Could anyone tell me if I need corel draw to run flexisign?

[Shaun Gallaway]

Hi
I have corel and flexi and use them both for different reasons. Flexi will run alone without corel.

Flexi is a great package, very easy to use but I find it a little limited in graphic ability which is why I also have corel.

I don’t know about pricing in the UK but Flexi was not cheap here in Oz. However for me while having little experience have found it very user friendly. I also have Roland Colourchoice but find that the rip in flexi performs as well if not better with my printer.

Hope this helps.
Cheers
Shaun

[Robert Lambie]

there are many software packages on the go mate.
as much as i dont like to say it. the flexisign pro package seems to be outdoing signlabs top package due to stability etc. thats not my opinion thats my veiw from reading many peoples (actual users) veiws on the software. having said that. flexisign is more exspensive, but still no reason why signlab wasnt/insnt 100% stable.
signlab 7 is reported to be stable (just released) so hopefully we will see more and more feedback getting it back to its true form.

flexisign does run as a stand alone software.

i rate signlab brilliant! but thats ver 5 rev 12.

both those softwares come in modules that can start out low as a couple of hundred pound and go up into a few grand for top end pro versions.

where to buy?

signlab – you can buy through impact sign solutions. advert on home page.

flexisign – this goes onsale in the “online shop” found on this sites homepage. (thats if i get my finger out and get it loaded) 🙄

casmate – will also go onsale through the site this week. this is the lowest cos, stand alone package that i have heard of so far. ive asked a couple of users for feedback and it seems to be a great startup package. but not being a user of it i cannot comment yet.. i am being sent a demo copy to have a play around with & do a product test on. so ill report back on that.
casmate starts at about £100 goes upto a 3-4 hundred for pro (i think, dont quote me) :lol1:

both flexi and casmate will come with special online purchase discounts from distributors if puchased through this site…

[John Cornfield]

I have been offered a copy of flexisign plus.

What do people think of it?

We run an old version of flexi letter whic has done me fine up till now.

Cheers

John

[Robert Lambie]

depends on price they are wanting and for what version/module i guess john.

make sure you get a dongle too.. 😉

[John Cornfield]

OH Aye!

Will double check that.

Forgot about it.

Cheers

John

[Phill Fenton]

I’m pleased to hear that Casmate is back. 😀

I’ve been using it for 8 years now and thought it had been dropped a few years back when Scanvec merged with another company (Amiable – I think).

It’s re-assuring to hear that other signmaking software continues to be available – this will keep companies like Cadlink on their toes (who think that it is OK to withdraw support for signlab 5 in the expectation that the gullible signmaker will be forced to upgrade to version 6 or 7 to ensure continued support for his business . 🙂

[Colin Crow]

We have been using Flexi sign pro for 8 years and found it brilliant for cutting but limited compared to corel/photoshop for image editing. It has some odd methods of operation which are a hangover from Amicable Inds porting it straight from the Mac version but nothing you can’t get used to. Support from Granthams has always been reliable too.

Recently got Signlabe6 with an edge package and already missing some of the flexi features!

[Robert Grant]

Thanks for all the info guys happy to have learned a little bit more

Cheers Boab

[carlo27r]

i have used flexi for many year and agree its great for cutting but limited for in photo enhancement production manager in 7.5 it very good.

(admin-edit)

.

[David Evans]

Colin@BECC,

I would be interested to know what features you miss in Signlab from Flexi.

Best regards

-David Evans
Printing products manager
Cadlink Technology

[Phill Fenton]

I know this question was directed at Colin, but if you don’t mind David I would suggest Signlab would benefit from having the ability to run multiple windows. (Casmate and Corel draw allow this) which mean you can drag and drop between windows.

I know you can launch multiple versions of Signlab to simulate the same thing, but this means seperate versions of signlab are running which must impose of the memory available and must therefore limit the number of customer files you can open. My version of Casmate is 8 years old and yet I can still open any number of customer files and flip between them all. I honestly believe this is one major improvement that Signlab would benefit from.

(I hope you don’t mind me jumping in here 😳 )

[J. Hulme]

quote rightsigns:

I know this question was directed at Colin, but if you don’t mind David I would suggest Signlab would benefit from having the ability to run multiple windows. (Casmate and Corel draw allow this) which mean you can drag and drop between windows.

I know you can launch multiple versions of Signlab to simulate the same thing, but this means seperate versions of signlab are running which must impose of the memory available and must therefore limit the number of customer files you can open. My version of Casmate is 8 years old and yet I can still open any number of customer files and flip between them all. I honestly believe this is one major improvement that Signlab would benefit from.

