Don’t you just love employees!

[asr signs]

i have the same problem with staff almost feels like you are held to ransom have almost considered just sacking them with grounds which i deem as reasonable paying them up to the end of the month and just hoping that they are not intelligent enough to pursue (sleepy heads tend to be that way inclined)

[Alan Drury]

Not that I have any staff – arn’t you allowed to shoot them, I’ll have to rethink the business expansion plan.
Alan

[Nicola McIntosh]

i do sympathise with you chris 😛

i had nine staff at one point……never again 😮 by the sounds of it, they seem to be getting worse 👿 what happened to pride? and respect for your employers… 😕 i wonder what it will be like in ten years time 🙄 the thought just makes me shudder :yikes:

nik

[Johnny Taylor]

We have all the same problems, you hit the nail on the head Nik, no pride and respect. Just turned 8am here and no staff as of yet. It got down to -4 overnight so there is bound to be an excuse or two about the cold. Oh what fun to be an employer.
Johnny

[Robert Lambie]

we had about 17 at one point, wound it back because we realized one half was carrying the other. more staff doesn’t always mean more work getting done. the lazy ones realise the hard ones cover their tracks and play on it. we dropped 4 in one go then 2… the quarter after that showed huge increases in work being done and sales were up substantially as a result.
if you have staff keep a paper trail of anything and everything.
if they are 5 minutes late, fine… ask them to fill in a late slip and put it in their file.
Late slips just confirm the person was late. they sign it and also write down WHY they were late. as time goes on you will have a pattern forming in either the days they are late, or the excuses given. here you have the choice for written warning, again they complete that and sign.
tools going missing when out on a job, either dock them a percentage for the value of tool, or if it does look an accident, complete a loss form…
same applies, they write down excuse for loosing the tool, when and where… then sign… after time you see lost list of tools forming under that persons name… they sign each time so cannot argue when you give written warning or whatever…
accidents around work place too, by law you should keep accident reports, we have had folk that ALWAYS have accidents. silly things to serious. when it comes to serious things you have a backlog to cover yourself that the person is very negligent when working. people these days can be dismissed on the grounds of being a liability to themselves and others.
there are lots of day to day things you should keep record of for staff.
you may think this is too much, but i don’t… government law is ALL for the employee, not the employer. we should take every step possible to protect ourselves. introduce this sorta thing in the work place, save your breath arguing with them… they walk in late… you say, “just go into office and complete a slip mate” by the time you are sick of it, you are armed to the teeth and in the position to to call the shots.

[Deleted User]

We are in drought stricken, nearly outback, Australia. Not many employment options.

When we started we spotted a few likely candidates for employment. When the time was right we employed two of them.

Never Again.

As the owners of the company, my wife and I have never taken a wage. These two always earned more than us, worked less than us and whinged more than us. The mistakes they made ranged from sublime to ridiculous. We had to work through the night to correct them. Images put on upside down, back to front that sort of thing.

When it came time to train them up on the software – they refused 😮

As a result of trying to be ‘nice bosses’ we kept them with us for too long. Consequently our business suffered and it came to the point where we had to say to them ‘Sorry but either you guys go or we shut the door’.

We paid them all the pay they were due and the severence pay then they wanted their holiday pay then they bitched about their superannuation 👿

They knew the situation we were in. We had given them 18 months to two years of well paid interesting work in a friendly and different environment and the bottom line was that they didn’t give a stuff. 👿

I don’t think that I will ever employ anyone again. No matter how hard it gets. Unless I get so busy that I can employ a staff manager to deal with them of course 😀

[Phill Fenton]

We’ve had employees over the years and for various reasons we have had to let them go.

Now the business is run by myself and my wife Alison – we can just about manage our workload and we are happy to turn away work if we can not cope.

If I was to employ someone again I would insist on total commitment in return. Otherwise it’s simply not worth the hassle of employing them.

I’m sure the right people are out there – you just have to find them.

Be ruthless and get rid of the layabouts, skivers and wide boys and get the best staff you can. Start any new employees on a 3 month contract – and get rid of them and start some one else if you’re not completely satisfied with their performance.

