Disability Act – Signage in Braille

[SignMadeMike]

Give Andy(textcat) a call on 02392 666813, he has done a lot of research into DDA and loves to help out.

[Steve Broughton]

Well this seems like another case of PC gone crazy, now please don’t have a go and I’m not taking the ‘P’ out of blind people, but how are they supposed to find a sign with braille on it, ridiculous, can you imagine it “Danger open manhole” in braille. 🙁

[Martin Pearson]

Steve I know your not tryiny to take the “P” at all but it is a fact that only 5% of people who are registered blind can not see at all. The other 95% can see to varying degrees, some have problems distinguishing colour some with bluring etc. If signage is designed and placed correctly you would be surprised how many of these “blind” people would benefit.

[ruth]

Steve,

I’m surprised by your off-hand response, a bad day I guess?

I’m sure that blind people on a train might like to know where the fire extinguisher is, not to use the toilet whilst in the station etc. If you travel on a new Virgin Voyager train you’ll see that all of their signs are in Braille as well as print. Surely blind people are entitled to a similar volume of signage. Imagine how much you read as you travel around. Much of this is impracticalbe to offer in braille but wherever possible surely it should be? Just think how inquisative children are then image if you had a blind child you would want as much as possible available for them to read.

Personally, I’m all for it and I hope that whoever has the information can provide it here on the boards.

Additionally, imagine the upsale possible if you too could offer braile signage? The dissability act puts the legal responsibility on everybody who runs a business to make sure that they do not discriminate aginst disabled people. This means that shops which have a step at the door need to have a doorbell and a ramp so that wheelchair users can gain access. They also need staff available and willing to help wheelchair users to browse items on high shelves. Restraunts and Cafes need to have staff willing to read the menu to a blind client if they haven’t got menus in braille that is! This is a change for the better that contains business opportunities for us all !

Ramjam

[Steve Broughton]

Here we go wrong end of the stick again, I was being literal, what good is a sign to a person if they can not find it to read the braille, I mean theres this person in the middle of a railway station how on earth is he going to find the sign in the first place wether it is in braille or not, surely if there were more staff available to help variously disabled folk than just slapping up a few signs, but of course the government has to be seen to do something and not to discriminate but they only do as much as they have to.

Martin why the “” around the word blind, should I have said “visually impaired” sorry but PC really “P’s” me off.

Ram Jam no I’m not having a bad day and it wasn’t an off-hand remark but “I’m sure that blind people on a train might like to know where the fire extinguisher is” and do what with it?, it would be better if there were staff available to help rather than slapping up signs willy nilly.

[Martin Pearson]

Steve no it wasnt because you should have said Visually impaired, the “” around the word blind was simply because most of these people are not blind as in they can see nothing. As I said 95% of registered blind people have some form of sight.
Believe it or not the PC brigade “p” me off as much as you, I think in a lot of cases they make things worse, and actually help to discriminate against disabled people with their medeling. Most of them are not handicapped in any way at all and probably dont know anyone who is.

[signscript]

Ive got to say im with Steve on this one… and before anyone has a go im saying this as the father of a disabled child with a rare motibility condition and as a member of the stearing group for the “kids” side of the new DDA.
And i hate “mobility impared” “special needs” and all those other PC words … DISABLED works quite well and you will find that visually impared people are usually quite happy being under the BLIND label

Unfortunatly only about 50% of the new DDA will help of have an effect on the quality of life for most disabled people, the rest is a load of unobtainable political bo**ocks, most small businesses will either not be aware of what they are supposed to do to conform, and if they do will probablly not be able to aford the changes, those of us that deal with BIG clients, i deal with Luminar Leisure and First Leisure 2 biggies in the leisure industry and i intend to make a killing out of them as they do have the money and they know that they have to conform. so i would target your medium and large customers and ask if they would like you to come and assess their signage to see if it complies with the new Disability Discrimination Act and im sure most will jump at the chance as its one less headache for them to worry about.

more info can be obtained from:

DWP http://www.disability.gov.uk/
and
DRC http://www.drc-gb.org/

hope this helps. if anyone needs specific info try emailing the DWP
enquiry-disability@dwp.gsi.gov.uk

[Robert Lambie]

on what has been said. When I first read Steves reply I agreed!
I do “properly” understand what he means by his comment.
Maybe Martin will remember a post I made about 1 year ago.
It was a similar post. Not asking for info, but saying “is Braille signage a gimmick of some sort? Why have them if they cant see them?”

Martin corrected me and pointed out what he has said above. Thank you Martin.

In the past post he stated like he has said. Signs made in certain colour, size and placed at certain height do help 95% of the partially blind.
Ok I thought, i am wrong! Maybe these companies aren’t doing it for the goody goody image.
Since that post I continue to look at this type of signage.

I have to say; I dont think i have yet seen any at a consistent height. Nor in the same colour.
Most I have seen are coloured to suite the décor of the building or other signage.
I even seen Braille signs in chrome. Some low down some at eye level..
Which takes me back to my question.. Do the large companies of today, do this for the blind, or do it because:-

“A” they have to by law these days
“B” to give out the caring company image.
“C” they do it because they really do cater for all?

Knowing that Martin has done his homework on this type of signage & is probably 100% correct. I have made my own mind up that about 7 out of 10 do it, probably because they have to these days but try their best to keep it subtle and with the surrounding décor. & Maybe 2% do it for the goody “we care image”
Which leaves about 1% actually abiding by the laws.. Probably shopping centres etc would be the ones to carry it all out correct!

or maybe im wrong.. 🙄

[signscript]

Here is another one for you, howmany TOWN MAPS / SHOPPING CENTRE LAYOUTS etc etc do you see at a height accessable by wheelchair users?? as a regular wheelchair Pusher, i havnt seen any !!

[Martin Pearson]

Thanks Robert & yes you are right I have done my homework on this one.
I think you are probably wrong in your thinking but I can see how you have come to your conclussions, you are right there is no uniformity at the moment so I’m not surprised people see this as a gimmick.
I think the real reason is ignorance all round. The companys are aware they have to do something and so they do, they put up some braille signs and think everything will be OK. The signmakers are pretty much the same, they know there are now regulations so if asked to do this work they put up some braille signs, problem solved.
I could be wrong but this is how I see it at the moment, this post is proof that not a lot of signmakers are clued up on the regulations by the lack of response.
Like you Steve I hate all these fancy names, disabled works fine as far as I am concerned so lets stick with it. I dont know if they mean well or are just trying to make a name for themselves but some of the things the PC brigade do and say often helps to drive a wedge between disabled and able bodied people and instead of making things better often make things worse.

[Lee Attewell]

Ok …so how do I make a braille sign?

[Martin Pearson]

Chalkie its not quite that simple, you have to leave the right bubbles in the right place. If you dont watch where you leave the bubbles you could be saying anything.

[Stone]

I am with you Martin speaking as a disabled person. (but not blind)I think braille should be used where ever possible. As with everything else in life there will be people who really do care and will make every effort to ensure that the signs not only conform but they are designed and placed correctly. Then there are the well we have too, so just make it blend in with everything else types. As for being PC i don’t care what people call me as long as they pay the bill on time 😉