-
Design Brief Ideas
Does anyone have a brief they provide to customers before starting the design process.
We catch all the information about the customer/vehicle, now looking to get information on what information they want on their vehicle, and where, colours etc.
Anyone got anything I could use for inspiration, I know what I need to find out, but it’s putting it across without being too bloaty and loosing the customer’s interest!
-
28 Replies
-
I would be interested in this too David. There is always something I forget and then there is the customer that takes your artwork to the guy along the road. There should be a law against that alone!
-
I have spend a considerate amount of time on this subject.
I wanted to get a company to make me a short video (like a cartoon)
Video that will explain what I need:
– 4 photos from all sides.
– Logo in vector format.
– Simple drawing how client imagines his van will look like. Google image or image from my website that he likes and would like his van to be designed in a similar nature.
– Relevant fonts and photographs related to the company.
– Budget available for the project.
I know companies where vehicle graphics design is separate service. Client pays and owns the design. Then client can use any sign-writing company to do the work.
I cannot make this work. I dont want to sell design service. I want to sell vehicle sign-writing.
I’m afraid that as soon I ask the client to make simple drawing – he/ she will run away. Swings and roundabouts
-
This reply was modified 3 years, 4 months ago by Pane Talev.
-
This reply was modified 3 years, 4 months ago by
-
Not sure I’m qualified to join in with this one as nobody leaves my place with what they asked for, but, I honestly think you’re expecting far too much from the client to be fair. Firstly, they come to you for your expertise in this field, most will have no clue what they want let alone be able to sketch it out for you. The rare ones will have come fresh from a design agency with big ideas but no money left. Also, most won’t know what language you’re speaking when you ask for a vector file & will maybe have a very low res image off a letterhead on their phone or something like that. The budget question is critical although usually awkward. Nobody admits to have given it any thought & are nearly always lying. Ask if £500 scares them, the answer is usually always no. Ask them if a grand scares them & they usually always say ‘wouldn’t want to spend any more than that’
So there you go, they have thought about it, they just didn’t want to get into a poker game with you.
So the the budget is now a grand, plus the dreaded but a bit of effort on your part, they’re up to £12-£1300 without too much aggro. You all have an average idea of the material required for an average van, & a rough idea how long you can spend doing it before you’re doing it for free. There should be plenty of meat left in the job for you to whip up something appealing to the eye but don’t give it to them to think about it (we know they’re just going to hawk it round every sign writer in the county anyway) instead, tell them it still has value to you so it’s not for free, it stays in a file until a competitor of theirs wants a van doing. A quick name & number change & it now belongs to their deadly enemy & they’ve missed the chance to buy it from you in favour of a cheaper job down the road (who asked for a sketch & a vector file 😄)
-
i like your tactics kevin! i think your 100% spot on.
-
-
In the current climate we don’t have people really visiting it’s all by email/phone at the moment.
We can establish the budget, but before starting the design, i’m trying to get a record of what’s required/expected.
What colours do they like, don’t like, what logo to use, contact details, bullet points… instead of just guessing and doing a million revisions. We’ve no problem being creative, it’s just finding out what content to get creative with.
-
I sympathise with your predicament David, I usually have clients coming in when I don’t want them to & my method of nailing down a job largely depends on a face to face with a prospective customer. Admittedly this doesn’t fit everybody in our industry but I’ve found over the years that customers rarely have any ideas or if they do it’s a dreadful one, I find it much easier to give them a starting point but do it with your previous work, not a new layout. Also, if I go out to present artwork to a client, it will be on my ridiculously oversized ipad pro so they don’t ask for it to show the wife at home which would be a different story had I printed on a piece of paper. I tend to show them 3 folders of previous jobs in a range of prices to gauge the kind of thing they’re after.
Don’t get me wrong, I get called some awful names by a lot of my client base when I bully my way into doing it my way but I respectfully disregard a lot of their ideas because they have no idea how to promote their business, we, in our industry know best how to do that & I’ve found a lot of them actually want to be lead by the nose. It usually ends up with them admitting they were wrong (which I knew anyway 🤐) Try & put yourself in the driving seat for the next few that contact you & see if you can steer them where you want them to be, I never did well when I gave them everything they asked for, jobs looked terrible & I was embarrassed to invoice them. Do it your way not theirs, you know better.
