Do you take a 50% deposit?

[Peter Normington]

Not unreasonable at all Karl.
If you have never dealt with the customer before, and dont have a reason to trust them, 50% is fine. if they cant live with that tough, I have no idea what business your customer is in, but I would bet they don’t give credit, or produce goods without a deposit from non account, or new customers.

Peter

[Karl Williams]

I have dealt with them before Peter. It was a small job so I just did it and got paid. But like I said it was small. This is a larger amount and due to being screwed last year a few times I am unwilling to let anyone have a job done without paying half up front especially on this scale.
They own 4 pleasure parks and no, they don’t give credit and are very expensive.

[Marcella Ross]

doesn’t sound unreasonable to me either Karl.
I personally have never asked for a deposit, but I have insisted on full payment before leaving the completed signs will someone.

[Chris Wool]

i do think that asking for a down payment is a little bit unprofessional.
i have been known rarely to ask but £2500 job for people you dont know or trust then reasonable to ask.

chris

[Karl Williams]

Thanks Marcella. This job isn’t just a delivery.
Quite a bit of designing……..Cut foamex lettering…….6 Sheets of diabond……..digital printing and a 2 man install.

[Peter Normington]

Karl, tell them to open an account with you could take up to 2 weeks, so under the circumstances, if they need the product quickly, a 50% deposit should be acceptable, most off my suppliers would ask for FULL payment to non account customers, no exceptions,
These people seem to think that because you are only a small business, you are desperate to work for them.

If they cant accept your terms, they are not worth dealing with.
and are probably a bad risk anyway.

Peter

[John Childs]

Stick to your guns Karl.

[Karl Williams]

quote John Childs:

Stick to your guns Karl.

Thanks Chaps. I got the answers I needed. I think we all need a bit of advice and reassurance sometimes.

Karl.

[Jill Marie Welsh]

Damn straight!
Not always 50%, but in some cases (ordering wholesale) I get 100% up front.
If a customer will not give a deposit I am VERY leery of working for them.
Love….Jill

[Phill Fenton]

Go with you instinct. If you don’t think you can trust them then don’t. If they are genuine they shouldn’t object to paying a sizable deposit.

Once again I am suffering the result of being too trusting with someone and I am having to threaten to remove a sign in order to get paid.

I should listen to my own advice sometimes 😕

[Lynn Normington]

customers we don’t know we want to be paid in advance, we did some work for a big tv production company and insisted we got paid on collection, I think they were quite bemused, they said " well don’t you know who we are?" "no" any way long and short we got paid. The trouble is you do work for a big company, and you are entitled to think they must be ok!! but you get sucked into cyber space and when you haven’t been paid for 3 months you can’t find anyone who knows what you are talking about, and you feel like you are begging?? sorry waffling

Lynn

[Karl Williams]

No Lynn you’re right in what you say. Sometimes I get the impression they think we are a lower class of people and don’t think paying us should really matter. The fact is that without us they would have no business cos it’s us who get their names out there. I’ve lost count of the amount of times a customer has given me a blank look when it comes to being paid.

[John Harding]

quote :

Do you think I’m being unreasonable?

Not at all – i ask for deposits with all new clients and sometimes existing customers where the goods I am ordering are bespoke items ie a large format printed banner ive just quoted at £3K and I want half up front.

basically its your train set run how you wish and sleep easy at night

John

[David Rowland]

50% on new customers, unless it is a big client that you know a bit or their history. If a holiday park then that might be put on account even if first order. But signatures on paperwork!!!

[John Childs]

quote Lynn:

they said ” well don’t you know who we are?”

When I was a very young lad, straight out of school, my first job was in the York Trailer Company. Their policy was strictly cheque on collection.

I was doing my turn alone on duty in the sales office one Saturday morning when the Ford Motor Company called to collect two new trailers without the payment, so I refused to release them. Half an hour later I got a phone call from the finance director of Ford going nuts and saying, "we’re the Ford Motor Company", and getting all high and mighty. I thought I should seek higher authority so, with a great deal of trepidation, I rang my own finance director at home. I was expecting a roasting for disturbing his weekend but instead I got a pat on the back for doing the right thing. He told me that if I got any more trouble from Ford I was to tell them that our company made a profit in the previous year whilst Ford made a loss, so don’t try to teach us about credit control.

It didn’t matter who the customer was, the company policy held firm for everybody. I learned a lot from that man.

[Lynn Normington]

quote :

basically its your train set run how you wish and sleep easy at night *

I love that mr hardings and so true I love trains and have never thought of that anology thank you

Lynn
sorry haven’t got the hang of the quote do bobs

[Chris Dowd]

Credit is a privilege and not a right!

The question I often ask is "could you walk into Tesco’s and walk out with a couple of grands worth of food".

All new clients are minimum 50% deposit, balance on completion. We do then set credit limits for all other customers based on information we receive from an on line credit check.

[Lynn Normington]

how do I get out of the white box 🙄 when I say something some one else has said ?? make it simple please it’s been a long long day 😎

Lynn

[John Childs]

quote Lynn:

how do I get out of the white box 🙄 when I say something some one else has said ?? make it simple please it’s been a long long day 😎

Type after the [/quote] bit at the end. 😀

[Lynn Normington]

ok John where is after the quote ?

