doming kit, are they easy to use???

[David Lowery]

Hola Matt,

Have used these before and there is a special lighter gun that you can use to remove and bubbles that you get. The temperature of the workshop needs to be warm (ish). The biggest problem I had is the amount that you have to buy. It goes off in the tubes in approx 3-6 months, if I remember correctly. I threw more away than I used 🙁

Dave

[Matt Boyd]

cheers for the reply, being in the south of spain being warmish is not to much of a problem!!! 😎
sorry to rub it in!!! so its fairly straight forward to use then? the rep said something about a lighter to rid the bubbles etc, do you always get bubbles when doing these or is it a case of once you have the nack of doing it you wont get bubbles anymore?
also if i wanted to do larger area say 15 x 15 inch would that cause problems?
cheers,
matt

[Martin Pearson]

Matt if you are buying a proper doming Kit then it should come with a gas filled sort of lighter that you use to warm the fluid which expels the bubbles. I don’t think you can really avoid the bubbles although I don’t have a lot of experience with this sort of stuff so I would say that is just a sales pitch but they are not difficult to get rid of so are not really a problem. The fluid can be supplied in different size dispensers so if you were doing larger decals then this might work out cheaper than using 2 or 3 smaller dispensers but as Dave has said the stuff has a very short shelf life so if you don’t have a real requirement for this sort of work you can end up throwing more away than you actually use. Most suppliers have a minimum order quantity so you cant just buy a tube or two of it when you need it.

[Matt Boyd]

hi martin, thanks for the reply mate. the kit i’m looking at has the lighter etc etc. i will be using it on smaller items as well as the larger items also, thats why i was alittle worried about bubbles as i will be using the kit alot. just want to make sure i don’t end up printing off stuff, then ruin it by messing it up with the doming kit!!!
cheers,
matt

[Chris Wool]

hi
doming is not really suitable for stuff bigger than 2 or 3 sq ins the smaller the better the result.

bubbles should not be a problem as long as you use the mixers supplied you just have the rouge one to pop with the flame thrower.

chris

[Matt Boyd]

hi chris, if doming is only really for the smaller items how do they do the big stuff that i want to aswell? i wanted to do somethings at around 15 x 15 inches. is this possable? do the people who do the big stuff have some sort of special process or machine that does that for them?
cheers,
matt

[Peter Normington]

Matt,
Rodney Gold is the resident expert on doming, ( do a search?) to do them at very large sizes, would work out expensive unless you bought the materials in bulk, and then you would need expensive mass producing kit.

It depends if you have a market, and how many you can sell per day/week etc.

Peter

[Matt Boyd]

hi pete,
a mass producing kit??????? the max i would be doing is around 15 inches, is this not possible with the little hand held guns? i do have a market for the stuff but don’t want to mess anything up whilst trying my hand at it!
matt

[Peter Normington]

Matt the doming kits, would do the job, even at that size if you were careful, and had a perfectly level table, the dome effect would be quite thin though, as the the larger the area the less the maniscus effect works.
but the small kits doming at that size would cost at least one cartridge of the resin, but more likely 2 or 3 so you would be looking at, as a guess £20 a hit in resin alone..

peter

[Matt Boyd]

yeah i guess it would take 2-3 cartridges for an area that size, you do have a good point there! but if you think its possable to do then thats really what i wanted to know. just didn’t know if it was a hard thing to do, if you needed a nak to it or anything! but i guess if you don’t try you’ll never find out right!
thanks for your help peter, and i still haven’t forgotten the help with the badge you gave me awhile backs now.
cheers,
matt

[Andy Gorman]

If I was doming something that big I would buy bigger cartridges or even a decent manual dispensing machine. The tiniest difference in mix ratio will cause a swirly effect on the surface so you are better off dispensing from one source.

Do a web search for Interfax Accuflow in Lichfield. They sell all the kit required including starter kits. Small starter kits are disproportionately expensive when compared to bulk quantities of resin, but it allows you to try it out.

15" square can be done, I’ve done it, and bigger. As mentioned, the resin will tend to be thinner on bigger stuff. It’s all to do with surface tension…….

[Martin Pearson]

I must admit I missed the part of Matts post about the size, as has been said at that size you won’t really get a dome effect more of a thick flat clear covering. Ask the supplier to show you a sample at that sort of size so you can get a better idea for yourself if it will look right.

[Rodney Gold]

Firstly , one can dome any size , the problem with big items is the dome sinking in the middle. We dome items that are over 100 cm2 with no problems.
The way the dome builds is based on the viscosity of the resins to a large extent.
The problem is the more viscous resins don’t release bubbles well, however the doming kits wit the helix type front dispenser will not introduce air into the mix so this should not be a problem.

The problem bubbles are not really air bubbles introduced during mixing , they are the product of humidity and moisture in the air , so doming in a dry warm place will stop this. Your kitchen table on a hot day is not dry , you need dedicated de-humidifiers to get to levels where this is no longer an issue.

As to the resins , well one can use the epoxy based ones which are easier to use and less sensitive to moisture , but by far the best are Urethane based resins with anti UV properties. We have found epoxies yellow easily and can delaminate off domed surfaces , we use a semi flexible urethane resin rather than a glass hard (item can go on curved or uneven surfaces , doesn’t get milky and doesn’t scratch or shatter)
The kits are hugely expensive in terms of price per ml , 1 Milliliter of mixed resin covers 1 sq inch. Resin in bulk is around 10 quid a liter or 1 pence per ml , IE your cost to cover 1 sq inch is 1 pence
Some of the kits can be 10 x 20x that amount and that will make you extremely un competitive.

