can someone tell my why yellow 651 faded so quickly?

[John Childs]

It shouldn’t happen of course, but it might be oxidisation rather than fading.

Try a bit of mildly abrasive car polish on it.

[Martin Oxenham]

No its definately fading….We use 651 all the time and have no problems with any colour except yellow and its exactly as you said, it fades after about 9 -10 months we’ve had this happen on three vans and now only use 751.
We have contacted Europoint on three occasions about this and they just say We’ll look into it and thats it.

[Steve McAdie]

When I used to work for a screen printing sign firm yellow was always the worst for fading. It had something to do with what was used for pigment. Cadmium is what was used in the pigment and is unstable apparently. Not sure if vinyl uses this pigment, maybe a faulty batch.

Steve

[Jill Marie Welsh]

As much as I love 651, the yellow and the red are quick to fade.
I don’t use it on vehicles, I spend about $10 more per roll and go with the 751.
Love….Jill

[Phill Fenton]

As I understand it – 651 is a 3 to 5 year vinyl so shouldn’t fade in only 9 months.

It’s not meeting the specification (i.e 3 year or more outdoor life) so take it up with your suppliers.

[Shane Drew]

quote Jillbeans:

As much as I love 651, the yellow and the red are quick to fade.
I don’t use it on vehicles, I spend about $10 more per roll and go with the 751.
Love….Jill

I only use 651 for temporary work too. Never on a vehicle. Our UV is so strong here, 551 is the cheapest I’ll go, but prefer 751 or similar. 551 will not last much more than 2 years on a bonnet/roof, and its not covered under warranty as in the small print no vinyl has fade warranty on a surface greater than 90deg to the sun (I think – certainly not covered if its flat anyway)

Yellow red and Orange are the three that will fade first, even in cast material, and they are the worse to remove when the time comes.

Had a contract to rebrand a heap of buses here a few years ago. Their logo was yellow, red and orange 😮 a nightmare to say the least…. 👿

[Gareth.Lewis]

Thanks all!

Phill,

That’s what I initially thought, some people might know from experience that yellow is known for fading, but the suppliers advertise the whole range as 4year minimum (that’s minimum), so, as you quite rightly say, they (the suppliers) should be liable. I’m sure they can pass on their feeling to their suppliers and so on.

Now, do I just change like for like, chancing maybe that it was part of a ‘bad batch’ (as nobody else has ever complained/noticed), or do I go with a superior grade vinyl?

Hmm…

[Shane Drew]

Gareth, is it on the vertical surface?

I’ve just checked the warranty, and Oracal advertise it as a 4 year (maximum) service life, on a vertical surfaces. I’ve been down this path before with 3M. If the area is slanted, they can calculate the life expectancy with the increased angle.

A 45 degree surface will not be 4 years, but more like 9 – 12 months.

http://www.oracal.com.au/pdf/651.pdf

Unless its a straight vertical surface, they may not honour your claim. Its in the small print of all tapes – Avery, 3M and Oracal (over here at least)

I’d replace it with a better grade. At least to assure your client it will not happen again

[Gareth.Lewis]

Shane

Thanks for that, very interesting!

The ‘headerboard’ is one that sits proud of the roof of the trailer and when not in use lies flat facing the sky. I imagine it spends 50% vertical when in use and the other in exterior storage lying flat not being used. I would have put it down to that fact but the stripes are on a vertical surface (the walls/body of the trailer) and they have faded too!

So, if I were to swallow and replace the headerboard lettering f.o.c. without making any claim to my supplier, would I have this problem prematurely eventually, even if I used a superior grade vinyl?

Gareth

[Shane Drew]

In a word YES, they will all fade prematurely in the same situation. Any brand will. But, a cast material with a 7 – 10 year life will perhaps fade in 4 years…

I ALWAYS tell my customers that anything not full vertical is not covered by the fade warranty.

That said, if the walls are fading, are they fading to the same degree? If they are, you’ll have a claim, if they are not, then the supplier could argue that its normal wear and tear I guess. If its REALLY obviously faded, they may come at a claim, but if their records do not show that stock number to have other claims, they may, and will, argue that the vehicles ‘use’ may be a contributing factor. A burger van…. not sure what that is, but if it generates excessive heat, they could argue that it falls outside their manufactured guidelines.

Just being the devils advocate here, but I’ve had extensive experience with this situation over the years, having lodged a few claims against Avery and 3M. 3M even flew a scientist up to dispute my claim, but I’d done my homework really well, before he arrived 😎

End of the day, it is still worth a call. The supplier is not going to tell you its a bad batch (if it is) but if you make a claim, they may honor it as a result.

I had a claim against an Oracal digital roll not long ago. I was going to wear it until a rep mentioned in passing that someone had complained about a roll, and as he was the only one that had rung, they dismissed it as operator problems. Realising I had the same issue, I lodged a complaint too. Turns out it was a bad batch, and they replaced rolls of the same batch FOC.

So, may be worth a call. Don’t be surprised if they decline it though. They have lots of small print they can fall back on.

[Gareth.Lewis]

Thanks Shane,

This is what I am going to do.

I am going to replace one of the faded headerboards’ yellow vinyl with the same oracal 651 yellow that is on there now. I am going to keep a sample of the yellow that is coming off now in a dark place to compare it with what I am fitting now in 9-12 months time. I will do the same with a teeny bit of the vertical stripe yellow.

This will enable me to see if it was a ‘bad batch’ or that I need to change the whole lot for a superior grade vinyl. The customer is happy with this explanation and course of treatment.

I will also change another headerboard (he has three trailers, all the same, all fitted at the same time) with the same vinyl but overlaminate it with clear oracal 651 vinyl to see if this helps the fade issue. This may help me to decide what to do when I see both trailers in 9-12 months time.

As for the third, its Friday, I have about twelve months of work to do in the next three days so I’ll worry about that one when my customer mentions it!!

ps I have spoken with my supplier – he’s a good bloke- and he’s been most helpful and supportive and has offered some ‘material’ compensation when it is needed, a sort of gentleman’s agreement if you like.

pps a burger van is the ones we have at outside events here (glastonbury, ascot, formula one, village fete etc) serving beefburgers, hot dogs, chips etc from a mobile ‘box on wheels’ through a large hatch. They can be towed by a large van or lorry.

[Shane Drew]

I’d skip the 651 clear as it has no UV inhibitors. See if your supplier with throw some digital laminate your way, all the clear will do is give a better gloss, but will have no impact on reducing the fade.

Sounds like a plan tho mate, all the best

[Gareth.Lewis]

Aha!

Looks like I’ll be placing an order for some with said supplier!

Time for some ‘material’ compensation methinks!