-
I need to go through all the images we have, and get them in some kind of order. Need get them online some where so we can share them easily when not face to face.
Be alright if we could get them into see us, but 90% just want a price, and go off that 😠
-
See, that brings out the more unpleasant side of my alreadyunpleasant character, you wouldn’t walk into an estate agent & ask how much is a house, or a car dealer and say ‘how much is a car’, all ranges of prices for different products. Had an instance at my place when a big burly guy came in & told me the sign company down the road told him they’d do his van for £300, how much would I charge. I cringed a bit but returned with ‘no idea, out of interest, what line of business are you in?
‘ I’m a builder’ he said puffing his chest out. Perfect I replied, been waiting ages for a builder to come in, I need some building work doing, how much is building? The funny look he gave me said it all ‘it depends what you want’ He paused for a second or two before the penny finally dropped.
Ok, what do you recommend?
I recommended £900 & did it a week later
-
We just dont get people coming in to see us. Could do it over the phone, but most is via email, I’m trying to change that.
Having moved house recently and seeing what ‘trades’ charge, and their crap customer service, then they quibble over a few quid, and want everything doing yesterday 🤨 I’m going to be more like Kevin!
-
Some really good points here guys. I think kevin is doing it the right way and if we all played the same game our industry would gain more respect and more importantly we would all be earning more!.
-
I’m not saying I’m right chaps, just decided I prefer a better quality customer. If you go out to buy anything for yourself, are you looking for the cheapest you can find or the best? You want the best because it says a lot about you. I only filter them out because doing it for the lowest price guarantees it won’t be your finest work & very unlikely to bring any more business off the back of it. If you make yourself less accessible to the boneheads, you get a much better calibre of client. As an example, go into a posh jewellers & browse the expensive watches. You won’t have anyone jump on you pestering you to sign up to finance it, nor would you want them to because that says they think you can’t afford it. If they said sorry, I don’t think these watches are for you, they’re quite expensive, you’d hit the roof but want one even more. I do feel very strongly about this as you can probably tell by the way I’ve droned on but I’m convinced that not every customer that walks in is mine. If they just want cheap, they’re not my client.
-
Great topic and it just goes to show how much we all face exactly the same issues. I’ve been running my business for almost 25 years now and I still struggle with this. Only the other day I had a facebook enquiry that simply said “Price for transit high top”. That was it, no other information what so ever. The same message was probably sent to every other sign business in the area. Hopefully they all did as I did and ignored the bastard…
-
Kevin what you say makes sense.
We’re going through a similar process, concentrating on the better customers, and delivering better service. There’s an abundance of other sign companies who can fight over the scraps.
Trouble we find is getting face to face, we’re having a change of tact, and trying to steer away from email, and push towards at least a phone conversation.
Sounds like you’ve a got a decent system in place, and it works 👍
-
@KevinMahoney – From reading your replies, I’m assuming you do some artwork before taking any form of deposit?
-
I usually get a brainwave on a job & can mock it up fairly quickly but won’t spend more than 20 minutes on it just to get them committed. Once I quote & get an acceptance, I take a deposit & then fine tune the design & send for sign off. They don’t get a copy until I receive a deposit. This won’t work for you if they aren’t coming in though, maybe a visit out to them to show on a tablet?
-
-
It isn’t perfect David, just how I prefer to do it. Maybe I’m lucky that there doesn’t seem to be a shortage of enquiries so I can pick & choose to a degree. If work is thinner on the ground in different parts of the country, the approach will have to be different. The safest option I would advise is to have a basic livery option (small, medium & large, bronze, silver & gold design types) but clearly specify what they get for the price. If they want a budget price, they get a budget job but still to a quality. A more involved bespoke design will go into a higher price bracket dictated by their available budget. I’m not too proud to do a van for £200 but they won’t get the best of me for that, the get a kind of ‘Sign Here Lite’ , still half decent but not too involved, & certainly not taking any amount of my time. It’s a bit of a standing joke at my place where customers come in & say ‘you’ll probably say no but I was thinking this…’ I’m definitely regarded as a bit of a snob with this job, I insist on a good quality job whatever the budget, but will only go so far down the scale where it doesn’t make sense to do it, let someone else do it & risk their reputation if they have one anyway.
