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Can you use foamex outside or do you need to treat it?
Can you use foamex outside or do you need to treat it with something?
The customer wants the option for a cheaper material than Dibond because he doesn’t want to pay £280 for a 5ft square sign. It has to face up to the elements.
Any Ideas, Thanks
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21 Replies
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Yes foamex is fine for outdoor use you need at least 5mm
Lynn
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its ok but not ideal. definately dont use the coloured varieties as they will fade alot. make sure you oversize holes to allow for expansion.
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Tell him you get what you pay for as said foamex in a frame works although not ideal
John
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I wouldn’t use less than 10mm myself and would always seal the edges.
Agree with John best in a frame to help with expansion contraction etc. Probably end up same or more cost that Di Bond.Peter
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No don’t use foamex it will go brittle in a matter of months and fade if using colours and if you just screw it to the wall it is likely to crack across the screw holes due to the high expansion/contraction rate. If you cost in the frame you just as well use dibond. Penny wise, pound foolish.
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quote nnsg:It has to face up to the elements.
You can’t have champagne at beer prices.
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quote Mike Grant:No don’t use foamex it will go brittle in a matter of months and fade if using colours and if you just screw it to the wall it is likely to crack across the screw holes due to the high expansion/contraction rate. If you cost in the frame you just as well use dibond. Penny wise, pound foolish.agreed! 😀
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I have had a foam type sign outside, hanging from a stainless steel post, with screws through it for over a year now, at a B+B it is painted a pastel colour but isnt actually foamex, its way denser, righton call it versalite and its a heavy dense foam compared to foamex, or foamalux, but not sure what else its called by other firms.
it has a shiny plastic veneer each side which is very weather and heat resistant, but as mentioned its a light colour.
Best way to describe it would be 10mm dibond but made from plastic lol. -
quote nnsg:Can you use foamex outside or do you need to treat it with something?The customer wants the option for a cheaper material than Dibond because he doesn’t want to pay £280 for a 5ft square sign. It has to face up to the elements.
Any Ideas, Thanks
maybe I’m missing a trick here.
5′ square of 3mm di-bond (clone) costs YOU £35 tops…5′ square of 5mm ‘foamex’ costs you £20 tops…10mm price basically that of 3mm dibond. So where are you going to be making the significant saving to pass on to him by changing substrates and maintain the same profit level?
I don’t think you can. eg. If you ‘manage’ to drop it to say £180 for a cheap 5mm PVC sign…you’ve just given away £85 profit for a £15 saving to yourself. Same work involved, same materials, same time…I don’t get it.
Me, I’d just stick to the same material and knock a little bit of money off as a gesture and bask in the appreciation… :lol1:
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I had a customer ask me for a quote a few weeks back, said he was on a budget, the sign was to be 6′ high by about 5′ wide with 2 large vinyl cut multi colour lily flowers and a nice script font.
I quoted for white Dibond with multi colour layered vinyl @ £300 fitted seeing as he was on a budget and it was in the main street so a good advert for my work, and also one with a border fo lilies like he wanted (tacky as hell but more work) at £500
which as far as Im concerned as a new business (a restaurant I may add) is about as low a price as anyone would ever spend on their shop front sign.
2 weeks later I hadn’t heard from him so I go to see him, as I approach there is a 3mm foamex sign there covered in cheap printed vinyl, that looked like it had been printed on an old epson color 900 there was so much banding on it, along with his 2 big flowers and the original mono-type corsiva font he wanted which didnt suit at all.
I went in and said Oh I see you had the sign done, started to explain about 3mm didn’t/sun/summer/expansion/screw holes etc etc and was told that a friend had done it and he could replace it two or 3 times for the price I had quoted him, I explained that was fine, he probably will, and no hard feelings.
Some people cannot see practicality over economy, what is the point in swapping something 3 times when you can pay for it once?
Thats mental.
Some people just wont listen, those ones end up with a cheap foamex sign from another supplier other than me. -
I have used Forrex outside with no real issues. I normally use signtrim to house the sign to allow for expansion and contraction. Done this way it’s a perfectly acceptable material. White Forrex reflect the sunlight much more readily than coloured sheets so is less prone to warping.
Coloured matt boards do fade very quickly – so don’t use them for long term signs outdoors. Gloss PVC foamboards are much better however. And coloured Gloss PVC boards are much more resistant to fading.
