Change Cadet/Versacamm print heads?

[Nicola McIntosh]

dont do a thing….make sure the company who sold you the machine sort it…..or tell them you will be sending it back……dont back down you are the one who has paid good money for a machine that should be delivered to you in a working state of order…..i have been there and wore the t-shirt…do not give in 😉

nik

[Kevin Flowers]

Hi
even Eco-max inks require the printer to be used & cleaned on a regular basis, yes you can leave the printer for a week at most two but you will end up using more ink cleaning than printing. Head costs are approximately £630 each, 2 in the Versacamm. Was the machine warrantied by the dealer, why will they not repair the machine it helps if full info is given before naming bad service from a supplier.Have you tried to soak the heads & then do a powerful clean. Post some further info & i’m sure you will get some help

Kev

[Said Usuf]

Hi guys, thanks for the replies.

quote :

even Eco-max inks require the printer to be used & cleaned on a regular basis, yes you can leave the printer for a week at most two but you will end up using more ink cleaning than printing.

The Roland dealer actually cited an example where they printed from a machine that had been standing for almost three months without needing to do any cleaning before or after, and says it is not a problem at all if you do not use your Versacamm regularly. I met him at Sign UK and he maintained this position and referred me to another dealer to confirm his claim. I tried following-up the other dealer but he had a string of people he was attending to every time I showed up.

quote :

dont back down you are the one who has paid good money for a machine that should be delivered to you in a working state of order.

quote :

Was the machine warrantied by the dealer, why will they not repair the machine, it helps if full info is given before naming bad service from a supplier.

It’s been three months since I bought the machine and during this period I’ve received four visits from Printmax. It is a long story but the summary is that they supplied me with a faulty machine and since then they have done thorough cleaning of the heads on two occasions but the print quality remains poor with banding across the prints.

I chose to buy a used machine, but I believed buying from an official dealer would not carry the risk of inheriting worn heads as they said they would refurbish before reselling. In fact I went for a demo before buying and the print quality on the demo machine was excellent, but now after three months of having my money tied down while I miss out on sale opportunities, my options are now very limited. They have sold me worn out heads and expect me to now pay them to change it. If I have to pay I’d rather pay someone else.

Alade

[Kevin Flowers]

Alade
ask around & take notice of what owners of versacamms say dealers will tell you what you want to hear. I’ve used printers with ecomax inks in & still had to clean if left sitting around. Can you get into the service menu & do a history test this will tell you how many shots the heads have fired. If this is any where near their max then Printmax should be responsible for their replacement. If you end up changing them at your expense i believe you can do an extended warranty with Roland where they will change Heads, Pumps etc & give you a years warranty. It was £2500 + when i inquired about converting my soljet 2 but did it myself in the end. Keep us in formed how you get on.

Kev

[Said Usuf]

Kev,

I have tried getting into the service menu using the key combinations, but the printer reports that the service mode is protected and goes off.

Alade

[David Rowland]

quote Alade:

Kev,

I have tried getting into the service menu using the key combinations, but the printer reports that the service mode is protected and goes off.

Alade

OMG.. I have heard of the newer type printers coming in with manufacturer or supplier protection.. anoying

[Chris Wool]

hi
when the engineer leaves the premises is the printer working correctly or not.

if not what do they say requires doing to make it print to your satisfaction.

4 visits in 3 months aint right.

i think roland are still doing a special eco sol max conversion inc warranty
as a real last reesort
chris

[Nicola McIntosh]

quote Alade:

but the print quality remains poor with banding across the prints.
Alade

alade, i may be wrong here….but i always thought banding on a machine was down to profile error by the operator, its an easy option to blame the supplier…i did and was told i had chosen the wrong profile to the material i was printing on 😉

nik

[Chris Wool]

yes nik you are right but no amount of profiling will compensate for a head that is not working properly.
rule of thumb is if the printer prints a perfect nozzle print test then its down to profiling.

chris

[Kevin Flowers]

Alade
below should get you into service menu to print our history report, if i have remembered correctly. Your choice if you use it.

Step 1: Down – Right – Left – Up

Step 2: Right – Down – Left

Step 2: Hold Down Right, Down & Left while pushing power button

When main menu appears, push right arrow to enter service mode.

Regards

Kev

[Said Usuf]

Once again I appreciate your insights.

I have a service manual with all the codes and I have tried the combinations but the printer feedbacks that service mode is protected. Dave mentioned that newer printers have this feature but this one is obviously not a new printer.

The banding in this instance is definitely not down to profiles as the Printmax engineers should have been able resolve that I believe. I am now trying to writing a short summary of the whole episode which I will hopefully post in the morning.

This I hope will highlight my experience with this printer and supplier.

[Said Usuf]

I tried to skim on details so as to avoid a long post that no one would read. I have now attempted to put some details into this post, since it will help me get better help and it might help other newbies as well.