-
I’m in total agreement Kevin.
I’ve no interest and passion in doing £99 signs, but good idea on the the fixed price basic livery option, it can get people through the door then upsell from there!
As to going out seeing customers, stuff that, I am not doing a ‘free’ design, then chasing round after them, they can come to the unit in exchange for the time I’ve spent. If they like it, they’re paying for it.
-
Good order mate, that’s my view on it anyway. You’re based in Manchester I believe? How is business up there at the minute? Booming or worrying? Not sure how I’d approach your problem with nobody wanting to come in to discuss a job, my sales are normally always conducted in my office so I’m in the driving seat, out in the world with a tablet & it’s a different story as you could appear desperate
-
Aye Manchester based – It’s a bit bumpy, last month we were nice and busy, this month has died a death, but still enough to keep us going.
We’ll change tact and try and get customer to come in, no more giving from prices over the phone or email, come in for a free consultation, select colours, etc and we’ll go from there, if they can’t be bothered they can go elsewhere. We’re not on a main road, but on small industrial estate so don’t get much passing traffic.
-
It works for me, got to be worth a go if only to separate yourselves from the jobbing sign companies just acting as guns for hire, a more discerning sign company for a more discerning customer
-
“The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result.”
We do OK, but a few other local sign companies I know praise our work, the general consensus is we could be charging more. I really want to be doing more ‘wow’ work, instead of the usual. Not just for the money, but just because I enjoy it more.-
i think a lot of us feel the same, “more wow work”. Not only does it give you more interest and satisfaction, it is also great advertising for your business and leads to repeat work. I believe this is what kevin has nailed, he has gained a portfolio which sells itself 🤝.
-
-
-
-
-
-
Honestly, if my numbers come up on the lottery, I’ll do this for free. It’s no bed of roses believe me but on the whole, we get paid to do art every day & it still blows me away every day after painting my first sign for a corner shop 40 years ago at the age of 11. I’ve picked up lots of advice from some very sharp operators over the years, ignored a great deal of it to my cost but some of it stuck & we do ok & we’re still smiling. My customer base has grown over the years & more or less all stay on board. Yes, I’m pig headed & snobby, considered amusing by some, others think I should be on some autistic scale or a register of some kind but I do this to suit me, not some bloke fishing around for the cheapest of the cheap. Move on, find proper clients & take care of them & remember 20% of your clients probably give you 80% of your profits
-
Reading your post Kevin I see some similarities. I’m often preaching to fellow sign makers, how I operate to filter out the some of the headaches. Today was one who’d booked and installation in, but the customer hasn’t paid – No money, No booking, not worth loosing a days work.
We do OK, we could do better, but I’ve no aspirations to be employing staff, and turning over millions. I quite enjoy going home early, and telling the odd customer to foxtrot oscar.
-
Exactly mate, I’m quite happy with how my workshop runs, not perfect but what’s perfect?
I do what I like most of the time, I’m a bit precious & anally retentive but for good reason in my view, my place, my rules, if I take on your project, I’m doing it how I think it should be done & I think the majority of my customers recognise this now & just cave in for an easy life. Did a makeover on a very dated greengrocers the other day, client had a quick chat to say roughly what he wanted to spend but other than that, had no say on what was happening. I apologised nearing the end of the install for being so pushy & was told ‘no problem at all, we know you’re passionate about your work, we’re quite happy to just let you get on with it’
My perfect customer
-
HOUSEWIVES CHOICE! wow thats not very PC in this day and age 😀
-
Hence the rebrand mate, the housewife no longer has sole responsibility for grocery shopping, however, I’ve never bought any of that green stuff myself
-
-
-
As Phill says, great topic. I’ve been busy the past week so haven’t contributed much on UKSB. ill chip in on this one soon.
Log in to reply.
