Council Regulations

[Alex Wilson]

Hi Warren

With regards to materials you can design with whatever materials you like but getting permission for it is another matter. Usually councils will approve designs & materials that blend in with the architectural design of the building also you will have more luck getting permission for brass swan neck lights than an internally lit lightbox as the overhead lighting is more pleasing to the eye (even if we all know the don’t last more than a year before they look tarnished)
Contact the planning department of the council you need to apply to. They normally are fairly helpful and if you provide a decent working drawing and inform them sizes, materials and illumination if needed then you should have no problems although this will normally take 8 weeks!. Might also be worth taking a digital picture of the shop and superimpose the design on top and send that in as well.
Do not forget this all takes up your time and should be charged for. If you need any further help please feel free to ask.

Best Wishes

Alex

[Russell Spencer]

if you are replacing an existing sign of similar size and specification then the original planning consent is deemed sufficient.
You only need to start worrying about materials if it is a listed property and protected.
There is a guide you can obtain from the council about advertising consent, its a bit long winded but you can design a substantial sign within certain guidelines that does not need planning permission.

[Alex Wilson]

Just a quick add on to my previous post. Technically any sign over 1m square needs planning consent from the relevant planning department. And as a signage professionals it is our responsibility to inform the customers of the regulations for planning which also covers us in the event of problems arising. Also just because you are replacing an existing sign with like for like do not presume the previous owner had permission for his or her sign. One of my customers spent in excess of £3000 on a set of neon lit letters which we advised he needed planning consent for but he did not apply as he needed to open quickly. We installed the letters and were told by Bromley council to remove all signage within 14 days. (Now gathering dust in my premises) They then would only give permission for wooden letters and brass swan neck lights. Looked very poor and he learned a expensive lesson. Every shop we have done for him since has planning consent first.

Best wishes
Alex

[Peter Normington]

planning consent is a minefield, I always make sure the client is aware that it is their responsibility to obtain any consent. That is the end of my responsibility, full stop. After that I will supply what they ask for,
I leave the planning apps to people who specialise in that area, and have the insurance to cover if their advice is wrong…

Peter

[Warren Beard]

Thanks for the responses guys

There is no existing sign at the moment and the customer is going to apply for permission from the council.

I was just concerned that It would be rejected because of the materials I had chosen and the customer would have been p1ssed off. I have since phoned the council who told me that almost any type can be put up but the position of it now becomes an issue.

There is no room above his shop windows for a sign so it needs to go on to the brickwork above the shop which is below an upstairs window, this might be a problem but will submit pictures with the application so should get a quick answer.

Peter, I was looking back at an old post of yours where you used returns and 3mm Dibond (I think ukanuba) Would it be advisable and cheaper to use this for a 3m X 30cm fascia apposed to an aluminium tray?

Thanks

Warren

[Peter Normington]

Dibond is cheaper than ally. But the labour to make the tray has to be considered, if you have the room and equipment to route and bend the dibond, then you will save a few quid, but you do need to balance the cost of buying in a powder coated ally tray, as opposed making your own from dibond

Peter

[Warren Beard]

Hi Peter

I thought the returns would avoid having to route and bend or am I very confused. Am I correct to presume the returns form the sides of the tray?

I was thinking of ordering in the Dibond pre-cut and simply gluing the returns on and joining corners to make a tray, then fix to wall with aluminium angle bars as you would with an aluminium tray?

Tell me if I’m wrong and I will forget it and go with the aluminium tray.

Thanks for your help

Warren

[Peter Mindham]

Hi Warren
We always bend the di-bond to form our trays. I have had little experience gluing the returns on but would expect this to be a weak area in the construction? I may be wrong. We have found generally, bending di-bond is more cost effective than powder coating. Just our experience.

Peter

[Warren Beard]

Hi Peter M

That is what I thought but I saw Peter N did one and thought it might be a cheaper alternative (and it is as you mentioned)

BUT

I am not in the position yet to be able to do the routing so wanted to buy it in and "build" without routing, cutting and bending.

I think I will go with the aluminium tray for this one then, maybe the next smaller one I do I will use returns.

Thanks again

Warren

[John Childs]

Warren, it depends on whether you have the equipment all set up and ready to go, plus the time to do it yourself. And can you be @rsed with it.

For ourselves, although we have the kit, the time required to set it up and break it down afterwards, plus clearing up the mess it produces, makes it much more economical for us to order a ready made tray from the likes of Ashby Signs.