Continuing from previous posts, about a week before buying this machine in March I attended a PrintMax demo at B&P office in Chertsey and was pleased with the printing and cutting on the Cadet. When my machine was delivered (not the same B&P one) the engineer spent a whole day trying to run it on Versaworks which involved opening up the back and changing switches on the board to convert it from SP-300 to SP-300v etc. They brought in Versaworks even though my invoice indicated I would get Troop. The explanation was that the machine’s previous owner returned the printer to them with Versaworks so that is what they could supply it with and that Versaworks was just as good.

He could not fix it and left my place after 4pm with the computer still downloading something from the Roland website he said would fix the problem on installation. When the download and installation finished however the computer could still not communicate with the printer. but only generated error message: “the printer and ink type detected differs from the one being used. A software update may be required to use this printer. The application will be closed.” I reported this back to the engineer and he advised as a fix that I would have to be disconnecting the printer from the PC before launching the Versaworks and reconnect after.

I tried this a few times and got some prints but these were poor and wit prominent banding. I got back to Printmax telling them that the print was not good and that I could not accept having to pull out my printer cable every time I wanted to launch the software.

The excuse given was that the person sent to install the printer was not the company’s real engineer but he had come as the real engineer was off on the day of delivery. They promised that the real engineer would come in and complete the installation. The guy came in a week later, opened up the back of the machine to reset the switches, installed ColorRip told me to discontinue using Versaworks.

ColorRip launched without needing to pull the printer cable but it also printed with ugly banding. He explained that the machine came directly from the previous owner and may have been sitting there unused for some time, he cleaned the heads but the banding remained but he assured this would clear after a couple of days of printing and that I should call them if things did not improve in a week.

There was no improvement within the week and I called them back to say so, and another visit was arranged for the following week. It had also became apparent after he left that even though ColorRip started alright, it prompted a re-installation every time the printer was turned on. I reported this said the guy said this was a glitch with ColorRip everyone else experienced.

I could not the day off work on his next visit so I did not witness what happened but when he was about to leave he called and told me there was a problem with the motherboard and he would have to change the motherboard. He disconnected everything and advised that I do not touch it.

A week later on his next visit I again had to be at work but at the end he called and said he had not needed to change the motherboard but had resolved the problem and had made prints from the machine. I discovered later that though the banding was reduced the print was grainy so I tried twitching with profiles and print resolutions but remained unsatisfied. I posted the print by the engineer and one I had made and told them that the printing was unacceptable and unprofessional.

When I did not get a reply after two days I called and was made to speak to the first ‘engineer’ who insisted that the prints were good enough and most of their customers would be satisfied with it. He insisted on talking me through how to improve the prints over the phone but I refused to take responsibility for getting the machine to print right. Their installation should ensure they delivered a satisfactorily working machine to me matching the sample they produced for me at the demo for that was the promise made and the reason I went ahead with the purchase.

As this point I felt I had accepted enough and was completely furious, so I told them I could not take any more of the prolonged installation and if they could not provide me with a machine that matched the quality of print I was shown at the demo then they should return my money and this where things began getting sour.

I decided to seek legal advice and got a lawyer’s letter sent to them. They wrote back in response to the letter saying that they had resolved the problems and implied that the problem was down to me not being able to use the printer and offered to give me free training as a sign of goodwill.

I wrote back telling them that the machine’s performance had nothing to do with user knowledge as the printout was done by their proper engineer and insisted on getting a good machine. They did not write back and I excused this on the grounds that they were now at SignUK where I did see their sales guy who had gone with me on the initial demo. He was a nice chap and assured me they would resolve the problem.

A couple of days later I got a call from their sales desk asking if I needed supplies consumables for my machine. I replied that I was still waiting for a reply to my letter and for my machine issue to be resolved. She got me to talk to the initial sales guy who I’d seen at SignUK and he negotiated a revisit of their engineer. On this visit I took the day off work and he did a thorough cleaning of the heads, but the banding was more prominent than the previous visit and the ‘test print’ button showed considerable gaps in the colours. Even he accepted that the picture quality was poor.

He could not get rid of the banding and as a final shot he said he’d give the heads a long soaking in solvent and advised I let it soak till the next day then try it out again for another week to see if things improve. On the next day the printout nor did it improve after the week, I therefore wrote back to them saying so and since I did not get a reply or acknowledgement to my previous letter sent this one in by next day special delivery.

Two days later my letter was returned back by Royal mail marked refused by recipient.

[Gordon Forbes]

This is not on as far as I am concerned I had same trouble with printmax

Contact the manager of B&P and tell him the story thats what I had to do and it worked for me.
Not sure if the sale of goods act applies but I would certainly try it
Goods not fit for purpose contact your local office and tell em.
Return it yourself and get one from one of the other suppliers B&P Silverskies etc etc. I just wouldn’t take any more of their horse sh*t.
Get a solicitors letter to em spelling out your intentions.