[sprint]

Taking Robs’s point on “late slips”, what’s your views on time clocks/clocking in systems? Thinking of introducing one…..

Oh and yes employing people sucks

[Chris Hooper]

quote Robert Lambie:

there are lots of day to day things you should keep record of for staff.
you may think this is too much, but i don’t… government law is ALL for the employee, not the employer.

A lot os sound advice here thanks – it is a serious issue. Recruitment and Training these guys from scratch takes time and a lot of money. Its a substantial investment. This investment is a two edge sword, one hand you want to see a return from this and loath to go through the recruitment process again.

As Scozzie and rightsigns says however – you can keep them too long! the bottom line is it gets to a point when you just can’t afford to keep people who ain’t cutting it- with employment law as it is you got to do it right and show “fairness” – I agree with Nik about pride, maybe I have been unfortunate but the bottom line is it will cost me my business if it isn’t nipped in the bud.

Rob I will implement your late slip idea and the fines approach.

[John Childs]

Grrrrrrrrrrrr. 😀

One pregnant and another one leaving at the end of the month.

What’s the JobCentre phone number? (:)

[Shane Drew]

My mum dad sister and I employed upto 14 staff in our heyday.

All staff were paid well above the award, my dad treated each like family, loaning them money, taking the staff out for staff evenings, gifts through the year etc etc.

In return, we had stock stolen, money stolen, tools stolen, we were treated like fools. Our reps drove better vehicles than us! We finished up working 7 days a week, so we could make wages, and make sure our deadlines for signs were met. We finally sacked everyone but our best 3 workers. Then My dad’s health deteriated, and we sold up.

Dad, mum and I started up again, but I will never employ anyone. I could use some help now but the laws look after the staff before the employer. The best thing is tho, I have less turnover now, but I am making better money.

Now, my clients know that if I can not do it personally, it does not get done. I am booked up for 3 weeks at a time, and my customers are happy to wait, knowing that when I do arrive, they get the best service available. I like to think so anyway 😉

[David Shinn]

We had 15 employees at one stage. Never ever again. Amongst that number, you always at least one awkward/moody/uncooperative one who upsets yourself and the rest of the staff. Also, you have to spend your own time looking after the staff whilst still doing the most difficult jobs that no-one else wants to do and working when no-one else wants to.

These days we are down to one employee. The reduction in pressure and stress is wonderful. The best bit is that we are now better off than before. It is all too easy to be a busy fool, when in fact all you are doing is running a business to pay other people’s wages whilst piling the responsibility and stress upon yourself. Also, our business can tick over with a small baseline of work. With lots of staff, there is always the anxiety of having enough work, maintaining quality and chasing all those bills. Wages have to be paid at the end of every week regardless of the fact that customers can take 90 days plus to settle accounts.

Employing a big staff is a mugs game.

[Robert Grant]

I would love to leave my present job which I hate, if I could get a job in the sign industry I would be at work before my time every morning, stay later if needed without clocking every minute as overtime, I would never steal or take uneccessary sick days, I would be totally flexible as to hours or days worked, I would give 100% respect to my employer if it were returned, I would never be rude to customers (even if they deserved it), I would not look for a fortune in wages, I would be willing learn any new skills required. The down side is that I am 47 years old with no experience, but if anyone out there is looking for relibility, honesty, someone who is willing to work as hard as you. If you are willing to teach then I’m your man

[Shane Drew]

quote boab:

I would love to leave my present job which I hate, if I could get a job in the sign industry I would be at work before my time every morning, stay later if needed without clocking every minute as overtime, I would never steal or take uneccessary sick days, I would be totally flexible as to hours or days worked, I would give 100% respect to my employer if it were returned, I would never be rude to customers (even if they deserved it), I would not look for a fortune in wages, I would be willing learn any new skills required. The down side is that I am 47 years old with no experience, but if anyone out there is looking for relibility, honesty, someone who is willing to work as hard as you. If you are willing to teach then I’m your man

I hope you find somewhere Boab, coz you are a rare breed I’m telling you. All the best, I hope someone here can help you. I don’t think age is a barrier in this instance because the older generation usually have better ethics, and most times a maturity to handle customers with respect. (can you tell I am 45? 😳 )

Shane

[David Rowland]

we are looking at clocking in machines but traffic is bad for the drivers/fitters.