Lynn

[John Childs]

quote Lynn:

ok John where is after the quote ?

Look for the [/quote] bit at the end of the text you are quoting.

Make sure the text entry cursor is after that.

Type in your message.

[Lynn Normington]

maybe tomorrow 😎 my day has been to long thank you

Lynn

[James Martin]

quote Lynn:

ok John where is after the quote ?

Lynn

Had to try that myself.

[Lynn Normington]

you must have figured it James 😀

Lynn

[Kimberley Edwards]

It depends upon the job or if I have worked with the customer previously. If it’s a window job that is 30 miles away, I’m not going to put myself out to go collect a deposit on it, instead, I’ll have them return a fax or e-mail that says they are to provide full payment upon completion. If it’s a larger job with a higher price tag I get a deposit. Funny thing is though, the only time I’ve ever been messed out of payment was from a customer I had gotten a deposit from. Any customer who tells you asking for a deposit is unprofessional is not to be trusted in my book. These are business people, they know how business is done – would they say that to someone installing duct work or a roof, or if they were renting equipment? For some reason they like to do that sort of thing to sign people.

[David Rowland]

code :[quote]in[/quote]and out

quote :

in

and out

[John Gregson]

For new companies, placing orders above £100.00, I insist on full payment, for the 1st 3 orders, via proforma before work commences. I’ve never had anyone complain or retract an order because of this.

The reason I do this is because when I 1st started in the trade design agencies and car dealerships were taking over 3 months to pay and sometimes didn’t want to pay at all.

What you have to think is when you 1st started did your suppliers give you 30 days credit without an account. To get an account at Amari I had to have 3 orders paid for upfront before they opened one. This was the same for Sericol, Colenso and all of my other suppliers.

Cheers John

[Kimberley Edwards]

quote :

car dealerships were taking over 3 months to pay

Funny, that would appear to be an international thing then. I’ve all but set up camp in some of those showrooms to get paid, but to be fair, others have been right up front. It’s a very common complaint though.

[Peter Mindham]

50% deposit with confirmed written order.
Balance on delivery or installation. ALWAYS

Still chasing a large sum for 4 vans from early last year. Paid for half then not for other. Total 8 vans only 4 paid for. Gone bust so unlikely to get money. Karl, better to lose the job than lose the cost of the job, time etc. Offer credit account after three jobs based on normal credit checks.

Peter

[Karl Williams]

Thanks Guys n Gals.
I spoke to them this morning. The conversation went like this:
I asked if they wanted to go ahead with the order. Their reply, "Yes we want to go ahead, we’re very pleased with the quote.When can we see the artwork". My reply, " You will receive the artwork in a couple of days with pleasure, Thanks for your business. Would you like me to pop over and collect your deposit?"
Their response "Karl I have told you we are unwilling to pay a deposit….We will pay once the job is done and will pay after we have checked everything is in order!"
My response "Sorry but I won’t be willing to carry out the work without a deposit as I explained yesterday. If you can’t or won’t pay the deposit then unfortunately for you and I we won’t be doing business."
Quickfire response from them "We are a very large company with very good credit. We always pay our bills. We are spending hundreds of thousands on new rides this year" blah blah bleeding blah heard it all before. She carried on for about 5 minutes.
My final response. "I’m very happy for you and wish you the very best of luck. Please call if you change your mind and thank you for inviting us to quote you. Have a good day!"

I then put the phone down. Then for some strange reason I shouted out
C@unt……F’ck……Bo!!ox……W@ank. 😕

You win some you lose some but that’s what working for yourself is all about. I love my job.
Even though I may at this point have lost the job I’m happy I didn’t back down.

Karl.

[Peter Normington]

I think you did the right thing Karl.
Many large companies have gone skint, so that excuse isn’t valid
I’ll start the list with Rover,

how many more can people come up with ?

Peter

[Karl Williams]

Anyone can run out of cash. Donald Trump went bust owing billions in the eighties. Granted he came back in a big way. If you were to ask him he would say "Trust your gut instinct always and never back down!"

The list that springs to mind:
Rover
Ratners
Pierce signs
Pannell Signs
Northern Rock
Bearings Bank
Even Walt Disney went bust first time round.
The list is endless. from my experience the more they say they have it the bigger chance they haven’t.
Thanks Peter for the comments.
I do think they will come back at the last minute though and expect me to drop everything and do there job. We’ll have to wait and see.

[Craig Bond]

Michael Jackson!!

Well done Karl, you might have lost the job, but you haven’t lost £2000+

That is more gutting than not getting the job

[Karl Williams]

I’ve given people the benefit of the doubt before, even my own brother and got into a right mess financially. I won’t let myself get F*cked over a barrel again.

[Lynn Normington]

Karl if they are serious they will be back with deposit in hand, I don’t know how these companys dare to think they don’t have to pay a deposit, as I said last nite the bigger the company the easier it is to loose you in the book keeping section, no one will ever know who you are or why you expect to be paid, and make you feel like a low life by asking for your own money 👿

Lynn

[Karl Williams]

Couldn’t agree more Lynn. 😉

[Phill Fenton]

You did the right thing Karl.

