-
Can I have some advice please?
Hello all, another lovely day here (bit windy though).
I have been asked by my customer to provide foam pvc boards that he wants glued and screwed to marine ply, which itself is bolted to a steel ‘L shaped’ frame. I want to suggest to him that he has ‘dibond’ screwed directly to the frame with no need for the marine ply behind (to avoid the ‘chesterfield sofa’ effect that would probably occur with the foam pvc method). Am I right to do this? Will the dibond be strong enough to hold with nothing behind it. (The steel frame sticks out about 2 feet from the wall behind it and is 20 feet by 8 feet in size with very few strengthening pieces running through the middle). Would a few extra strengthening strips of steel be the answer? I am mostly worried about the wind from behind the boards pushing them through the screws. Washers may be the answer there.
I should know the answer to this after so long in the business but the safety issue is making me more than a bit nervous……
Any ideas would be greatly received. Thanks in advance.
Gareth
-
16 Replies
-
I guess that’s no then.
Suppose I shouldn’t ask such stupid questions.
Then maybe I might get a reply.
Or maybe I should start helping out more.
Sorry if I’m always asking.
Boo hoo hoo.
Look I’m crying now.
And I’ve got a bad knee.
(this isn’t working for you is it?)
-
Evening Gareth,
There, There mate it’s all right no need to cry. I hope it’s the knee thing and not the feeling unloved bit making those tears.If hes supply the ply and he’s happy then your quote for foamex will be more pleasing to his wallet I guess. It would be alot cheaper with the thickness of the ply backing to have thinner foam and no wind issues. Diabond on it’s own with your peace of mind with health and safety would have to be of a good thickness and 20 x 8 foot would come in pretty dear. One of those as long as the customer is happy senarios I suppose.
Good luck mate and chin up.
Regards
Steve -
I think your advice of opting for dibond is the way to go. the foamex, as you have said, will swell and look like puff pastry in a matter of weeks. it will eventually crack, split and parts fall away over time. it will discolour with dirt (if white)… if its a warm colour like yellow, red etc it will fade to pink.
4 sheets of 3mm x 10’x5′ running vertical, (cut to 8ft’) will do the whole job.
next comes the backing… if steel frame only, it would need a vertical bar/strap running every 5ft to catch each section of dibond. i would also suggest one running the length of the sign in the middle.
i would fix it with tech-screws with a tight closed thread for the steel frame. they come with rubber and metal washers that allow a bit of give in high winds. a simple rivette head may tear through the dibond in high winds.
backing the whole thing with plywood will give more strength to the sign but you will have to fix that properly in the first place then the dibond on top. it probably will give you a flatter surface to fix the dibond to unless the frame has been constructed nice and square.personally, i would go for a 2mm aluminum face tech-screwed or riveted to the steel frame with properly spaced supports like i mentioned above. white factory painted aluminum is only about £45 per 8×4…
hope this helps a bit…
-
Thank you both very much!
I’m sold on the ‘dibond’ which, if it succeeds in staying put, will make me and my business look better to other prospective customers in the long run. Better than a cheaper but wobbly foamex sign.
I just hope I get the order….
ps my knee has stopped hurting now.
-
It depends on how you much your budget is, 10mm foamex mounted on a frame with a 4×4 framework would be fine, with dibond or foamex, I would use 8×4 sheets, fixed around the outer edges with screws, and joining edges (suitably cleaned) with vhb tape.
I have never known foamex to swell like puff pastry though!
If you put a little extra time and thought into either material you could do the job without any fixings showing, but a bit of extra cost for the customer.
the ideal solution would not to use panels, but a one piece substrata with no joins, again budget dictates
Peter
Peter
-
quote Robert Lambie:the foamex, as you have said, will swell and look like puff pastry in a matter of weeks. it will eventually crack, split and parts fall away over time. it will discolour with dirt (if white)… if its a warm colour like yellow, red etc it will fade to pink.Hi Rob
This comment makes me shake in my boots, I have used Forex (Europoints name for Foamex) for a few signs outdoors as I was told it is a long term exterior board. I have obviously also told my customer it is a long term material. I know it is not the best to use and I know how much you hate it but are these comments from experience or just an opinion.