Being sort of Self Employed and working for more then one customer on sign related services has made it easier for them and I feel less pressurised. Would never employ anyone however when you try to borrow/mortgage they do prefer if you are employed!

[John Childs]

boab…..

That’s what they all say at the interview stage. It’s only when it is too late that we find out the truth. As employers, one of our most difficult tasks is to sort the sheep from the goats at the interview stage.

Seriously though, it you fancy a move to Little Scotland (Corby) give me a call.

[Danny McGregor]

Hi,

Very interesting stuff. Did anyone read in the Sunday Times about how much time small employers spend doing work for the government – payroll etc.

Also, following on from earlier comments regarding poor attendance, lateness etc. I got a shock when my wife brought back some handouts from a drug and alcohol abuse seminar, as it fit one of my employees to a t. I’m not suggesting that it’s any form of proof, and I wouldn’t dream of accusing anyone based on it, but have a look at this…

Evidence of inadequate
or deteriorating work
___performance_

Frequent lateness – many
brief periods of absence
for trivial reasons

Impaired concentration
and memory

Patterns of absenteeism

Prone to accidents at
work and off duty

Mistakes and errors of
judgement
___

Improbable excuses for
poor job performance

Observation of
behaviour and
appearance

Smelling of alcohol

Mood changes, irritability,
Lethargy

Deterioration in working
Relationships

Borrowing money

Combination of hand
tremor, slurred speech,
facial flushing, unkempt
___appearance

Relationships

Over-reaction to real or
imagined criticism

Unreasonable
resentment

Irritability

Complaints from
colleagues

Avoidance of line
manager or colleagues

Borrowing from
colleagues

And here’s one to get me shot down by female members – why would any small business employ a woman of child bearing age?

Danny

[Martin Armitage]

Interesting comments, as an employee I am still here at 6.10, stated at 8am and should have been finished at five, the owners of the business never stay late its always down to me to get things done, i always put the commitment in to get all jobs out on time whatever that requires, weekend working and late evenings whatever – I also have a young lady that works with me and is excellent at her job and will work as hard as i do, with encouragement from me and a pat on the back when shes worked really hard and a big thankyou occasionally. I have worked for employers that consider that because they employ you, you owe them everything. I will always give 100%, if given respect and a decent wage then make that up to 110%. Just a few thoughts from the other side of the fence. I have finished the order thats being picked up at 8.00 in the morning ( im into deal with the customer at 8 as well ) so i am of home.

[Simon Clayton]

That’s exactly what i was going to say John… I’ve seen them turn up for interviews in jeans, and dirty old tee shirts, and ones in suites… both were a total joke, demanding £20,000 A YEAR AT 16 and only wanting to do a 3 days week….. Then again i worked for sign companies that work the same way…

Simon

[Mike Grant]

My company was started in 1932 and has seen a lot of changes over the years. We had a staff of 30 in the good old days and when I joined the company at the tender age of 16 we had 17 employees. To cut a long story short, I took over the business 8 years ago with 5 employees. I worked from 8.00am till 9.00pm most nights and at weekends just to cover the bills. Slowly but surly I have lost employees for one reason or another and am now down to just me and one good reliable lad. And guess what, I am working a lot less hours now 8.00 till 6.00 and no weekends unless I absolutly have to! Mutch less stress, lots of work to keep me happy, even turning work away at the moment, and to top it all I am making MORE money even after buying an engraving machine and a versacamm.

I have had my fill of employees and their tantrums, I paid of one guy over a thousand pounds to get shot of him with no comebacks, I was so desparate to get rid of him cause of his problems becoming my problems and he was the type to have gone to an industrial tribunal at the drop of a hat. Money well spent in my mind.