(I hope you don’t mind me jumping in here 😳 )

You forgot dropping the support of 5 in favour of 7 Phill.

[J. Hulme]

quote David Evans:

Colin@BECC,

I would be interested to know what features you miss in Signlab from Flexi.

Best regards

-David Evans
Printing products manager
Cadlink Technology

*rofl*
Where do we start………………….. *rofl* MFAO!!!

[Nicola McIntosh]

hi outline!!

this way………off topic, but i won’t be long.. are you from the far east?
just noticed your new flag!! 😛

nik

[J. Hulme]

quote niknaxpc:

hi outline!!

this way………off topic, but i won’t be long.. are you from the far east?
just noticed your new flag!! 😛

nik

Not at all Nik, furthest I’ve been far east is Birmingham, just sick of that George Cross. 😉
Quite liked this one, and I bet Birmingham ain’t even east from where I’m sitting 😉

[Kevin.Beck]

I noticed on the “edge” forum. There was a “wish” list for signlab.

I think it would be a good idea for this forum, as it seems to be the most popular software.

As buyers of this software, wouldn`t it be in Cadlinks intrest to put in features that the end user wants/feels that it would benifit them?????

[Nicola McIntosh]

outline sorry!! 😳

just when i seen the macau!! 😀 i associated yourself with that country as would anybody else!!……..but you are a bit different…so i’ll let you off!! :you:

[J. Hulme]

You saying I’m odd Nik 😉
Not at all, I’m actually very, very nice indeed…..
(angel)

[David Evans]

RightSigns

Signlab 7 uses a process called MI (Multiple Instance) rather than MDI (Multiple document interface). Both are used by Microsoft and they have a system based on your UI on which one to use.

Microsoft use MI in Word, buf MDI for Excel based on the difference of the UI.

Because Signlab has context sensitive palettes such as the job palettes an MI approach is more exceptable. Also by using MI, you can be in the print and cut state with one job, while still working on another job in design view. Something you cant do with MDI.
In fact MI offers lots of benefits over MDI and no real disadvantages.

When programs use MDI or MI, they used whats called shared code segments and it really doesnt make much odds from a memory point of view which approach you take.
For you Info, each MI instance need about 3Mb (thats conservative, look in task manager and its actually less) after that all the memory useage is document based, under MDI we might have got this down, but only by a few 100K at the most.
The code overhead in memeory is really insignificant, its really document based, so we get no benefits from MDI in this respect.

Everyone is used to MDI as it was the origical GUI interface, but you would only lose features and get no real benefit.

If you use dual screen (which is cheap to do now and very productive), you will see how much better MI is over MDI.

Becky

I was the one who organised the wish list for Signlab on 4EdgeTalk and I am always interested in customers feature requests for our software. You are more than welcome to e-mail them directly to me.

I dont think this discussion board has the stickey message, which keeps it at the top of the list so it easy for me to monitor all the requests.

But I do keep an eye out for anyone who posts a message requesting improvments. Thats why I come on this board.

Outline.

Any constructive improvement request, I will be delighted to read it.

Best regards

-David Evans
Cadlink Technology
Printing products manager.

[Phill Fenton]

David – Thank you for taking the time to offer a detailed reply to my “wish list” request. It’s re-assuring to hear that Cadlink are listening to the end users of their products 😀

[J. Hulme]

quote David Evans:

Outline.

Any constructive improvement request, I will be delighted to read it.

Best regards

-David Evans
Cadlink Technology
Printing products manager.

Go on then, I’ll take you up on your offer, we’ll start at the beginning with the absolute damn opprobrious act of dropping support of V5 ?

How does that work, obviously from reputation, when 9 arrives will support of 7 will diminish?
Future end users of cadlinks products should be fully reassured on the investment they ( as businesses ) have made in cadlink products *will* actually be supported in two years time.
As you’re only the printing products manager, I feel you are actually somewhat unqualified to answer this so I will allow the appropriate department to provide constructive input on your behalf.
I too, will be delighted to read it, but I won’t be holding my breath.
( just onto my money )

[Phill Fenton]

Good question Outline – I was wondering the very same thing myself 😉 I am already reassured that Cadlink are listening to the views of their end users so I expect they will re-instate full support of all of their products not just the latest version. 😀

I believe motor manufacturers are required by law to sell spare parts for all their models up to ten years after the model is first sold – how much easier it must it be be to provide software support for a similar timescale. 😀

[J. Hulme]

quote rightsigns:

I believe motor manufacturers are required by law to sell spare parts for all their models up to ten years after the model is first sold – how much easier it must it be be to provide software support for a similar timescale. 😀

With motor manufacturers, it’s called ‘service’.
With software, it’s called greed.