As a new business I would hate for my signs to start failing and ruin any reputation I have started to build 😕
cheers
Warren
-
I wouldn’t worry Warren. Forrex is Fine, but larger signs need to be fitted using signtrim to avoid buckling in the sun (as you probably know).
Rob’s just biased 😛
-
I’ve used 10mm expanded PVC foamboard in the past, and it did swell in the constant heat we have here over summer. It was my own sign, and I believed the sales guy when he told me it was suitable for longterm outdoor use. It was installed by a professional installer, and he warned me it would not do for the long term. 3 or 4mm foamboard will do the same, only quicker. The colours are not UV either (here at least) so they fade in about 12 months here.
I’d certainly go the dibond route too, or one of the cheaper dibond clones. Dibond has a 10 year outdoor warranty here, but the clones only have a 5 year warranty. Thats the only thing to be sure you consider… you do get what you pay for I’m afraid.
Hope the knee is better mate :lol1:
-
Warren
Forex is not Europoints name for foamex, Forex is the original foamboard & then you have cheaper alternatives. Europoint sell Ability brand as well about half the price but quality not as good for long term exterior work.Kev
-
So how long would 5mm Forex (from Europint) last outdoors?
I think I need to give them a quick call 😕
cheers
Warren
-
Forex, foamex, foamalux, foam pvc. Is there an industry standard name for this type of product?
Thanks Shane, the knee is fine. I’ll consider the ‘dibond’ versus clone life expectancy when pricing. This is one of those ‘you get what you pay for’ situations again.
Warren,
I always thought the ‘gloss’ foam pvc was much better than the matt stuff for keeping its colour etc but I could be wrong. Don’t tell anyone but I’ve even flood coated white matt foam pvc board with white vinyl to get over a ‘matching’ crisis (shh). Only on a v. small sign board though.Cheers all,
Gareth
-
quote Kevin Flowers:Warren
Forex is not Europoints name for foamex, Forex is the original foamboard & then you have cheaper alternatives. Europoint sell Ability brand as well about half the price but quality not as good for long term exterior work.Kev
Forex is the brand name for the ePVC made by the manufacturers of Dibond (Alcan?)
Its very hard to cut compared to the cheaper foamboards. More a plasticy feel than a foamy feel. Sorry for the technical terms . 😳
-
. (deleted, moved to correct forum)
-
Gareth, I would opt for 4mm at the sizes you are talking about,
it would also be a bit prudent to start a new topic ref price in the members only topics,not many people like to give out prices to all and sundry 😉
Peter
-
Ok, thankyou Peter, will do…….
-
I HAVE ONLY USED DIBOND ONCE AS I FOUND IT VERY DIFFICULT TO CUT, WE USUALLY USE ALUPANEL AS IT AS GOT A RUBBER INSERT AND IS MUCH EASIER TO TRIM. I DONT THINK YOU WOULD HAVE ANY PROBLEMS WITH SERIOUS MOVEMENT IF YOU SCREW IT UP. I TO WOULD BE WORRIED ABOUT A 20FT FIXING, REALLY THE FITTING OF THIS IS REALLY A JOB FOR A CIVILS COMPANY, I SEEN A COMPANY FITTING A SIGN TODAY FOR A PC WORLD STORE AND YOU SHOULD SEE THE FRAME WORK THEY HAVE BOLTED ON.
IF YOU HAVE GO A SECURE FRAME, I WOULD SUGGEST YOU DRILL STRAIGHT THROUGH THE WHOLE LOT AND USE COACH BOLTS AND PUT 2 NYLOCKS ON THE BACK RATHER THAN USING GLUE AND SELF TAPPING SCREWS.
I HOPE THIS HELPS
Log in to reply.