Am I happy now!…………………

You bet! 😀

[Shane Drew]

quote martin armitage:

Interesting comments, as an employee I am still here at 6.10, stated at 8am and should have been finished at five, the owners of the business never stay late its always down to me to get things done, i always put the commitment in to get all jobs out on time whatever that requires, weekend working and late evenings whatever – I also have a young lady that works with me and is excellent at her job and will work as hard as i do, with encouragement from me and a pat on the back when shes worked really hard and a big thankyou occasionally. I have worked for employers that consider that because they employ you, you owe them everything. I will always give 100%, if given respect and a decent wage then make that up to 110%. Just a few thoughts from the other side of the fence. I have finished the order thats being picked up at 8.00 in the morning ( im into deal with the customer at 8 as well ) so i am of home.

Martin, hopefully the owners are rewarding you for your efforts, either financially or in other ways. I would hestitate to bet tho, that as an employee, you probably feel you are worth more.

As an employer tho, I’d bet they think that you are being paid enough and/or you are a capable employee.

From my experience tho, someone of your obvious ability, if you are not being paid enough in your own mind, will probably leave and go out on your own.

Also, when I employed staff, those I employed were often at the office longer than me, but that did not mean I was home relaxing. If I was not doing quotes, bookwork or networking, it was a rare night. I often worked at home till 11pm or later.

Thanks for your post tho, it is always good to hear another point of view.

Cheers

[David Rowland]

Martin, you and your collegue should consider your future options! Perhaps you could have staff that work all night and you leave at gentlemans hours

[Lynn Normington]

Martin,
I am sure there are many excellent employee’s out there like you,
you are just very hard to come by, the sort around now finish what they are doing and wait and wait and wait until some one tells them what is next in a small place you can’t afford the waiter you need someone who looks and thinks that needs doing and gets on and does it,
hope whoever you work for appreciates your worth you didn’t say you were unhappy 😕

Lynn

[John Simpson]

quote Lynn:

Martin,
I am sure there are many excellent employee’s out there like you,
you are just very hard to come by, the sort around now finish what they are doing and wait and wait and wait until some one tells them what is next in a small place you can’t afford the waiter you need someone who looks and thinks that needs doing and gets on and does it,
hope whoever you work for appreciates your worth you didn’t say you were unhappy 😕

Lynn

That’s why i employ 2 ladies, worth their weight in gold
L J

[Nicola McIntosh]

nice post martin!! 😛 you obviously have your respect & pride 😛 hope you do well in the trade….i have no doubts about it 😉

Nik

[Deleted User]

Hey Martin 😀

Sounds to me like you treat the business as though its your own 😀

What I mean is you seem to have the attitude of someone who is conciencious.

Your boss is a lucky man – you are a rare breed. It’s even rubbing off on your female collegue 😮

Good on ya mate.

[Robert Lambie]

your right martin and good reply… not all employees are the same. we have had some real good ones over the years and still have some today. Andrew has been with us for about ten years now, same applies, doesn’t complain about working late, main issue is getting the job right.. not just done. hes worked with me long enough now to know the way i think and i think we work well together. even though we still slag the hell out of each other, but that’s good to lighten spirits at times. we have another guy, doesn’t speak, and i mean doesn’t speak… not the fastest or sharpest tool in the box but he turns up on time all the time, does what hes asked and doesn’t complain. i don’t think employing needs to mean the person has to work like a dog or be the brightest, just does what he is there to do, that’s all you can ask of anyone.

interviews are always an eye opener to what is being brought up these days… that’s not a nice thing to say but man do we get some crackers. 😕
i have a questionnaire i give everyone applying as a sign maker, receptionist etc…. they fill it out while i interview the person in front in the office. questions like, have you every worked anywhere before.. are you afraid of heights,
have you worked with the following:
ladders
scaffold
cherry picker
etc
do you have any issues/problems with working with any of the above….
when they come in i basically read back their sheet and address their answers they have given.
this lad in particular was pretty young. about 19.
he had ticked cherry picker….
then below it where it says do you have any problems with the above he had put….

“i have a problem with this, because i would not like to pick cherries for a job!”

i read it and looked at him… i had to get up and quickly excuse myself and walked right into toilet to erupt in laughter….

once i calmed down i went back in, and said… you start monday kid! your our man….