You CAN mix bulk in a paper cup and use a sucker stick to apply , a bit more wastage and this method will introduce air bubbles in the mix , however if you use a resin with a lower viscosity and longer pot life , the bubbles rise and burst by themselves. I would suggest epoxies for this rather than urethanes which really need a dedicated mixing and dispensing system – You can get water clear 2 part epoxies at most resin supply houses
We have dedicated dispensing and metering machines and a dedicated temp/humidity controlled environment. To start doming on a commercial basis will cost around 6k (quid) for a basic setup but the profits made on doming are huge!!!! (in the order of 1000% +)
Kits are fine for occasional doming apps , they are a waste of time if you want to get into it seriously.
the value doming adds to an ordinary item is immense. A good item to practice on are coins.

[Matt Boyd]

thanks all for the comments, i will try my hand on the smaller items and then maybe on the larger ones once or twice and see what results etc. its interesting about the different types of liquid that can be used, i had no idea!! 😮
thanks for all the tips and rodney, you seem like you know what your talking about mate! so i shall try and take as much advice from these posts as i can. as with everything, its all a learning curve, so i shall see!!
i’ll have alook at those mass dispensers as that maybe something worth investing in, in the near future.
thanks again all.
matt

[carla ritchie]

we dome car reg nu mbers
we used victorys domng kit and grafytyp
we now stick to victory

we use a 5 ft fish tank turned on it side with card board lid covering open side make a flap in it to put ur trays of stuff in to the tank run a dehumidifyer with with a pipe of it in to 1 end of tank

we have the dehumidifyer on for half a day before we start any thing and results are good

we found this to be the only way to get rid of the bubbles we wasted our fist to packs listening to rubbish about how easy it was this is wat ya do ect reps are shit dont listen to a word of it .

[Matt Boyd]

hi carla, thanks for the reply. so in your experience the lighter thingy you get in the kit doesn’t work to well?

[Andy Gorman]

The lighter does work for bubbles that occur during dispensing. It will not remove bubbles that are a result of humidity or poor mixing. You are always going to get the odd bubble when you dispense, you can either hook them to the surface with a stick(!) or give them a quick burst with the lighter. The lighter is easier.

[Matt Boyd]

hooking them with a stick! bit like fishing then! :lol1: humidity seems to be the problem then that people have. will have to look into that a bit more i think.
matt

[Andy Gorman]

Humidity can be a big issue. If you are doing doming on a small scale then some sort of enclosed box/incubator type thing is a good idea. For mass production a clean room with a decent dehumidifier is needed. When I set up for this years ago, we removed literally gallons of water from the room in the first few weeks. Concrete floors, breezeblock walls etc all hold moisture. Also, dust!

[Matt Boyd]

so do i take it doming in a normal room is really a no no? even on a small scale? and if so could i just put a de humidifier in the room and do it that way?
matt

[Andy Gorman]

You could do that, but results could be unpredictable. A good dehumidifier will help but it can take a few days or weeks for it to get the humidity down to a consistently low level. If I was trying it out I would make a small cabinet as it’s much easier to dry the air in there than a whole room. You’d be surprised at what a bit of moisture can do to a domed badge – I’ve seen a large batch of badges turned milky with bubbles overnight because of it.

[Matt Boyd]

can you give me a brief outline of what i would need to do for the cabinate? what i would need to get and how to set it up? sorry to be a pain! just want to make sure i get it right!
cheers,
matt

[Andy Gorman]

I’ve never made one, but I’ve even heard of people using some kind of lidded tray that is used to propogate small plants!

Carla’s idea, mentioned above, sounds good. Also, do a bit of searching on here, because I know the subject has been covered before, with various methods being discussed.

[Matt Boyd]

nice one andy, i’ll have a look. yeah carlas idea was good. i’ll see if i can piece together something along those lines! maybe even get the father in law to help, keeps him happy!!!
cheers,
matt

[Martin Pearson]

Matt, you should be able to manufacture something like like the box Carla made fairly cheaply but don’t make it to small otherwise you will have to make another one for the larger decals you want to try.

[Matt Boyd]

yes you have a very good point there martin!!!! :lol1: i should be able to bang together something i would have thought. its worth a try anyway.
cheers,
matt

[Martin Pearson]

matt, quick tip. If you are going to use the fish tank Idea that Carla suggested then don’t bang to much as apparently glass and "impact technology" don’t go well together. :lol1:

[Matt Boyd]

ahh! ok martin, yeah that rings a bell mate. something to do with the chemicals or something. i was actually going to use the fish tank method as we have an old fish tank outside doing nothing as it happens!
matt

[Rodney Gold]

A bookshelf with incandescent lights screwed under the shelves and a thick piece of builders plastic sheeting stapled to the front makes a good drying rack as well as an area to do the doming in , use it in a place with little airflow.
A cardboard box with a few light fittings, turned upside down works ok too

[Matt Boyd]

thanks rodney, i will have a look and see what i can piece together in the next few days and hopefully get my hands on a doming kit. all your info have been noted and is very much appreciated. i take it you do the doming on a large scale then!
cheers,
matt