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Does High Quality 16 pass use more ink than normal 8 pass
Hi Everyone
My questions is someone told me that it is better to print in high quality mode it is just that much more reliable.
He said that it does not use any more ink. Is this true. He says it only affect the speed.
What are your thoughts.
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21 Replies
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Visually I don’t notice any more ink having been used – same colour density, but I did notice it when on a 32 or 64 pass and at full resolution…not that that ever gets used!!
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If we have everything set up correctly the difference in ink usage should be very small between the fastest (low res.) and the slowest (hi-res.) printing and should only amount to penny’s (10p per square metre?). The logic of this is that if your source image requires a 50% density of a particular ink to look correct on the print, it does not matter what mode you print with, you still want a 50% density for it to look correct! This works for pure inks (CYMK) or combined colours such as red’s, blue’s and green’s. If you change the density of ink used to make a colour the colour will change. The reason we have profiles for each print mode is to try to make sure this does not happen. By the way, you could also see this level of cost difference just changing from one manufacturer of substrate to another because their media’s ability to absorb ink and reflect light may be different.
Very few RIP’s have really accurate profiles for all resolutions for any given media so you may find when you print the same file in one mode and then compare it with another mode you have a change in colour which would also mean a change in cost!
When we install printers and train the operators we suggest caution with print mode selection. If our profiles are accurate, they could run all work at the highest quality and it would not significantly change the running costs, however, it will dramatically increase the time to run a job. If you can sell a job printed at 15 metres an hour but you chose to run it at 2 metres an hour you not only increase your operator costs but you can’t run anything else while this is running. Lets say it’s a 15 metre print which you sell for £40.00 per metre. The difference in the print speeds mean you have lost 6.5 hours or production which could have produced an extra £3,900.00 in revenue if you had the work!!
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If your printer slows down as a result of putting more bands/passes of ink, then it must be putting more ink down. Why would it slow down per linear ltr? try 1 pass on a resolution and see how much ink goes down and the speed it takes.
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quote Dave Rowland:If your printer slows down as a result of putting more bands/passes of ink, then it must be putting more ink down. Why would it slow down per linear ltr? try 1 pass on a resolution and see how much ink goes down and the speed it takes.
Not so.
It slows down because it is putting a narrower band down per pass for more accuracy of dot placement and alignment. If you have a printer with sa range of settings for passes per resolution (such as Roland printers) you will notice you don’t need a different profile for the different number of passes – only for the different print resolutions.
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HI Simon
Thats what i thought.
You still need to get the same colour at the end of the day.
What i just don’t understand is how does 16 passes make the quality better.I don’t mind the print taking longer because i dont have a huge amount of work for the printer. I print about 6sq mt per day.
My theory is i would rather have the printer printing then sitting as there is more chance of heads clogging up etc. To me a printer that is printing all the time is more reliable than printer that prints for 2 hours then sits the rest of the day.
that was my whole theory behind it . and also in turn you are giving your customers a better quality print
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The better quality is simply down to the more accurate dot placement.
I like your idea of printing slower to keep the printer working for more of the day – seems like a very good idea from a maintenance point of view provided you can up your speeds when you have more work.
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thats what i want to do. I can print fast when i have got more work. I have profiles for normal speed, high quality and for draft.
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I print 16 pass for canvas or photo paper at a slower speed, or 8 pass normally at a faster speed.
It does not use any more ink as you say simon, but the photo style prints look heaps better at 16 pass. 8 pass is fine for normal work though.
The problem with printing 16 pass all the time is people will expect that quality everytime, so when things pick up, and you go back to 8 pass and a quicker print, you clients may notice a difference, and think your quality has dropped.
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thanks for the help i think you have answered my question.
At least it is not costing me extra to print at high quality.
I will see how it goes. But for now im going to carry on printing high quality. As it keeps my printer busy for longer and also it gives the print longer time over the heaters which in my mind helps it cure better.
Thanks for the advice
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I agree with Dave on this: more passes = more ink with a given profile and horizontal dot count.
quote Simon:It slows down because it is putting a narrower band down per pass for more accuracy of dot placement and alignment.A printer can not change the width of a single head pass or the accuracy of dot placement (head speed variation aside). But it can change the number of times it overlaps consecutive head passes. Therefore, 2 head passes will lay down twice as much ink in a given area compared to 1 head pass. Profiles calibrate a specific resolution and head pass count. My JV3 is profiled at 720dpi 8 pass, if I use that same profile to print at 720dpi 16 pass then I’ll use twice the ink for the same print.
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I print 16 pass if printing single dark colour or printing on Hydrosol, the first is for the reason of quality as mentioned above.
Today I was printing vinyl signs 8M long by 500m/m high 95% dark grey, this may not use more ink on 16 pass but is very noticably a much better print.
