cscs cards update

[Phill Fenton]

What a helpful bunch. 😆

Try asking them the same question but substitute “Signmaker” for “signwriter” and see what they come back with.

Evasive set of critters 😉

[John Singh]

Yes Phill 🙂

I thought that the terminology was a little suspicious and well selected. 👿

Maybe we ought to do just that.. change it to ‘signmaker’

John 😀

[Fat Bob]

Hi Lads

Forget bsga forget cictb or what ever go direct to cscs which is in fact a company which is administering the card program

will be in touch later.

[d dunthorne]

Thanks for that info. Would appreciate more details on this company which is called CSCS. I thought that CSCS was just the name of the scheme.

Regards

Don Dunthorne

[d dunthorne]

Further to my last note, I thought that CSCS stood for:

Construction Skills Certification Scheme.

Regards

Don Dunthorne

[Fat Bob]

hi guys ok here we go

The clasification is sign installer

The Qualifications are Trainee / Blue card / Gold Card

You only need a few things to comply to get your card first you have to have or take a health and safty test.

The central Registration tel no for this is 0870 6004020

They will then arange for you to take the test at a local driving theory centre near you It will cost £35 ( vat ?)

They will send you all the paperwork that will also contain a booklet that has about 1500 Questions and answers the test which is of the multiple choice of which will be 35 questions randomly selected from the 1500.
JOB Done

Applying for the card which costs £20 (vat ?) Depending on your experience you can up until 18-02-05 Have some one you have worked for
or sub contracted to vouch as to your qualifications and that is all you need to obtain a card.

There is another route this will cost you in the region of £485 – 550 To Be assesed in the work place for nvq level 2/3 which is the route you will have to take after 18-02-05 if you are working or subbing on a regular basis to a contractor who is citb registered they can apply for a grant which covers a fair chunk of this cost.

If you need more information on this contact your local CITB office
Who should be able to put you in to your local cscs person

Local CITB office nos

Scotland North 01463 222893

Scotland East 0131 443 8893

Scotland West 0141 810 3044

North East & Cumbria 0191 5163900

North West 01744 616 004

Yorkshire & the Humber 0113 252 1966

Midlands 01509 610 266

Wales 01656 655 226

East 01582 727 462

Greater London 01732 467 300

Southern Counties 023 8062 0505

South West 01392 444 900

Hope this helps you to unravel what you need.

[Fat Bob]

Hi Don Further to your post

CSCS Limited
PO Box
Bircham Newton
Kings Lynn
Norfolk
pe31 6xd

http://www.cscs.uk.com

Tel.01485 578777

Please note that the web site has not been updated with new catorgories yet

[d dunthorne]

Many thanks. Bob

Regards

Don

[John Singh]

Thanks Bob

For all your hard work in supplying this additional valuable information
Much appreciated

John

[Martin Pearson]

Thanks for the additional info Bob, I had all the contact details and had had a look at their website but I had no details on costs, classification, routes to quallification etc. Much appriciated. If I start saving now I should just about have the £550 required by 2005 !!!

[d dunthorne]

I have been working with the BSGA in developing industry specific criteria for a CSCS card for sign installers. Perhaps you might be interested in an update on the present position. The following note has been agreed with Peter Tipton of the BSGA.

The CSCS Card

These notes concern merely the basic requirements for the CSCS card. They do not go into detail on the various grades of card, which vary from that for a skilled sign installer to that required for an occasional site visitor.

The BSGA has held discussions with the CITB concerning the Construction Skills Certification Scheme (CSCS). As a result of those discussions, a broad list of requirements for a sign installer has been agreed. Provision of an industry specific scheme has been found necessary because many of the major construction companies and their clients have decided that contractors will not be allowed onto building sites unless they are competent in site safety matters and can show a card certifying that are so competent.

The scheme is currently limited to sign installers since it is not anticipated that sign maintenance engineers will normally visit major construction sites.

There are basic health and safety requirements. These are covered by the general requirements of the CITB are are set out in the list of questions sent to applicants (this was mentioned in earlier notes on this site). However, these do not cover safety items that are specific to sign installation and, for this reason, the BSGA has set out the broad list of sign specific items mentioned above. The list also covers items on the safe installation of neon and low-voltage signs. As you probably know, the former are specified in EN 50107, which is specifically directed at sign installers. This list is included on the back of the form sent out by the CITB to applicants.

It is appreciated that many sign installers are competent in safety matters because of long experience. In the initial stages of the scheme, the management of a sign installation company will be able to sign the form on behalf of an engineer, indicating the known competence of that person. this does not eliminate the need to satisfy CITB on the broad health and safety requirements but it does mean that specific sign installation items can be signed off by the employers.

Of course, the items listed on the back of the CITB form are merely the broad outline of the requirements. Full details of what is required will be issued to their members by the BSGA, who will also be running seminars concerned with interpreting the requirements. In due course, it is anticipate that associated colleges will be including these requirements in appropriate NVQ courses.

Hope this makes sense.

