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Do you warn fellow signmakers about bad debters in your area
Hi
For the first time in 15 years, we have had to remove signs due to none payment.
Without going into the rights and wrongs of weather we should have done it or not…
My question is, The signs were from a pub/restaurant. It is not owner run, by the looks of things a larger company owns it and employs local staff to run it.
Its still in business, so I suspect the owner company might try the same on another sign company in our area.
So ring around or keep stum?
ps. if anyone wants so 3D lettering and bump sign give me a call LOL
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14 Replies
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Do you mean the place is brewery owned Denise?
Lots of places get into large debts with the brewery’s and end up having to hand over the ownership to the brewery, but continue to run the pub as an employee. not saying that’s how they all come about, just happens…also, publicans and the like go into deals with brewery’s that they will get signage and sometimes a refurb in return for buying a set amount from the brewery’s over the years. so brewery picks up the tab. but not if they dont make the target spends. more to it than just that obviously..
in a nutshell we refuse pint blank to do work for pubs and clubs… not tarring them all with the ones stick of course but stung too many times. we have even turned away a huge contract by a leading brewery covering Scotland and northern england based on the same scenarios above.
as for a black listing, yes, i fully agree.
UKSG used to ahve a closed forum to discuss this sort of thinga nd name and shame customer. it actually worked well on several occasion’s but wasnt used enough so we removed it. -
I’m sure you’ll get this from more than me…
Deposit. Deposit. Deposit.
I do hope you took one. At least you wouldn’t be ‘out of pocket’ for the materials.
Unless there’s a local company you’re particularly friendly with I’d keep quiet.
I probably sound right selfish, but would they tell you? Will they be round there touting for a job? Forewarned to get cash upfront…
They’re competition at the end of the day.
I must admit I have on occasions let people off my usual rules, one actually the pub over the road from the old shop. They owe me around £30, and have dissapeared over night… But these small ones remind me ehhh I should gett paid first!
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yeah no deposit?
pubs in the west country are poor but many of them, we do work for some of them ok but we are cautious.
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I reckon we should resurrect the bad debtors forum..
For me – the alarm bells start sounding whenever I get a new enquiry from someone I haven’t dealt with before that begins by saying "I’ve been let down by another sign company". Usually this means that they are either bad payers or pain in the @rse customers. I have a lot of respect for other sign businesses in my area and I know that if someone is complaining to me about the way they have been treated – its usually because they have unrealistic expectations.
I would gladly share details of al the rogue companies in my area if there was a forum to do so.
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quote Phill Fenton:I reckon we should resurrect the bad debtors forum..I recall a job we had problems recovering payment from a good few years ago…….got paid after threatening to list them on the bad debt section of the Uk’s biggest sign makers forum…..they then paid up.
I’m with Phill…..bring it back…….they are taking money from you and your family by not paying up!
John
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I can’t say I’ve called round others to let them know about bad debtors as it seems that they might stiff YOU for the bill but magically manage to pay other people for stuff after you’ve removed the first one.
However word travels round pretty fast about both the bad debtors / scammers and the pains in the ass types…the latter seem to be attracted to me for some reason…you’d think I’d learn, but you keep hoping enough time has gone by that they just might be decent customers, no such luck.
We’ve got several sizeable outstanding debts with a selection of pains in the ass types that seem to think we’re a bloody bank offering interest free loans on a pay it back when you can basis. Deposits – sure that’s NEVER an issue…it’s the balances.
I’ve been brutal in the past with a few customers to make examples of them. Even to the point of turning up on a building site with a cutting disk, generator and felling two large architect type signs (concreted in) after cheques were bounced on purpose. Removed by giving notice to debtor (who thought I was bluffing) and with site manager’s blessing.
Dave
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We did get a deposit….. it did bounce at first time, the second time we caught it LOL. Perhaps we should have spotted the "signs"
we just got sick and tired of the lies. The old "cheques in the post" sorry the pesron who writes the cheques is on holiday, it must have got lost. lost invoices, we`ll pay by bacs, sorry lost your bank details. 2 bounced cheques also.
It got to the stage where i knew their phone number off by heart.
So we took the decision that if we were going to lose out, so will they. we are out of pocket but so are they.
Their signs sit in the workshop, hopefully waiting for the man with the credit card to ring, I did say to him if he doesn`t pay by a certain date the signs will be removed, and if he wants then refitting he`ll need to pay in full with an additional £300 removal and refitting charge applied. i did hear him start to say something but the phone was already hitting the receiver.
I pass on a something a customer told me when we were talking about chasing debts.
Every time you call, make a note of the date and who you spoke to. Make a note of every excuse and reason for not being able to pay.
This gives you more to hit them back with when they make an excuse. For example, I was told by one lady they had lost the invoice. She was taken back when i could recall that i emailed it on a certain date, faxed it over on another date etc etc. When she asked for the bacs details I was able to say they i had already given them on several occasions and to whom.
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Are your deposits large enough? I hear some companies only take 10% or so. I don’t think that’s enough to make anybody feel the LOSS if they don’t complete the deal and pay when complete.
I take nothing less than one third – sometimes more depending …
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My advice is not to accept cheques. They are no longer guaranteed (since 30 June 2011 – as if that meant anything anyway). Unfortunately there are a few more ways to avoid paying but definitely do not bother with cheques anymore. Just a waste of time when things go wrong.
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Don’t accept Euro’s either as they’re also pretty worthless 😕
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Anything under £100(net) I expect 100% up front.
I would expect any business to have sufficient funds, or planning to be able to afford that as a deposit.
Anything over £100 I would expect a minimum 50% deposit.
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quote David Hammond:Anything under £100(net) I expect 100% up front.
I would expect any business to have sufficient funds, or planning to be able to afford that as a deposit.
Anything over £100 I would expect a minimum 50% deposit.
Agreed, tbh if they struggle to get the deposit paid its likely they will struggle to pay the final bill, just not worth the risk
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Are you guys as directors allowed to trade while insolvent (not able to meet your current debts) while running a company?
Down here its against the law and you can apply to the courts to have a company wound up because of it.
Most times these people have the money they just don’t pay. This action usually results in quick payment of the outstanding debt. But if they are truly insolvent you’ll end up with nothing but at least they can’t trade any longer.
We’ve had to do it a few times and they always pay up. Just make sure you have your paperwork in order have a purchase order or a deposit (above $50 down here) and you can prove all the work got completed. So they don’t turn around and dispute the bill/invoice and its only an issue of non payment.
Live and learn.
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quote Jason Xuereb:Are you guys as directors allowed to trade while insolvent (not able to meet your current debts) while running a company?
Down here its against the law and you can apply to the courts to have a company wound up because of it.
Most times these people have the money they just don’t pay. This action usually results in quick payment of the outstanding debt. But if they are truly insolvent you’ll end up with nothing but at least they can’t trade any longer.
We’ve had to do it a few times and they always pay up. Just make sure you have your paperwork in order have a purchase order or a deposit (above $50 down here) and you can prove all the work got completed. So they don’t turn around and dispute the bill/invoice and its only an issue of non payment.
Live and learn.
Don’t think its quite the same in the UK. If your bankrupt you can’t be a director but IIRC once discharged you can carry on again. If your a sole trader than your financial status has no real relevance. Your only real recourse for a bad debt is the small claims court, which in most cases is about as useful as a chocolate fire guard.
Even if you win in court it doesn’t actually mean you will get your money.
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