[Colin Crow]

quote David Evans:

Colin@BECC,

I would be interested to know what features you miss in Signlab from Flexi.

Best regards

-David Evans
Printing products manager
Cadlink Technology

To be fair I am still finding my way around am missing some of the shortcuts which probably exist elsewhere but off the top of my head:
Holding CTL key to drag a copy with mouse or cursor
The toggle zoom button
The fly-out menus drive me nuts that you have to click twice (I am starting to customise these now though)
Multi copies menu (e6 version seems a little flaky and always reverts to 1 if any other features altered after)

However, support from Cadlink has been superb (which is just as well as Spandex engineers know very little) and I am sure given another 5 years I will know this software backwards as well!

One serious omission though – I am told that Omega has the ability to slew the print/cut on the edge to align the edge with the plotter but signlab has no equivalent. I am still having problems with alignment of my GS15+ plotter and it has been suggested this may help.

Any suggestions?

Colin

[Tim Shaw]

I have been using Signlab 7 for a couple of months now, and I really do struggle with it. I have used Flexi from version 3 to 7.5, although i stuck with 5.8 as it was the most stable of them all.

Sign lab as a few feature missing that would aid work flow greatly.
One is the ability to set spacing either vertically or horizontally to any dimension, This saves masses of time when nesting up.

Flexi also lets you align many objects using a key commands, i.e opt-4 aligns all selected objects to the left, opt -2 aligns bottom edges etc etc
Therefore with keyboard shotcuts you can align all selcted objects to a baseline with a specified spacing very quickly, find this to be a long drawn out affair with signlab.

One other feature I really miss is the resizing option. In flexi if you resize a complex logo by size it shows you the percentage adjustment. Sign lab doens’t do this.

In practice, if you have a long line of text, all differnet sizes and you need to resize the whole lot based on the height or width of one character. In flexi resize the character, note the percentage and resize the whole lot to that percentage. easy. As SL doesnt show the percentages it all becomes a series of trial and error.

In flexi you can enter a lenght or heigth and both new sizes are shown, all the time.

In signlab you enter the height, then OK it, so you can see the lenght, if it is too long you then have to undo it, and re enter. Flexi shows both H & L at the same time so you can do “what if’s” very, very quickly.

No drag and copy feature,
In flexi press and hold the spacebar to scroll the screen with the hand tool. Signlab takes two or three mouse clicks, unless you have customised the shortcuts.

The align tool in signlab is a real pain. In flexi, if one item is selected it aligns to the workspace, it two items selected, then to each other. all with with keyboard shortcuts.

In signalab it can take three or four clicks to just choose the right settings you need, all trial and error.

The box drawing tool is just the normal selction arrow, so you never know if you are selcting or drawing, why can’t it be a crosshair for drawing, so you can SEE what tool is selected.

There is a real shortage of keyboard shortcuts, why can’t they be customisable. I seem to be clicking selectiosn more times than seems necessary, I just find it “babyish” having to seclect everthing with picture.
Makes me feel like a spotty kid in MacDonalds picking the pictures on the cash machine

Whilst sign lab works well, it does not offer the speed of workflow Flexi does, or used to before V6 / v7 +. It is not a bad or poor program, just needs speeding up for usage.

[Chris Wool]

reading this lot makes me ask why are you spending all this money on this software all you do is moan about it.

chris

[autosign]

Not sure how you can say Flexi 5.8 was the most stable. It was not 32bit code. The new versions never crash for me.

Signlab has a long way to go before it is anywhere near as good as Flexi.

[Colin Crow]

quote mrsticker:

reading this lot makes me ask why are you spending all this money on this software all you do is moan about it.

chris

It came with an edge package and looked a lot easier to use the Omega – although I still don’t have version 7 yet!

[Tim Shaw]

I hear what you are saying about moaning about the software.

I wanted a Versacamm…..the sales person says it needs a PC to run it, they aso insist it runs better with xp. so what do i do become a luddite !!!!.

I was required to buy a PC with Signlab7 and XP. I have used Macs since the MAC plus days. And it was not a route I wanted to take. 12 years of equipment purchases and software investment has gone, just, to run a single printer. Doom III and other mainstream software can run on both platforms so why not a inkjet printer like the versacamm.