In recent years dibond type materials (Aluminium/polyethylene) have come down in price and these now make much more sense than fitting a Foamex type of panel in place without any signtrim.
Gloss PVC foamboard (e.g Foamalux Ultra) makes a very good sign when fitted using signtrim and I think is a better solution than simply fixing a dibond type of material in place since there are no visible fixings and the sign trim makes a very attractive frame.
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That’s not good, some people always try cut corners and end up with crap.
Thanks for the advise, but where can you get cloned dibond for £39?
I use amari bond from amari it comes in sheets 2440 x 1220mm 3mm and I pay £63.52 inc VAT and delivery.🙂
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quote nnsg:That’s not good, some people always try cut corners and end up with crap.
Thanks for the advise, but where can you get cloned dibond for £39?
I use amari bond from amari it comes in sheets 2440 x 1220mm 3mm and I pay £63.52 inc VAT and delivery.🙂
That price was for ‘half of a 10×5’ (5×5) – about £65+VAT a sheet for Alucobest
£39 for an 8×4 does exist…I’ve been offered it…it’s just maybe of dubious quality, but as a good budget substrate it’s an alternative to 5mm PVC.
My philosophy has always been – spend an extra £10 on materials and you can sleep at night knowing that £200 job is going to be the best it can be…no come-backs…no problems. Cheap is rarely better…
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ok thanks
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Buy cheap — buy twice
The saying wasnt invented for nothing. 😛
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quote :No don’t use foamex it will go brittle in a matter of monthsQuite simply not true. Colours definately fade and fast, but foam does not go brittle. You can have your reasons for not using it and it has it’s drawbacks but going brittle and cracking around screw holes is not one of them.
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Early foamex materials were only designed for interior use and had no U/V stability, if used outside they went brittle. Modern foamex is a lot more U/V stable but is still only recommended for interior use by the manufacturers. For exterior use they recommend gloss faced pvc.
However I can buy aluminium composite for the same price as gloss pvc so for me its a ‘no brainer’.
If you are still in doubt, speak to your supplier. -
quote Gavin MacMillan:quote :No don’t use foamex it will go brittle in a matter of months
Quite simply not true. Colours definately fade and fast, but foam does not go brittle. You can have your reasons for not using it and it has it’s drawbacks but going brittle and cracking around screw holes is not one of them.
There I am sorry that we will have to agree to disagree. 😕
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‘Cheap’ foam PVC goes brittle. The more you spend – the better it lasts.
it’s all to do with the amount of filler, PVC & plasticizer ratios according to my supplier.
Cheap stuff is more ‘compressed talc’ than actual plastic…so there’s very little plastic to hold together when it does start to go. You know the stuff – the £10/12 for a 5mm 8×4…
From experience – 3 years is about the limit for high UV exposure for a ‘normal’ foam PVC before it is brittle and will snap easily. But can easily last 7 or 8 years if gloss faced or vinyl coated.
Dave
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i have to agree about foamex, or at least that which i have removed from facias, being brittle, the last one i pulled off came down in about 300 pieces. i spent longer trying to remove bits still stuck to spots of glue and nails, than putting the tray up!
i rarely use foamex to be honest, maybe for internal or framed signs, but dibond is just so much nicer to use, imo. i explain the cost differences and the customer will normally go dibond.
one material i have used for a long narrow sign (5m x 400mm), was upvc !! nice 10mm thick material, it doesn’t warp (been up over two yrs now), gloss finish, uv resistant etc. not used it since i found dibond!
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Just to follow this on from this post, when i first started a few years back I was asked to supply my first Big sign !! well I thought it was A 10 x 5 sign, didn’t know to much and ordered a 10 x 5 sheet of black foam ex, with the help of the boards and a chat on the phone with mike brown who was very helpful with the design and fonts I made and supplied my first sign. That was that the customer fitted it and I didn’t get to see it finished, then 3 years on I move out of my old work shop and moved in to a new one above where the supplied sign had been fitted !!!! well although i would not supply a sign like this now as I cant stand face fixings the sign looked ok. Now another 2 years on and having to look at this every day other than a bit or warping in the sun the sign still looks ok, no fading and has done the job very well. I would love to have some time to remove and refit this and I will one day
Rich
oh to the point I hate using it but it can have its uses !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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