EN 1090 & Technical Construction Files – Advice please.

[Phill Fenton]

Interesting question – I must admit I was not aware of this and I would be interested to know how it affects us sign makers.

[David Hammond]

Perhaps we should all cough up and join the BSGA and then we can be part of the club that knows. :lol1:

99% of our customer’s don’t give two hoot’s about the BS559 regs, and we usually loose the jobs to the cheapest bidder…

After explaining it to a customer, they simply didn’t care less, ‘what’s the chances of that happening to me?’

[Martin Pearson]

Stuart, who has told you this as Like Phill it is not something I have been made aware of either.

[Kevin Flowers]

This might shed some light but end up confusing everyone some more

http://www.bsga.co.uk/wp-content/upload … 100714.pdf

Kev

[Martin Pearson]

Well that makes a lot of sense doesn’t it, how can anyone think it is logical for a sign to have to meet the same requirements as an external staircase ??

[Phill Fenton]

Some more facts here:-
http://www.bsigroup.com/Documents/produ … N-1090.pdf

It is obvious that any sign company that had CE accreditation would have an enormous competitive advantage if it is decreed that all signage should meet this standard.

My own thoughts are that the BSGA should be presenting a case to argue against this standard being applied to signage given that signs do not form a structural part of any building and in most cases they are "one off" products. In addition signage is a "traditional craft component" .
All strong arguments for exemption

[Martin Pearson]

Phill you could also make a case for them being temporary or fittings rather than components or fixtures which would also exclude them. I am all for having suitable safety standards but this just looks to me like the BSGA trying to get rid of all the small sign companies.

[Stuart Miller]

Yes it was the BSGA document that was brought to my attention and a discussion at the sign show.
If these things are becoming law then we should be aware and talk logically about what types of signs are covered and what are not.
Just diissing the BSGA is not really constructive if they are just the messenger and we are liable.

I asked one manufacturer about this and if there sign supplies conformed to the CE code and they were pretty sure that the items they supplied were excluded from this.

The reply included the following statement

quote :

We spent a bit of time a year or so ago, looking into EN1090, as it was a hot topic with all our steel suppliers.

EN 1090 covers the manufacture and erecting of Structural Steelwork, (buildings, bridges, stairs, platforms etc.) and we came to the conclusion, (and were advised), that, all our products & activities were outside its scope.

Since then there has been a further clarification from the European Committee for Standardisation, and the following was sent on 7/7/2014:-

List of items not covered by EN 1090-:2009+A1:2011
The following list is a consolidated and non-exhaustive list of items not covered by EN 1090:2009+A1:2011. It is limited to the items on which there is consensus. This list does not reflect a formal CEN or CEN/TC 135 position, because an appropriate consultation of the CEN members in CEN/TC 135 was not guaranteed.

It is a long list which included:-

• Hangers and brackets for masonry
• Metal anchors for use in concrete
• Metal anchors for use in masonry
• Sculptures (Metal Art)
• Self-drilling and Self-tapping screws
• Structural metal faced sandwich panels
• Traditional craft type and non-structural components (e.g. blacksmith making weather cocks, letter boxes, bicycle racks, fences)

So are sign brackets and Projecting sign excluded or not?

[Kevin Flowers]

Quote "Just diissing the BSGA is not really constructive if they are just the messenger and we are liable."

Stuart
there is past history may be before your time here of the the BGSA supposedly speaking for the small signmaker (CSCS Card) when they never even consulted the small signmakers, so hence the instant bad feeling

Kev

[Stuart Miller]

OK lets forget the BSGA apart from the fact they have drawn attention to this.
Past history is not my concern.
I think Phil’s point that that the BSGA should be fighting a case not to have this sort of signage included is a good one.
Ot at least give signmakers clear instructions as to what sort of signage is included.

From the reply from the manufacturer it seems many types of signage is excluded if it is classed as `Hangers & Brackets for Masonry" or "Traditional craft type and non-structural components (e.g. blacksmith making weather cocks, letter boxes, bicycle racks, fences)"

But we do not seem to have clear advice yet.

Surely however one gets the news it is important to find out
a) if its true
b) how it might affect you
c) What we need to provide.

Do others on here provide a Technical Construction File for all their signs?

Martin, It is obvious that stairs and signs do not have the same strength requirements but that does not mean they do not have to still conform to similar procedures of rating that strength and providing documentation.

David, I agree that 99% of customers don’t give a dam and price is all they are concerned about but that attitude does not help the sign maker (or the customer for that matter) if he has fallen foul of the law. Ignorance of the law is no excuse so we need to know actually where we stand.

As for joining the BSGA to find out more. There must already be many members who read these forums who could comment. (Rob for instance?)

I think most would like to think that they over engineer their signs so they don’t fall down but should I be doing engineering type calculations for every projecting sign I put up and what sort of calculations should I be doing?

If I buy a projecting bracket on line, the anchor bolts from a hardware shop and fix it to brickwork. Do I really know how strong it is and what wind it can stand up to?