I wasnt really moaning, someone asked what the differences are between Flexi and Signlab, if they need to add new features to signlab, then they need feed back from end users.

[autosign]

Sounds like the salesperson was just trying to sell you a complete package, (comission from Cadlink?) Asking you to change the software you’ve been using for years is ridiculous.

[J. Hulme]

quote David Evans:

Colin@BECC,

I would be interested to know what features you miss in Signlab from Flexi.

Best regards

-David Evans
Printing products manager
Cadlink Technology

The Mac version for starters.
That’s quite a large feature I’d say.

[David Evans]

Hello All,

OK, I will try and answer your criticisms as honestly as possible.

Mac,
I am afraid its not going to happen. Mac accounts now for just 2% of the computer market and we from a business point of view cant develop a Mac product and make money from this. We do develop Mac RIP software for OEM customers only and part of the reason for this is we don’t have the support staff to sell the product (so it available to OEM customers only),
To port Signlab is to big a job and would stop us doing other more important development, we priorities what development we do in the same way you have to limit the sort of work you take on.

You seem to have enough to complain about Cadlink as is, over stretching ourselves with a Mac product would certainly only make things worse.

Support for 5.0
I know nothing I say will make the slightest difference, but at some point you have to draw a line in the sand and move on. I don’t see anyone complaining that we don’t support Sign Studio (or what ever the original package was called).
Cadlink decided for good engineering reasons that it was not going to be practical to do any further development with Signlab 5, anything is generally possible with software, but can be prohibitive because of the cost and that’s what happened. Adding printer, plotter and other new device support for new machines in to 5 on all the different operating systems, was just to great.
At the same time we discontinued SL 5 support, Microsoft did the same with Windows 98. How many software companies offer support for software this old.

The analogy to the car industry is a bit on the wild side. You cant compare Signlab to a car, it would be a component in a car. The car is the computer, cutter, printer, your complete solution, everything you need for the job. As a component of a car, for us to support it is like asking us to make a carburettor from a 95 Honda fit work in a Honda just off the production line, do Honda guarantee this.

Discontinuing support for anything is just a matter of time, I can see a great deal of you feel we have dropped support for 5.0 to soon, but unfortunately I cant say this is going to change. There is just a limit to the number of versions of Signlab combined with the number of different operating system versions and types of hardware devices we can expect our support team to manage.

Note: While Microsoft have discontinued Windows 98 support, we have not stopped supporting this OS (although we recommend XP).

Colin@BECC
Can you e-mail me directly and let me know when you got your version of Signlab for the Edge and where from, I will see what I can do to get you up to 7.0.

You also said
Holding CTL key to drag a copy with mouse or cursor
Control-D makes a copy, not sure what you want. Is it that drag and object with the control key it automatically makes a copy. I will be glad to add this as an improvement request if you can confirm its what you are looking for.

The toggle zoom button
Try F9, it toggles between the last two zoom’s

The fly-out menus drive me nuts that you have to click twice (I am starting to customise these now though)
As you said these can be customised and every graphics software from Illustrator to Omega, works with fly-outs. If you have seen a better system, point me at the sioftware.

Multi copies menu (e6 version seems a little flaky and always reverts to 1 if any other features altered after)
I would have to go and check if this was a bug in 6.1 and if its been fixed in that stream. Its OK though in 7.0.

One serious omission though – I am told that Omega has the ability to slew the print/cut on the edge to align the edge with the plotter but signlab has no equivalent. I am still having problems with alignment of my GS15+ plotter and it has been suggested this may help.
This is being worked on.

Tim Shaw

You said
One is the ability to set spacing either vertically or horizontally to any dimension, This saves masses of time when nesting up.
I am not clear what this feature is you are looking for, under Layout->Arrange and Distribute->Spacing there is an option for horizontal and vertical spacing. Perhaps you could e-mail me a more detailed description or I would be happy to call you and discuss this and other features you requested.

Flexi also lets you align many objects using a key commands, i.e opt-4 aligns all selected objects to the left, opt -2 aligns bottom edges etc etc
Therefore with keyboard shotcuts you can align all selcted objects to a baseline with a specified spacing very quickly, find this to be a long drawn out affair with signlab.
Try selecting all the objects and using the Alt key and pressing the arrows and Home and End keys, is this what you mean or is it something else.

One other feature I really miss is the resizing option. In flexi if you resize a complex logo by size it shows you the percentage adjustment. Sign lab doens’t do this.
If you go to Layout->Size / Move->Size it does.

