying to find the ideal………it was 3 minutes as Steve said but for me a slightly higher temp at 204.
when paying a premium as you have I would expect to have had some useful guidance from your supplier.

Can you not trace the mug site through your history?

john

[Paul Humble]

John,

I cant reply to PMs, PM me your email addy and ill contact you.

Cheers

[John Thomson]

quote Paul Humble:

You seem to be getting the hang of Subli far faster than I am John. I think by doing it the way you have you have inadvertantly had a head start. Ive found Xpres’s times to be far from ideal, for example they quote 4.5 minutes at 200 degrees for mugs which I think is way too much. By doing it the way you have you arent pre brainwashed into following a set of guidelines.

Interesting point of view Paul…….opposite sides of the same fence? I assumed that having set instructions would have been a huge help…….perhaps not?

John

[Neil Speirs]

quote Paul Humble:

I found a supplier the other day who did 36 11oz mugs for 19.99 including VAT, I didnt save the site to my favourites though!!!!!

At that price I would avoid them, ask the supplier for a sample first or it could be a waste of 20 quid-

[Neil Speirs]

forgot to say John, nice work, your stuff looks good :thumbsup:

what camera are you using?

[John Thomson]

quote Neil Speirs:

quote Paul Humble:

I found a supplier the other day who did 36 11oz mugs for 19.99 including VAT, I didnt save the site to my favourites though!!!!!

At that price I would avoid them, ask the supplier for a sample first or it could be a waste of 20 quid-

or it could be the mugs that I got with a healthy margin on them? mine were $.50 each plus shipping.
almost everything is now coming from China…………

john

[John Thomson]

quote Neil Speirs:

forgot to say John, nice work, your stuff looks good :thumbsup:

what camera are you using?

Nikon D40x

john

[Martin Pearson]

Very interesting read John, thanks for sharing with us all and keeping everyone updated on your progress.

[Gareth.Lewis]

I’ve just been reading this thread (and others in the subli forum) with great interest. Thanks to all involved.

Would somebody be so kind as to tell me if there are any issues regarding fumes when doing sublimation printing?

Gareth

[Neil Speirs]

Been cough doing it cough for 5 cough years now, nothing I’m aware wheeez of cough 😉

[Gareth.Lewis]

Thanks Neil.

It’s just that if (IF) I were to go down this road, I would be doing so from the home. This is where my dearest darling wife, dearest darling son, three cats and a dog roam most days. I could make the heat issue safe but not sure about the (possible) invisible fumes.

I wouldn’t want to poison them.

(or would I….)

[John Thomson]

I have to say that mouse mats always stink a bit !!!! No smell from coasters…

First couple of times I used the mug press there was a faint smell……….but that quickly vanished…….I think it was simply ‘newness’.

John

[Andrew Bennett]

quote John Thomson:

I also started messing with my Chinese self cutting transfer paper……

John

Pardon me for bumping this but I am interested in this self cutting transfer paper John, would it be possible for you or anyone else using it to explain a bit more please? thanks in advance.

[John Thomson]

Andrew,
the self weeding transfer paper is just that…….an A4 sheet, dye sub or pigment ink print onto the coated side ( in reverse), press at 165 degrees for 10 seconds with medium pressure……..after a few seconds you hot peel………only the printed section remains on the shirt.

Good points……

Great colours
you can print shapes other than rectangles

Bad points……

takes a little practice to get the peel timing just right
takes a little practice to get press pressure just right
Better suited to solid colours not fades
Not good on ‘stretchy’ materials as it cracks when pulled
material needs to be 100% dry as does the transfer paper

But if you accept it has limitations it is pretty good.

John

[Andrew Bennett]

Cheers John.

[James Bell]

Hey

We’re thinking about offering mugs and things as an extra service.

Would it be quicker/cheaper to just buy a starter kit from somewhere like Nova Chrome, or buy the kit from a certain online auction website?

I had a look, and there’s a few people selling what looks like good kit

Thank you

[John Thomson]

James…………do a lot of research……then make you decision…

john

[Steve Underhill]

Buy a DF-10 or equivalent mug press From Martin (BMS) they are cheap, reliable and give very good results, the only problem mine has ever had was the heat blanket creased slightly so I use a silicon insert now and al good again.
I have printed hundreds of mugs with it and its paid for itself time over.
You can get the ink and feed systems along with printers all cheaper if yo buy them seperately.

[Chris Whitehead]

Fantastic thread!

Been great reading all when I’ve had chance, and seeing the finished products!

Its inspiring! I really fancy giving this a go now…