Sign arrives, unpack and lay out, bish-bosh with the graphics and re-pack. Then on with the next paying job.

We love ’em.

[Lynn Normington]

another alternative is returns from smp looks like a tray , for dibond or derivatives, no messy messy routing, and does the business. 😀

Lynn

[Warren Beard]

Hi John

I have to agree 100%

I will be going with the Aluminium Tray so saves the hassles which I don’t want or need.

Cheers

Warren

[Dave Harrison]

Warren I think you mean SMP’s returns ? ( an extrusion which is glued to a sheet of dibond or like )
I’m sure these would be fine ( although I haven’t used them myself ! )

Once you’ve made your tray, fix ali angel to the wall then fix your tray to that !

Coming back to the topic and I don’t want to hijack your thread but how do banners get treated by the council ? ? I have been told that if they are temporary signage they don’t need planning consent. . but would this be true of a couple of 6m x 3m banners on the side of a warehouse ? :lol1:

[Peter Normington]

Sorry, Im the confused old git again, for the ukanuba signs I used smp returns, they are easy to do, all you need is a good mitre saw. hand or electric

and a bit of tuff stuff or equivalent
it cost around 18quid for a 6m lengh
+ post etc

Peter

[Warren Beard]

quote Lynn:

another alternative is returns from smp looks like a tray , no messy messy routing, and does the business. 😀

Lynn

Hi Lynn

These are what I was talking about in earlier posts, is it as simple as that? Buy in dibond to size required and correct lengths of returns, glue dibond into returns and join edges, job done! and then fix to wall same way you would an aluminium tray?

That would be do-able if it would save a few £££

Thanks

Warren

[Nicola McIntosh]

quote Peter Normington:

Sorry, Im the confused old git again, for the ukanuba signs I used smp returns, they are easy to do, all you need is a good mitre saw. hand or electric

would that be the stuff you kindly gave me a sample of peter? 😀

nik

[John Childs]

quote Warren Beard:

That would be do-able if it would save a few £££

Don’t forget who you are working for.

If it increases your profit then fair enough, but don’t go to a lot of time and effort to save your customer money.

[Warren Beard]

Oops, yes I am talking about the SMP returns, I thought it was a standard term so never said "SMP", sorry for the confusion folks.

Dave, I am not 100% sure about banners but they do refer to it as "Advertising" ans not "Signage" or something similar so I would think any long term banner would need same approval from the council………………..but I could be wrong, I’ve only been in the UK 18 months and all this council regulations are very confusing still.

I gave my local council a call and they were very helpful and friendly, hope yours will be too if you give them a call.

Cheers

Warren

[Warren Beard]

quote John Childs:

quote Warren Beard:

That would be do-able if it would save a few £££

Don’t forget who you are working for.

If it increases your profit then fair enough, but don’t go to a lot of time and effort to save your customer money.

Hi John

That’s exactly what I am trying to do, increase my profits. I have quoted an estimated price to the customer so if I can find a decent cheaper alternative then it means more profit for me 😀 😀 🙂 🙂

Thanks

Warren

[Lynn Normington]

yes Nik it was 😀

Lynn

[Peter Mindham]

quote John Childs:

Warren, it depends on whether you have the equipment all set up and ready to go, plus the time to do it yourself. And can you be @rsed with it.

For ourselves, although we have the kit, the time required to set it up and break it down afterwards, plus clearing up the mess it produces, makes it much more economical for us to order a ready made tray from the likes of Ashby Signs.

Sign arrives, unpack and lay out, bish-bosh with the graphics and re-pack. Then on with the next paying job.

We love ’em.

I,m with John.
My local supplier will route, bend and glue the trays for a relatively minimal cost. They arrive, we put them together and then go install. It really is easy peasy. We did a 24 8×4 sheet install before Christmas. Total time in laying up the signs, ( three colours) and installation was three days. (two people) Would have taken more than that to bend the stuff.

Peter

[John Singh]

quote Dave Harrison:

Coming back to the topic and I don’t want to hijack your thread but how do banners get treated by the council ? ? I have been told that if they are temporary signage they don’t need planning consent. . but would this be true of a couple of 6m x 3m banners on the side of a warehouse ? :lol1:

I’ve just had to take a banner down (only 6ft x 17" banner) because the Council nearly had a fit. Interestingly the client had sought planning permission and apparently was granted it. In their opinion it was too big
He had 14 days to get it down