In flexi you can enter a lenght or heigth and both new sizes are shown, all the time.

In signlab you enter the height, then OK it, so you can see the lenght, if it is too long you then have to undo it, and re enter. Flexi shows both H & L at the same time so you can do “what if’s” very, very quickly.
Let me know if the Menu option for Size still doesn’t do this, if you set the length click in the width to see the effect and stay in the size edit dialog.

No drag and copy feature,
This sounds like one we need to add, same as Colin do you want us to copy the object if the control key is held down ?

In flexi press and hold the spacebar to scroll the screen with the hand tool. Signlab takes two or three mouse clicks, unless you have customised the shortcuts.
I will put in a feature request that holding the space bar down makes SL work as if Pan zoom is selected.

The align tool in signlab is a real pain. In flexi, if one item is selected it aligns to the workspace, it two items selected, then to each other. all with with keyboard shortcuts.
Isnt this the same as above ?

The box drawing tool is just the normal selction arrow, so you never know if you are selcting or drawing, why can’t it be a crosshair for drawing, so you can SEE what tool is selected.
I will add this as an improvement request as well.

There is a real shortage of keyboard shortcuts, why can’t they be customisable. I seem to be clicking selectiosn more times than seems necessary, I just find it “babyish” having to seclect everthing with picture.
Makes me feel like a spotty kid in MacDonalds picking the pictures on the cash machine
In Options-Customize shortcuts, you can setup all the shortcuts you want.

Best regards

-David Evans
Cadlink.

[Phill Fenton]

I wasn’t suggesting that Cadlink should continue to develop Signlab 5 – merely that they should continue to offer support for it’s current users. I accept that you can’t continue to offer new drivers etc. but surely you can offer a replacement dongle should this fail. My understanding just now is that I would need to upgrade to versions six or seven in order to get a “fix” if the dongle should fail – perhaps I am wrong?.

[Chris Wool]

tim

how about networking the pc to the macs do your stuff on the macs send as eps to the colour rip on the pc best of both worlds
you then would not have needed dodar 7
just a thought
chris

[Colin Crow]

David

Holding the CTL while dragging to leave a copy is exactly right – use it all the time, however it’s best used with a constrain key (shift on flexi) to leave an aligned copy. It also works with the cursor keys, so holding CTL and tapping a cursor key produces a copy one cursor position distant, in whichever direction was pushed.

The fly outs on programs like Coreldraw for example allow you to hover and release the left button to select alternative. They also allow you to select the shown tool with one click, not two. At the moment to select the text tool i click once on the text tool and the fly-out shows both text and kerning tools, I then have to click the text tool again to select.

I am sure my other issues will be solved once I am more familar with the product but I will email you re version 7 – thanks

Colin

[Brian Hays]

quote rightsigns:

I wasn’t suggesting that Cadlink should continue to develop Signlab 5 – merely that they should continue to offer support for it’s current users. I accept that you can’t continue to offer new drivers etc. but surely you can offer a replacement dongle should this fail. My understanding just now is that I would need to upgrade to versions six or seven in order to get a “fix” if the dongle should fail – perhaps I am wrong?.

Phill, if your dongle goes wrong you will have no problem buying a replacement. It’s costs £75 the same as it would cost if you were running any version.

[Colin Crow]

David,

Re emailing you direct – sorry don’t have your address

Colin

[David Evans]

Hello Colin,

Thanks, I have put in improvement requests for the control key (drag and copy) and the improvements in the way fly outs work.

The control key should be streight forward, but I suspect its a bit late to get the fly outs changed for the next release 7.5, but I will investigate to
see how much work it is.

My e-mail is davee@cadlink.com

Thanks Brian, we will replace dongles for 5.0 users.

As for Mac’s, I come from prepress background and think they are great machines. But most prepress houses who still use a lot of Mac’s, use PC’s to run there image setters and other high end offset equipment. Its a sad fact, but lots Mac users need PC’s to runthere hardware.
Signlab does offer very advanced features in this respect, you can print directly from the Mac to the Print and Cut manager. If the device is a Versacamm (print and cut) then you can print and cut directly from most Mac applications (not PhotoShop as to cut you must have vectors).
If you run an Edge we support linking of EPS files and DCS-EPS files so you can work with spot colours designed in Illustrator or PhotoShop and output these to the Edge as spots.

We dont have software for the Mac, but we do have a number of features to help Mac users design on the Mac using there traditional packages and then use Signlab as a bridge to the devices.

Best regards

-David Evans
Cadlink.