The problem I have with Hydrosol is at 8 pass the printer prints too fast for the take up roller and the whole lot sticks together, i have found that 16 pass doubles the printing and drying time and is just long enough to stop it sticking, down side is standared exhibition drop 2270 x 950 gos from 25 min print time to 55 min.
Regards
Russell.
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I am actually not contesting the passes, I do think that it uses a bit more ink but I can see where the argument is coming from. I looked at the shiraz dot pattern a few hours ago, it does build it up in a speckled fashion until the band is of solid colour, so there is some sense in it but it doesn’t overprint as that is a different option.
But whats going thru my mind is a 1mtr by 1mtr square would take longer and swing more, so each swing of the print head must be using the most of nozzles to print and could take up to 10 minutes longer, so that more ink must be going down with this extra ten minutes regardless of what the nozzles are firing.
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this is a tricky one. my mind is now being swayed into printing at 8 pass now.
I dont want it to cost me a lot more. My theory though is if it can reduce time in maintenance then it is saving me. I have found that if my machine sits not printing for a longer period of time my nozzles seem to clog up and i dont have them all firing. I then have to so a series of print head recoveries which in my mind are now using the ink that you may have saved by printing in 8 pass mode.
I think this may be a much of a muchness. If you have a lot of production to do then i would definitely say rather print in 8 pass. If you can keep your printer busy 8 hours a day. but if not rather print less square meters but keep it printing for the 8 hours.
i think this makes sense?? 😕
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quote Bill McMurtry:I agree with Dave on this: more passes = more ink with a given profile and horizontal dot count.quote Simon:It slows down because it is putting a narrower band down per pass for more accuracy of dot placement and alignment.
A printer can not change the width of a single head pass or the accuracy of dot placement (head speed variation aside). But it can change the number of times it overlaps consecutive head passes. Therefore, 2 head passes will lay down twice as much ink in a given area compared to 1 head pass. Profiles calibrate a specific resolution and head pass count. My JV3 is profiled at 720dpi 8 pass, if I use that same profile to print at 720dpi 16 pass then I’ll use twice the ink for the same print.
Bill, If you watch your printer working you will notice that on a high pass count each band is in fact much narrower than when you use a low pass count. The print head is a fixed size but can be controlled as to which dots actually fire for any given print mode. What RIP do you use with your JV3? If you believe it will use twice the ink going from 8 – 16pass then some thing is very wrong. It sounds more likely in your case that the RIP has these modes wired together so you may not actually being using a profile at all when in 16 pass where you are in 8 pass.
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you do get a 16 or 32 pass mode which is called high density. which double strikes the ink on to the media. This gives a much darker print ie into clear vinyl etc.
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simon nice to see you on here and thank you for the explanations.
is this area also when the variable dot size of the head comes in to play, or am i barking up the wrong tree againchris
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I think there is a way to find out….
There is a data dump somewhere which shows how many dots have fired out of the print heads.
1: Data Dump, make a note of each heads current dot count. Add them up
2: Print 1mtr x 1mtr in Lo-pass option
3: Data dump, add them up and subtract from start data dump.
4: Print 1mtr x 1mtr in hi-pass option
5: Data Dump, add them up and subtract from 2nd data dump.
6: First count should be a few thousand less then the Second count or significantly less. -
where would you find this in your rip or on the printer.
what rip and printer do you have
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I am currently no where near the printer… its on the JV3S printer in the menus, I just cant remember. Might actually be in the Setup menus
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mmmmm ive never seen this on my printer. ive got an HP8000s.
will look on the printer. just now thats really the right way of doing it. It will conclude the answer properly.
Im also thinking of asking hp tech support themselves. maybe they can do a bit of research.
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quote Chris Wool:simon nice to see you on here and thank you for the explanations.
is this area also when the variable dot size of the head comes in to play, or am i barking up the wrong tree againchris
Hi Chris,
To me, variable dot shouldn’t make any difference but Roland figures for ink usage running the same 1m x 1m test image (ISO N5A) on the VP-540 VersaCAMM and on the AJ-1000 (fixed dot printer) in two different print modes give:
VP-540 360x720dpi = 4.71cc or £0.75p
VP-540 720x1440dpi = 5.07cc or £0.81p
AJ-1000 360×360 = 5.2cc or £0.34p
AJ-1000 720x720dpi = 10.5cc or £0.68pThe two prints from the AJ-1000 must look different but will try to find out if the fixed dot printer has some issues between modes or if this was a profiling error.
One other point if your still following this, as I understand it, in the higher res mode a variable dot printer stops being variable dot because it can only use the smallest dot size to make high res. If you look at the figures for the VP-540 in a low res mode it can use the bigger dot size. The effect of this should be slightly more dot gain so when you create a profile for this mode you would see that very slightly lower ink usage still giving you a visually similar image.
Will get back to you shortly on the "spares" question.
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