copyright

[Robert Lambie]

hey this wasnt why you put the “C” after you name was it mate 😉 😆 😆 😆

not much you can do these days mate.. covering yourself is always good though just incase.
the fact is.. even if you complain to him he may just take a picture of the sign once its up then use that and never order from you again.
copyright covered and you loss repeat business..

is it really worth the hassle..

it does annoy me to no end though, so i know how you must feel 😡

[Simon Clayton]

True, Robert true,
But i would like to be prepared for next time…Any ideas
Something short but sweet..

[Phill Fenton]

You automaticaly have copyright over any original work you produce. It’s not necessary for you to put this on your artwork – so if you feel strongly enough about it you have a right to ask him to remove it. But if he’s already ordered this sign from you is it worth alienating him because of this?

[John Singh]

Don’t know whether I’d feel angry or whether I’d feel proud to know he likes the sign so much he’s using it on the web for the world to see!!

Think I’d feel narked if he had used my work but didn’t take my business

John

[Simon Clayton]

Good points guys,
But the thing that’s got me is that he had already knocked my price down by around £90.00 and has also saved himself more money not having to pay a web designer.
Don’t get me wrong I’m still making a good wedge out of this, but it’s the thing he never asked.
I have been down to his shop twice to take photos and measure and once to take down the existing signs, all for free.
Maybe I will get more work from him but highly unlikely..
However if I had put on the drawing a copyright, I would ask him to remove the artwork from his web site or pay the extra.
It seams like everybody wants something for nothing these days 😉 😆

Simon

[Damsk]

Hi all,

I’m new to the sign scene and have a background in corporate design (rules, rules, rules….) From my experience in design, I take the rough with the smooth and hopefully on a whole they balance. What if you were to receive 5 more jobs due to people enquiring about the awesome artwork they have seen on your clients website……? Could say wider advertising market creating more potential opportunities for yourself..?

but I do understand where your coming from…..hang in there Simon

😀

[Simon Clayton]

Cheers Damsk,
Fingers X

[Adder]

Hi Simon
Why not contact your client and ask if he’ll put a credit underneath your artwork in return for waiving the copyright ie. “image supplied by Simon C Signs”.

[Martin C]

I can’t quite see where your coming from on this one Simon? I do a lot of stuff for nothing, but we all know it’s really hidden in the cocktail that makes up the final price, whether there are promotional benefits, future sales etc.,

I’d be pretty annoyed if I’d done a visual, didn’t get the order and then saw it on the customers website, but from my experience it’s par for the course that when you take the business you relinquish a certain amount of control over your design.

[Richard Urquhart]

i remember ages ago when i got a new van for my accident repair side of work ,i needed i complete new look to my company and asked a sign company to do something new and in your face which they did the van looked brill i was so pleased i now use the logo and art work for all my cards ,letter heads,etc etc i think if they have used your art work on there web site you should be happy
rich

[Martin Pearson]

I think I agree with some of the comments above, if people are looking at the web site you will now have some free advertising as long as people know it was you that created it.
I think I would use this as a learning curve if you are making a decent profit off the job but mention to the client that you are glad to see he is using the artwork on his site.
In the future you could do what we do now and offer the client the artwork on disk in various formats for them to use on letterheads, business cards, web sites etc. You have already created the artwork so it only takes a few mins to convert to different formats and you can charge what you feel is suitable for this service.

[Simon Clayton]

Cheers everyone,
Good points all round..

I totally agree with Martin C, we all do stuff for nothing, there’s no getting away from that..
However this person could take my design away and open another 10 shops and never use me to do any of them.
I was more annoyed with myself for not protecting it in the first place.

I do a lot of work for a designer whose job and lively hood is coming up with designs such as this… He charges around £60.00 per hour for artwork prep and £35-45.00 designing.
Another friend works for a company up the city (London) with a turnover of around £100m or more a year. Designing don’t come cheap.

The image he has used not a good copy, he scanned it in a low res, so it not looking very good.

What I was after was something to put on my drawing to notify the client he cannot use my artwork for any other use…etc etc . That wouldn’t take up half the drawing.