Goop

[Peter Mindham]

I am sure that this machine is not fit for purpose and therefore should be returned. I think that once you had got your solicitor involved, you should have refused to communicate with them directly, only via solicitors letters. I would re instruct my solicitor and keep on him to pursue not only a refund, but also his costs and other costs you have incurred e.g. days off work, travel etc. Document all this and submit it to them via him. Make sure he lets them know you are not going away and you want a refund.

Good luck and keep us all posted.

Peter

[stevie thomas]

Alade

I have seen this more than often with 2nd hand cadets

If the machine has not been looked after by the previous owner then worst case it will be new heads to rectify the print problems if the nozzles have blocked.

I have had a customer where all six heads were blocked but 2 weeks of alot of tlc and soaking did revive them.

Most that i know use the roland colorip ( rebadged Wastach ) with no problems what so ever and using the cadet or grenadier.

Converting back to the origional roland inks is also straight forward.

Using activasol inks you do have to regulary clean the machine i recommend at least twice a week. with the roland inks i recommend a quick 5 min maintanence proceedure once every 4 four weeks.

mod-edit

[Robert Lambie]

quote stevie thomas:

Alade
Using activasol inks you do have to regulary clean the machine i recommend at least twice a week.

i disagree, we have had our grenadier over 3 years now, gets a light maintenance clean (5 minutes at most) on a Friday night when locking up.
that’s as much as you need to do… we even miss it some Fridays if things are hectic… still no problems

yes solvent inks begin to gel if left for 4 days or more. but a good routine to get into is do a light clean when shutting down for the weekend.
i think any printer should be given a general clean regardless to how long some get away with leaving them because the machine can only benefit from it.
spray painters have to thoroughly clean their guns every colour change, sign writers do same with their brushes and so on… for us to think we are buying a £10k or £20K machine and expect not to have to look after it is silly. 8/10 solvent users with issues are normally down to negligence of some sort, or the machine just hasn’t been used in so long…

[Frank Horner]

Hi

Just wondering where you are based as I recently traded my Cadet to Printmax for a used Grenadier.

I got my fingers burned with the cadet as once it was paid for no one wanted to know about any problems, always pointing the finger somewhere else.

With the grenadier I trade the cadet and lease purchase the balance. I had to sign a certificate of acceptance before they would pay printmax.
When they delivered it was incomplete, dirty and not performing to standard, so no signature. When they said the work would be carried out and would I sign I refused and told them if they were not happy they could take the machine away, I continued with this stance until I was satisfied. I had several calls from the leasing company to check on matters and they were advised of my stance and were fully supportive.

Please PM me as I would be interested to discuss further with you.

Frank

[Said Usuf]

Thanks mate, will be PMing you.

My error of judgment was to sign and pay based on promise alone. The sales guy as I said was naturally nice and reassuring but unfortunately I am bit. I tried contacting the Managing Director at BP as advised on the board but he was not at work today. Will try again tomorrow and will keep the board posted on progress and hope no-one else will have to go this route.

[Said Usuf]

Hello Guys,

I promised to update you on outcome of this issue.

Well I contacted the managing director of B&P and he promised to get his Sales Director to investigate. A week later I got the email below from his sales director and unlike Printmax they lived up to their promise and today my printer is working like new. I am stick stuck with a faltering RIP since that was not done today but I will contact them and believe this will be sorted as well.

Thanks to all you guys for your advice and support, and particular thanks to Frank who was very encouraging and then volunteered to drive across London to come and see how he could help sort me out.

B&P wrote:

quote :

Thank you for contacting us regarding your concerns over the print quality of your 2nd user Cadet printer bought recently from PrintMax.

I am sorry to hear that you have had problems and as you are aware from your demonstration, the Cadet is a high quality and reliable printer.

Having looked into the issue I would like to suggest we do the following:
• B&P Engineers visit and assess the quality of the print heads. If they are found to be faulty we will replace them.
• At the same time we will upgrade your pump mechanism so that your printer has the latest cleaning facilities.
• We will check and upgrade or replace (if needed) the Dampers, Capping Station, Firmware and RIP software.
• We would like to do all of the above on Monday 9th July.

In addition, if the printer is not likely to be used on a regular basis we would recommend changing the inks to our DuraSOL Lite system. This can be done at the same time if required.

All of the above will be carried out by B&P Engineers at our cost. I would appreciate if you could confirm that the above is acceptable to you and Monday is a convenient day.

In the mean time if I can be of any further assistance please feel free to contact me directly.

Yours sincerely,

[Michael Tremarco]

quote :

My error of judgment was to sign and pay based on promise alone. The sales guy as I said was naturally nice and reassuring but unfortunately I am bit

quote :

Awgh Awgh!
I am just about to do the same thing with the same company this week. They have already changed the printer I was originally going to get citing that it was no longer available. Now they have just offered me a VersaCAMM SP 540.
Good advice not to sign the leasing company agreement until unit is working correctly in situ. I will take that on board and will not sign until satisfied.
Thank god for such a great resource like the boards.