If they’re good they may well still come back to you and accept your terms.

If not – you’re better off out of it

[Ivan Morley]

Can you imagine the reaction you would get if you turned up at one of the theme parks and said you would pay when you leave the site? 😀

The price for the signage is minute compared to the cost of a new ride, so I don’t understand why they are making such a fuss.

[Peter Mindham]

Well done Karl. It is a dilemma but I will never get burnt again. You don’t need them that badly. They will get the local cowboy and a cr@p job. Or see the light and offer the deposit. Don’t forget the rush charge as your time is now booked with another project 😉

Peter

[Karl Williams]

It’s good to know the majority backs me up on this. when things like this take place I kept asking myself if I was doing the right thing or not. Suppose I’m not the only one who gets this. Thanks Mr. Mindham. 😉

[Lynn Normington]

no Karl, I think you will see by the answers you weren’t singled out, it happens to us all and teaches us a lesson

Lynn

[Jason Xuereb]

I wonder if they paid a deposit for the new rides.

[Eddie Taylor]

I am just about to pass on a job involving protecting the paintwork on around 6 million quids worth of cars. I kid you not! Small bits to start with, but could be a very nice piece of work in the future.

I have asked for 50% up front, first order, and they are saying that this is not how they do business.

That will be cheerio then!

[John Childs]

quote Eddie Taylor:

I have asked for 50% up front, first order, and they are saying that this is not how they do business.

This can be a problem for anyone wanting to make a jump to the next level up.

Poxy local theme parks don’t count in this, but most large businesses don’t do business on the basis of deposits. They place orders, and expect to be sent an invoice, which they will pay in their own good time.

All large organisations have a procedure for dealing with invoices. This might be fairly quick, or might be quite involved and take some time but the fact is that, whatever their system, you won’t short circuit it. By the same token, my experience is that your invoice won’t be held up either. It will get treated the same as all the others and when the time comes around you WILL get your cheque.

We have a large variety of customers with different procedures. Some pay us in thirty days, some sixty, and a few at ninety, but the thing is, with all of them, I can tell you, within a couple of days either way, exactly when we will be paid for any job.

The thing is, it doesn’t matter to me. I know my customers and the ones whose systems takes ninety days will pay considerably more than the quicker ones. I make sure of that at the quote stage so that I am not out of pocket by dealing with them.

So, dealing with small local companies, get your deposits, and that’s only right and proper. But if you want to play with the big boys then you have to play by big boy’s rules. And that means credit, being able to afford to finance your debtors, and accepting the associated risks.

[Peter Normington]

Johns advice as usual is good,

but now the but,

Big boys rules maybe, but a couple of thousand on a first order, is petty cash to the "big boys"
Just make sure that if you go down the route of giving credit to so called big boys, you get an official, signed, purchase order.

Quite often the person making the order, hasn’t got the authority, they just think they do because they work for a big boy…

Nothing worse than trying to convince the bought ledger department that "Scott" whats his name, ordered the decals…

Any large company, will set up an account in the proper manner, and not just expect credit, simply because of their name.
so in lieu of a deposit, a proper account is necessary,

Peter

[Phill Fenton]

quote Peter Normington:

Nothing worse than trying to convince the bought ledger department that “Scott” whats his name, ordered the decals…

Peter

That’s easy enough to deal with – when that happens to me (why is it always large building companies?) I just threaten to remove the signs again….. The cheque always arrives a few day later 😀

[Peter Normington]

Phil,
how about your new book title

"How to ensure payment by threats"

Subtitled "Sicilian guide to account keeping" 😉

Peter

[Phill Fenton]

:lol1: :lol1: :lol1:

[Michael Potter]

After being screwed over several times this year we have started asking for 50% deposit. It has presented no problem with the size of customer we deal with. Strangely we quoted for one of Australia’s largest retailers and their reply was interesting No worries mate can you invoice us in 2 lots.
I can’t afford to loose the money and if I don’t get the job so be it.
our son is owed $20,000 on one job and has stopped work till payment is received.
Cheers Mike

[Jason Xuereb]

I agree with Johns comments.

One thing I can add is that if your going to work on credit terms with larger companies contact a debt collector and make sure all your procedures in place gather the information that is required by a third party to chase up any debts.

This will reduce your risk if you ever need to use a third parties services to recover your money. Also like John said plan to finance the debt and structure this into your pricing.

[John Childs]

Re-reading my comments above, about playing with the big boys, it struck me that I might have come across as a bit pompous. So I thought I’d better clarify a bit.

It’s not about the current size of your business because, no matter how big a company you are, there are still jobs that you should pass on. We are not a large company by any means but we do have the capacity to process an awful lot of vans under the right circumstances. Even so I have politely declined to tender on a couple of jobs lately. The reasons varied from the subjective (I thought one was too risky) through the objective (one we just couldn’t afford to finance) to the practical (taking it on would have adversely affected the service we give to our regular customers).

I think that those are all valid considerations that apply to any size of business in any industry and that all of us ignore them at our peril.