customer asking for a quote with a final layout supplied

[David McCarroll]

Usually when this stuff arises it always makes me question the customer in general, by this i mean i wonder if the other company has fobbed them off because they are problematic.

In this situation, I’d quote the work as a normal job and possibly a bit on top to deal with any grief.

One thing to remember is, We always complain about ‘certain’ customers or these type of enquires but im sure there is many customers out there that fall foul of a bad sign maker occasionally and sometimes they are just shopping around for good service and not a cheaper price.

[Hugh Potter]

These days if it happens I suggest to them that unless they own the copyright for that design / layout, ie. purchased it from the people who designed it, that neither I, or any other sign maker should be quoting on that design. I offer to do an alternative design if they’re not happy with it but stipulate that design comes with a cost.. usually I don’t hear back from them.

Something I do use on all of my watermarked proofs that go out is the following

"No unauthorised distribution or reproduction of these images without written consent from Dragon Signs.
If any of the design, layout or content is used without payment or consent, consultation & design time accrued will be invoiced at £40p/h.
Additionally, a £200 copyright release fee, or £150 per use** of design will be invoiced – whichever the greater.
** ‘per use’ means each vehicle, print use, embroidery etc.
Upon completion & full payment of the job, design time & any logo design fee’s, copyright transfers to the customer.

I have enforced it a couple of times when the cost was a lot less, and I’m about to enforce it now on a guy who I designed a logo for, we agreed no logo design fee on the basis that I would be doing several vans, a unit sign and lage hoarding in the coming months.. I got one small order for business cards and he’s now just had the second van done with another competitor.. all the while owing me for two invoices a year ago, yet chasing me for an invoice for some work he did for me a couple of months ago.. I’ll be paying his invoice, minus two lots of ‘per use’ fee’s and the couple of hours design time. I’m tired of people taking the mick now and just get on with it..

[Martyn Heath]

Well confronted him about it and his side of the story is he didnt have much faith in the person doing the job, something about ordering the wrong colours. Not sure how much of that i believe.

[Joe Killeen]

Hi Martyn
What I do in these cases is do a quesstmit on what they showed me plus artwork cost plus 30-40% depending on mood.
If you get the job it’s worth doing but most times they go with the company who done the artwork.
It’s not nice when you do artwork and a few weeks later you see the job done by someone else.
Joe

[Phil Davies]

quote Joe Killeen:

Hi Martyn
plus 30-40% depending on mood.

We call that "Twat Tax" 😀

[Martyn Heath]

:smiles: well that tax should be used on most of my jobs then.

[Robert Lambie]

If someone hands you an existing design, simply quote them on the info and roughly same coverage of vinyl, print etc.
A ballpark figure can be given pretty much there and then and you will be able to gauge the customer by the response they give.

Anything you give out should clearly be branded with copyright info, terms etc. But that isn’t going to eliminate the problem.

The key is not to give out the artwork in the first place… easier said than done, i know.
Do not offer to email the customer artwork, Nor offer to print it off. Every conversation must encourage them to come in and see the design, were quick colour changes etc are instant and speeds the whole process up.
If they say "can you not just email me?" then you say "yes no problem, but we require a deposit before we can do that".
Here, they will pay the deposit or will pop back in. If they don’t, they never were.

Where your next issue comes in is where do you draw the line on the design process? because reality is, your only offering the general layout of van graphics, which if required, incorporates their logo, which they should have provided in a usable quality and format. If it is much more involved, then you must loss your cost in the overall van price, or outline extra costs will be incurred after ex-amount of time spent on the design.

in short, you are never going to fully protect yourself, but you can minimise it happening.

[Daniel Evans]

Very good advice Rob.

[Iain George]

Most people come to me with a basic logo for their van and just want a bit of text.
I offer the basic outline with that sent as a really low jpeg. I then state in my conditions that I am happy to move text and numbers around within reason but if there are to be major changes then these may be chargeable.

[Kevin Flowers]

Best thing is to get to know the other local signmakers, when i got customers come in with someone elses design i would make a couple of calls and either come back with higher price or say yeah it can be done but has so & so gave you permission to use their design.Have also had it work in my favor when other sign maker has said it was something he wasn’t too worried about. Working together is far better than working against each other

Kev