I’m not sure how many of you out there have heard of “prêt-a manger” it’s a high-class sandwich bar around London; we designed and built the prototype shop, that was all we got.

Thanks again all.

Simon.

[Kevin Flowers]

apply a watermark to your designs company name & copyrited material permissin top be sought etc. You can do this easily witha Epson C80 etc stops people going to other sign shops with your design and satops the visual being scanned. i have recently found designs that i had done for a customer being used in the yellow pages he never paid for the artwork and it was an original design, but i earned my money on the original job but it would 1. be nice to have been asked 2. to have been mentioned as the designer etc. You use a bit of original artwork from the pages and see if you can get away with it.

Kev 😎

[Mike Grant]

Here is the wording I use on my layouts, I got this originally from a Signcraft magazine, where someone had posed the same question.

THE DESIGNS / LAYOUTS DEPICTED HEREIN IS THE EXCLUSIVE PROPERTY OF TREVOR LEWIS SIGNS LTD. AND CANNOT BE REPRODUCED, COPIED, OR EXHIBITED WITHOUT PRIOR WRITTEN CONSENT.
IN THE EVENT THAT SUCH EXHIBITION OCCURS, TREVOR LEWIS SIGNS LTD. EXPECTS TO BE REIMBURSED £40 IN COMPENSATION FOR TIME AND EFFORT ENTAILED IN CREATING THIS DESIGN(S).

COPYRIGHTED 2003
TREVOR LEWIS SIGNS LTD.

This usually does the trick. 😀

[Damsk]

I’m new to the game……

but why not be more determined to improve on designs and when pricing cover cost and time (learning curve). As more people see your artwork out there……..the job’s come rolling in! (well that’s the theory)

Maybe as I gain experience my opinion may change?

(?)

[Robert Lambie]

hi damsk

the biggest problem our trade has with copyright isnt, “we cant design”.
its our designs they are copying/stealing… (!)

we sit designing for a couple of hours.. only for them to go elsewhere and get the same job done cheaper. soo.. incorporating the price in the finished job doesnt really matter if we get undercut whatever price we quote.

its all to easy to beat the guy next doors price if you have been given his design on a plate in the first place. 😕

thanks for joining in damsk… its good to see another thats not afraid to jump in and veiw his point/view. thanks mate & i welcome many more from you! 😉

[Damsk]

Thanks for the Welcome Rob, much appreciated!

I’m finding the site a fountain of information allowing myself to have a REAL insight to the pro’s and con’s of the trade also picking up valuable tips saving hours/years in learning curves.

Thanks to yourself and members for sharing your years of experience, the support that is shown is refreshing and being new on the block knowing that if all goes pair shaped I’m sure someone here would have a possible solution to avoid disaster or you all join in laughing at my expense……….

Look forward to learning loads and avoiding disater, but havin a laugh doing it!

Cheers all

Damsk

[John Childs]

This isn’t a big problem for me, but for those of you for whom it is, wouldn’t a better idea be to charge them for the design work upfront?

The customer will then own the copyright and is at liberty to do all the shopping around he likes. From your point of view you will have been paid for your design work and can compete on a level playing field with your opposition for the work.

As a side benefit, knowing that they are paying an hourly rate for design, might slow down some of the time wasters who do not know what they want until you have spent ages preparing something and then decide that they wanted something else all along. This procedure turns them from time wasters into valuable design customers at a stroke.

[Robert Lambie]

your very welcome mate..
we all have to start some place.. i have many disaster stories from my past and present for that matter 😮

if you have a prob just ask… thats what we are here for…. 😉

[Simon Clayton]

Well put Rob,

The reason these clients come to us for design is they know it would cost an arm & leg from a designer.

I had one person come to me with an artwork done by a designer,
It was for a football coaching company…it cost him around £700.00 and when I asked for him to get the design company to outline the artwork, he said they wanted another £400.00
This design was poor quality, and not very creative, I could have done the same thing for around £70.00 (2-3 hours work)

The work I was doing would have to £400 (some banners & a few Foamex panels)
So if I would have done the design, got the work he would have saved himself £700.00 or there about. He would have used my artwork to do all his stationary everything..
You would truly have lost out.