Regards

Don Dunthorne

[Phill Fenton]

quote d dunthorne:

It is appreciated that many sign installers are competent in safety matters because of long experience. In the initial stages of the scheme, the management of a sign installation company will be able to sign the form on behalf of an engineer, indicating the known competence of that person. this does not eliminate the need to satisfy CITB on the broad health and safety requirements but it does mean that specific sign installation items can be signed off by the employers.

So does this mean that the sole trader (who is both Manager and installation engineer) will be able to sign of his own work to indicate that he is satisfied that he is competent at what he does? – Or will it only be larger companies with a number of employees that will enjoy this “loophole” 😀

[Martin Pearson]

Phil, I dont think you are taking this seriously enough.
You should be asking sensible questions like. “How often does the management attend an installation with the engineer to ensure he is competent and observing health and safety regulations.”

[d dunthorne]

Many thanks Phill for that query. I guess that no one has thought of the situation of a sole trader. There are also many other small companies who have just a few installers, all of whom are working on site. It could become a mutual admiration society.

I will raise this with my colleagues and let you know what transpires.

Regards

Don

[Phill Fenton]

Oh gosh, fancy the BSGA not thinking of that one 😉

[Fat Bob]

Well Done phil

Thanks for alerting everybody to the place where I have been trying to place everyone. and at the moment this is the the case for 2 years and now that the BSGA are going to look At this loophole for us Wont That be great. Does no one including the citb think that this is all the building trade has been doing for the last 2 years is signing off thier own guys.

Does anybody think that all signfitters are registered electricians.

Are all Neon Fitters Gorgi Registered after all they are Handling Gas You Know.

I Dont want to slag anyone in person off 😆 but did the bsga think they could run this Whole scheme forthemselves or thier members

Does the citb think it will make a real difference when their are sites that still dont have to be controlled by them

Who are the directors of cscs ltd. Dont supose that any of them are in trade unions governing the building trade by any chance

Talk about Jobs for the boys well well

The Trouble is that as per usual is the Bsga Which is kind enough To Look After The Likes of us poor signwriters is they missed the boat as usual
They should have got of thier backsides and started thier own scheme
as this problem was discovered 3 years ago and then affiliated thier scheme with CITB then we would not be in this mess.

All we would have to do is join the Bsga And they Could Have Help us all
Through these Trying times. Course I dont now what they would charge to sort this out.

Please note that the views above are my opinion and not Those of uksignboards

[John Singh]

Does the BSGA have blinkered vision and presume that all Sign firms are all large consortiums (?) 🙄 🙄

John

[Mike Brown]

…most independant signmakers know that the bsga both looks and sees only as far as it wants to…

“…there are none so blind as those who do not wish to see…” 😉

more soon

mikethesign

[Robert Lambie]

Don…
Do you have an E-mail contact for the BSGA?
If so, could you e-mail me it and I will invite them to the site to answer some questions on this issue & a few others for that matter. I don’t mean we want to have a slanging match, that’s not what the boards are about. I just feel it would be good if they could visit and see/read our opinions first hand. Maybe get involved in some of the discussions. If they are all for the “small” as they are for the “big”, then maybe they could advise or explain how they come to their decisions.

[John Singh]

‘ere’ere’

John

[Fat Bob]

“eye eye”

[Martin Pearson]

Robert, e-mail contact for BGSA is: bgsa@u.net.com. The Directors name is Peter Tipton.

[John Childs]

Looks like more work for you guys because there is no way I am getting involved in yet another barrowload of bureaucracy.

[d dunthorne]

Dear friends,

Gosh, this subject does seem to have generated a lot of heat.

Firstly, the email address of the BSGA is bsa@sign.u-net.com.

The Director (as I expect you all know) is Peter Tipton. I am not a member of the BSGA but am employed on a part time basis as a technical consultant. I am more than happy to act as a go between passing on information to their Technical Committee, of which I am a member. We have a meeting of that committee next week and this subject is on the agenda. Any thoughts and comments I can take to that meeting will be much appreciated.

Whatever some of you may think, the BSGA primarily reacts to the concerns of its members. If my memory serves me correctly, the subject of CSCS accreditation did not arise until about half way through 2002. It may have been around for a lot longer but they were not aware of it.

At about that time, one of the members reported problems on a building site where the site manager had asked to see the accreditation of some sign installers. First enquiries were a little confusing – it seemed to be a requirement without proper legislation that was being run informally by certain large customers. However, once it became apparent that the CITB was involved, the wheels began to move. What I have mentioned on this website is a very small part of the total picture. Full details have, of course, been sent to all BSGA members.

The BSGA will provide information to non-members as well. For example, immediately I mentioned your queries concerning one-man businesses, Peter arranged another meeting with the CITB and the information I gave last time came from that meeting.

Like many of you, I do not want to get involved in slanging matches. If their are queries or genuine concerns, I am more than happy to act as messenger boy (it beats doing the gardening). Keep up the good work.

Regards

Don

[Mike Brown]

…your help and views are much appreciated Don – as always… 😉

we’d rather you were here too – and not doing the gardening!

cheers!

more soon

mikethesign