😮 wot!

.

[biggoj]

it has come to that point, i am not employer, i am an employee, been here for 5 years now

i started at 8am tis now 12.30am, i am not a martar, i understand the job, deadlines etc, but also i feel fortunate to do something i love, and that i have been trained in, and gained knowledge in, i wake up and cant wait to get here, it has been that way for me for years now.

all of our other staff cannot wait to do one at 5pm, no enthusiasm,
all the youngens now want lots of money for no effort.
i think they should feel grateful to get a job in an industry such as this, where you can learn an exciting diverse trade, become a craftsman/woman over time, but no, its seems ‘its only a job’ fine go to tescos then, stack shelves, stop wasting my time and effort in trying to give you a future!!!!
there, thats my little rant for today!!!

[Robert Lambie]

biggoj, i think that is the key, you have to be interested and want to know more to be good and enjoy what you do for a living. if this is the case, i recon you or anyone in same boat will always keep climbing.

[David McDonald]

Not really an employer/employee point but talking about comittment I started the regular day job at 06:00 yesterday morning, finished at 18:30. Started my other ‘sign’ job as soon as I got home and now just about to turn in for the night after finishing some customer designs, have added a few more pages to my sign web site and answered the quotes and enquiries taken on the sly during the day. Back up tomorrow morning at 05:00 to start again.

The buzz is keeping me going – almost now at the point when I can switch full time and go it alone. Then all I need to worry about is employing people!

Macky D

[biggoj]

see, this is what we need, enthusiasm, dedication, and doing it for the sheer love of it!!!

after all without signs, no one would know anything!!!!

need more coffee………………………. 😮

[Keith Nilsen]

This is a great post, and somewhat frustrating to say the least. I have been looking for work for a good while now, and am amazed by how little opportunities I have come across.

I am a great worker (references attest to that) with years in the industry, sound experience and broad knowledge of the signage industry, from simple vinyl, through large format digital print, and into dynamic digital screen based signage.

I have a BSGA approved Level II Signmaking certificate, a Degree in Digital Media specializing in Digital Signage, 6 A Levels and a calm and easy going manner.

My grasp on layout, design, spelling and grammar (oh, so often overlooked in signage!) is first class. I work hard, think on my feet, bring a grown up attitude to the workplace and always get the job done better than expected, and often quicker too.

But STILL I cannot get a single job. Why? I am either too old (37!) too qualified or not qualified enough. My only necessity in a job is a half decent wage in keeping with my skills and commitment, and if it doesn’t happen soon I will be up a certain creek and most definitely paddleless!!

So, any takers? I am south London based and will commute up to an hour a day each way, which I think is reasonable. I will accept a few days work, a few weeks, a project or a full time position. I don’t drive and I have never been a fitter, having spent most my time in design, manufacture or customer services.

So, anyone need a hand?

[Carrie Brown]

Crikey Biggoj … you are very dedicated to what you do ….. can’t believe you are at work for someone else at this hour of the morning … I hope they look after you there! 😀

Oh and thanks for loading your pic …. makes all the difference 😉

[Shane Drew]

Crikey Keith, 😮 I am amazed you are still looking for work buddy. Probably your qualifications would scare some off, as qualifications usually relate to ‘expense’ in the mind of an employer.

If you were in my neck of the woods, you’d be snapped up very quickly I am sure, but it is a bit more than a 1 hr commute 😛 . Not meaning to be funny Keith, but I’d probably not stress your qualifications so much when you go for an interveiw, and make it clear when you do, that the job is your love, not the money.

Get the job first, let your employer see how valuable you are, then I’m sure a pay rise will follow. If not, it is easier to find another job when you already have one.

Have you tried looking at a job at a supplier? I’m sure you would be well qualified in a technical role..

Just my thought, as a former employer.

Shane

[biggoj]

keith

dont spose you could email me (or post) you cv??

let me know and i’ll bung an address up for yas!

its 8.30(ish) and im back, yay!!!!!

[biggoj]

shane

got any tips for getting employed in OZ in the job, as am emigrating early nest year to just outside brissy

any help adivice, much appreciated!

[John Childs]

The story continues……

One pregnant, one leaving at the end of the month and now, as of yesterday, one off with a bad back. That’s 50% of my workforce giving me trouble.

Unfortunately my client base and the type of work we do means that I cannot cut back my workforce – we have to be able to cope with the volume in peak periods.

Sometimes I wonder why I bother.

[Keith Nilsen]

Good morning….

Biggoj, I will gladly send you my CV, just send me an address to my private message box.

Shane, you are too kind sir, thank you! I have already taken your advice and previously underplayed my qualifications and experience only to be offered roles applying vinyl at £12000 a year. Don’t get me wrong, that is a skill too, and a valuable one at that, but at 37 I simply cannot afford to not use my qualifications.

Interestingly, I do actually get interviews when I send the doctored CV that shows no qualifications and less experience. Go figure huh?

[biggoj]

hiyas keith

my direct email is jasonprice@olympicsigns.co.uk

look forward to your cv

ps got around the points system for OZ, me bro lives out there! result!!!

[Shane Drew]

quote biggoj:

shane

got any tips for getting employed in OZ in the job, as am emigrating early nest year to just outside brissy

any help adivice, much appreciated!

Sorry mate, took the wife and kids a way for a few days.

Not really sure what help you need mate, you have got the points thing covered so you are halfway there.

Hop on to the australian sign associations web ste and check out the positions vacant, that may be a good start http://www.signs.org.au/Classifieds.htm, let me know what else I can do for you closer to the time.

When you say ‘just out of brissy, is that north or south. I am south, in Logan City.

Cheers,

Shane

[biggoj]

shane

cheers mate, hope you had a nice time away with the family
thats a good site, loads of info etc

we are moving to alexandra hills, which is near capallaba, south ish of the city

thanks agian mate

jas

[Simon Kay]

Hey Shane,

You really aren’t a million miles from me. I just looked on the map.

Next time I’m at Slacks Creek getting ripped off by the bike shops or go to IKEA I’ll drop in and say g’day.

cheers.
SK

[Shane Drew]

quote biggoj:

shane

cheers mate, hope you had a nice time away with the family
thats a good site, loads of info etc

we are moving to alexandra hills, which is near capallaba, south ish of the city

thanks agian mate

jas

Biggoj, contact http://www.ags.com.au as they are queenslands BEST wholesaler, and I am sure that if they know of any jobs, they’ll let you know. They are based at capalaba too, so it will be close to your new home. Tell ’em ‘Shane Drew’ told you to call, and I know if they can help they will. Only believe the good things thay say about me too… not the bad stuff… 😮

Scozzie, look forward to saying Hi. Call me on my mobile 0419 722 199 before you come by to make sure I’m there. I am on the road a lot.

Cheers to you both.

Shane

[Simon Kay]

Ha Ha,
Cheers Shane I’ll do that. 😀
Scoz

[Chris Hooper]

As a postscipt – and one that I feel I got to share with you guys.

The worst offender on the lateness issue (after the final written warning) has offered as an excuse that he is suffering from “Narcolepsy” (inability to regulate sleep-wake cycles normally – had to look this up mind)

Bullshititus is my non medical definition 😕

I now await – a reply from his doctor with very keen interest!!!!!

[biggoj]

maybe he suffers from workalepsy!

jees, what a numpty!
some people dont have a clue eh!

j

[Rodney Gold]

If he had narcolepsy , he would fall asleep all of a sudden for short periods and then wake up , you would have seen it during the course of the day , like if you are talking to him , he would just nod off.
At any rate , operating any machinery if you are narcoleptic is pretty much a no no so if he is and you want to “retrench” him , you can probably do so with no comebacks

I think he’s talking nonsense

[Simon Kay]

ZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

zzzzzz 61,000 and then I had to brake zzzzzzZZzzzzZZzz

😀 😀 😀

[Shane Drew]

quote scozzie:

ZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

zzzzzz 61,000 and then I had to brake zzzzzzZZzzzzZZzz

😀 😀 😀

I think you’ll fit in here just fine scozzie :lol1: